***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

I get that perspective but as an american
i have the belief that our government can literally make anything happen if they want to bad enough. i think there is not a big enough incentive to do that

i have the belief that i can have a threesome with sydney Sweeney and Meg the stallion by the end of 2025.

doesn't make it true.

there isn't a incentive because I/P while tragic and sad, is fundamentally not that important to most americans.

 

[BranchLifestyle]

Interesting, "Shut up and sing" lol.

But when clown *** baseball players were doing the Trump "assassination" fist, they were being patriots.

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

i have the belief that i can have a threesome with sydney Sweeney and Meg the stallion by the end of 2025.

doesn't make it true.

there isn't a incentive because I/P while tragic and sad, is fundamentally not that important to most americans.

bolded for da truth

sidenote im a little dissapointed you don't think u can pull sweetcheeks and meggy

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I disagree. Iran and the US have a major influence here.

If Gaza and the West Bank can be governed by a democratic ideology (not the U.S or Israel) that'll lead to peace.

Leaders changing can help temporarily. Ideologies need to change for permanent peace.

Iran of course has lots of influence.

USA influence is overrated. Netanyahu's coalition has chose to align Israel with the republican party.

Democratic president doesn't have that much influence over him.

 

[daruma]

 

[BranchLifestyle]

They aren't beating the weirdo allegations.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I disagree. Iran and the US have a major influence here.

If Gaza and the West Bank can be governed by a democratic ideology (not the U.S or Israel) that'll lead to peace.

Leaders changing can help temporarily. Ideologies need to change for permanent peace.

You are including the extremists on the Israeli side in this as well right?

Which includes the current Prime Minister.

Because they sabotage effort to move toward any sort of peaceful resolution constantly, and constantly inflame tensions.

 

[Platinum State]

They seem to have raised plenty of money. I wonder where it’s going?

Yeah its pretty obvious he knows he's gonna lose so why waste the money on ads when he can pocket it all. The Trump family way

 

[freeze]

 

[ballinsam23]

You are including the extremists on the Israeli side in this as well right?

Which includes the current Prime Minister.

Because they sabotage effort to move toward any sort of peaceful resolution constantly, and constantly inflame tensions.

How many peace treaties have been signed already? Different leaders in all of them.

Camp David Accords
Madrid Peace Conferences
Oslo Accords
Gaza-Jericho Agreement
Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty
Oslo II Accords
Failed Camp David Summit

It's almost been 100 years. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi peace treaties can last.

Why cant any of the ones with the Palestinians last?

 

[aepps20]

This guy ain't a real conservative. Looking for outs instead of telling his kids to work harder. Don't have kids you can't support is what this clown would say to others

 

[RustyShackleford]

I didn’t hear what the exact chant was, but my broader point is that a large swath of these « Uncommitted » voters are possible Dem voters

Ok, and Harris will have to work for their vote as best she can

I don't think Harris allowing these protestors to disrupt and shut her speeches is beneficial to anyone

If these are folks who historically vote Dem, asking for the same energy for a party that you def won’t vote for instead of trying to push a party that you could actually vote doesn’t make any sense to me.

If I remember correctly Dems winning such a high share of the Arab Muslim vote is a relatively new thing (happening post 2000) and that it has been propped up by the GOP's bigotry.

Also, without the situation in Gaza happening, Trump was probably going a bigger vote share this time around. These communities are not all Muslim, are anti-abortion generally, and anti-LGBTQ politics have taken root.



So these uncommitted voters only have the power to tank the Dems if the election is razor thin. If Harris can replicate Biden's numbers in other parts of the state, she still wins without these voters.

I sympathize with the protestors (the vast majority calling for a ceasefire not the crazies doing and saying dumb ****) because they are on the right side of the argument morally.

Their is only one political party even remotely sympathetic to their argument.

And for many reasons the Dems are not doing what they do sometimes and spend political capital on something that has little to negative political upside for moral reasons. I understand why this would piss them off.

They clearly don't have the numbers to swing the Dem's position.

So because they don't have the numbers now, the hope seems to be that hopefully their votes can cost the Dems the election, inflict all sort of lasting damage to the country, and members of the Dem coalition, so then the whole Democratic Party will have no choice but to do what they want? Seems like that is the plan to me.

Basically saying "do what we want, or we screw everyone over". I get it is out of desperation for many people, but many others that will be put in danger by another Trump presidency we it for what it is, a threat, a political hostage negotiation with the party.

So of course, it is pissing people off. People that otherwise agree with them and even prefer the change.

Like these protestors are cool yelling down Harris because they feel safe doing so. Tacitly concede the GOP is at minimum just as bad and more dangerous to their personal safety.

However, they then turnaround and act cool with them coming back in power, and the consequences that will have for million of other marginalized people, including residents of Gaza. Yet they don't expect at some point the rest of the Dem coalition won't get upset with this plan?

I think it would be expected they are getting the type of energy they are getting right now. Everyone is scared and desperate.

Harris herself just kept it real with them

 

[RustyShackleford]

How many peace treaties have been signed already? Different leaders in all of them.

Camp David Accords
Madrid Peace Conferences
Oslo Accords
Gaza-Jericho Agreement
Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty
Oslo II Accords
Failed Camp David Summit

It's almost been 100 years. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi peace treaties can last.

Why cant any of the ones with the Palestinians last?

When we were inching toward some sort of peace deal in the 90s.

Someone got assassinated, and it killed the progress in its tracks.

Answer me this:

Who died?

Who killed them?

And what was their political ideology?

Hmm

-No reasonable person looks at the Palestinian/Israel situation and thinks it is only one side sabotages any advancement towards a better situation.

Only partisans do.

 

[dacomeup]

Look at actions of the left

- they go the Biden replacement they wanted
- They got the VP pick they wanted
- Kamala met with Palestinian activists before the event


And they STILL did disruptive negative protests.
And you want Kamala to capitulate MORE?

Be serious, a line has to be drawn somewhere. It's smart of Kamala to draw it here, and make the stakes of the election clear.

you’re conflating the protestors with “the left”, which I absolutely disagree with

 

[RustyShackleford]

Bill Clinton, in 2014....

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/bill-clinton-benjamin-netanyahu-110997

Former President Bill Clinton says he agrees that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is “not the guy” for a peace deal.



A C-SPAN video — first reported by Israeli newspaper Haaretz — shows the 42nd president at Sen. Tom Harkin’s Iowa steak fry Sunday speaking with an individual along a rope line.

“Netanyahu himself said that he does not want peace. If we don’t force him to make peace, we will not have peace,” the man told Clinton in the video.

“First of all, I agree with that. But in 2000, [former Israeli Prime Minister] Ehud Barak, I got him to agree to something that I’m not sure I could have gotten [former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin to agree to, and Rabin was murdered for giving land to the Palestinians,” Clinton responded, referring to Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts he brokered during his administration.

The road to lasting peace will be long, hard, expensive, and still contain flare ups of violence

But anyone acting like the current Israeli government is interested in that are neither delusional, bias, or simply just not like Palestinians

So spare me the ********

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

When we were inching toward some sort of peace deal in the 90s.

Someone got assassinated, and it killed the progress in its tracks.

Answer me this:

Who died?

Who killed them?

And what was their political ideology?

Hmm

-No reasonable person looks at the Palestinian/Israel situation and thinks it is only one side sabotages any advancement towards a better situation.

Only partisans do.

!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dacomeup]

I don't think Harris allowing these protestors to disrupt and shut her speeches is beneficial to anyone

I don’t think that’s what I’m suggesting here either though

If I remember correctly Dems winning such a high share of the Arab Muslim vote is a relatively new thing (happening post 2000) and that it has been propped up by the GOP's bigotry.

5 election cycles is a long time in politics IMO. Historically might’ve not been the best word to use, but they’ve been a part of the coalition

Also, without the situation in Gaza happening, Trump was probably going a bigger vote share this time around. These communities are not all Muslim, are anti-abortion generally, and anti-LGBTQ politics have taken root.

Agreed

There is only one political party even remotely sympathetic to their argument.

Yea, this is pretty much why I think the argument that they should be protesting Trump is idiotic. It literally makes no sense.

I think that we largely agree on the results. I’m unclear on whether they can tank the election, if Kamala can actually will be able to replicate Biden’s numbers without needing them, etc. I just don’t think that “shut up unless you want Trump to win” is the best way to handle that. We can disagree.

 

[ballinsam23]

When we were inching toward some sort of peace deal in the 90s.

Someone got assassinated, and it killed the progress in its tracks.

Answer me this:

Who died?

Who killed them?

And what was their political ideology?

Hmm

-No reasonable person looks at the Palestinian/Israel situation and thinks it is only one side sabotages any advancement towards a better situation.

Only partisans do.

The peace treaty in the 90s didnt last because members of the PLO still believed in terrorist activities. Arafat had how many assassination attempts against him? From the Israelis and PLO.

Arafat would've went through with the two state solution if his life didnt depend on it. Atleast he came to the table with something realistic.

Hamas and PIJ will not agree to any diplomatic terms. Even if Bibi didnt exist. Their ideology is an islamic state and the destruction of Israel.

 

[Mark Antony]

Actually surprised, they asked him a real question. Unfortunately for him all he got was "drill baby drill! ChIna!". Hope telling his kids that will be enough.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The peace treaty in the 90s didnt last because members of the PLO still believed in terrorist activities. Arafat had how many assassination attempts against him? From the Israelis and PLO.

Arafat would've went through with the two state solution if his life didnt depend on it. Atleast he came to the table with something realistic.

Hamas and PIJ would not agree to any diplomatic terms. Even if Bibi didnt exist. Their ideology is an islamic state and the destruction of Israel.

You didn't answer my question

In fact. If your response is just a whataboutism trying to place all the blame on the Palestinians because you refuse to acknowledge that a ultra right wing Israeli extremist killed the Israeli PM because he dared try to work towards a peace resolution to the conflict.

You are tacitly proving my point

And exposing how bias and unreasonable you are

 

[RustyShackleford]

Reasonable people: I think some people both sides share some

ballinsam23 : No, it is the Palestinians fault

Reasonable people: The right wing leaders of Hamas and Israel constantly make the situation worse

ballinsam23 : No, it is the Palestinians fault

Reasonable people: Both sides

ballinsam23 : No, Palestinians and Iran have done all this bad stuff, they want to wipe out Jews. It is their fault there is not peace and never be.

Reasonable people: What about the settlements, murdering thousands of innocent people, and political assassinations?

ballinsam23 :

 

[ballinsam23]

You didn't answer my question

In fact. If your response is just a whataboutism trying to place all the blame on the Palestinians because you refuse to acknowledge that a ultra right wing Israeli extremist killed the Israeli PM because he dared try to work towards a peace resolution to the conflict.

You are tacitly proving my point

And exposing how bias and unreasonable you are

When Jordan signed the peace treaty with Israel their own killed their prime minister for it too.

There are extremists in every government, every religion, every race. Regardless of the leader.

We can go back and forth about biasness forever. I'm the only Jew posting here. Why dont you ask how unreasonable and bias the Pro-Hamas posters are.

None of them here condemn Hamas's actions.

You need two to tango. I only place blame on Iran and Hamas, not the Palestinians. I place blame on Bibi for making it worse.

If the majority of Palestinians share their views then I'm sorry there wont ever be lasting peace.

 

[aepps20]

Actually surprised, they asked him a real question. Unfortunately for him all he got was "drill baby drill! ChIna!". Hope telling his kids that will be enough.

Should've told him to pull himself up by his straps

 

[Belgium]

In any case, running a de facto apartheid state and constantly encroaching further and further on the Palestinians' small territory with the illegal settlements is of course going to result in breeding terrorism.
Hamas is a massive detriment to progress for the Palestinians but maybe if the Palestinians weren't being treated as subhuman, Hamas wouldn't have sprouted into what it is today.
That's why Hamas' leadership cheers on the slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians, because it strengthens radicalization and recruitment.

 

[sonoftony]

Trump got low energy in this presser