***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

I'm imaging these guys at the other trump sites find active online communities that lean liberal and then deploy someone to do what they can. Rusty was particularly egregious so they have sent their elite / special ops unit to see what he can accomplish.

I've BEEN HERE THE ENTIRE TIME FAM. I told the LIBBIES THE SQUAD WOULD GET HERE BUT THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE ME

 

[Belgium]

It's tough. The issue with the republican party is that the far right make it difficult. Everyone has a line in the sand. I think something will get pushed through, it has to. Obamacare is unsustainable as it is. Trump needs this to pass for his tax reform. The issue is who should pay for the insurance. Gotta change the risk pools. Make it like car insurance and call it a day.

Well the fundamental problem is that healthcare is not universally seen as a basic human right in the US. Plain and simple, it is a for-profit business.

I could go ask our furthest right party and ask them if our healthcare system (universal multipayer, many public and private insurance options) is a basic human right and they'll say yes, of course.

The US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other top nation. All of those have vastly superior healthcare systems. They spend less, and get significantly better care for the people out of it.

Obamacare has done some very positive things, but it is also far removed from an ideal healthcare system. That much is obvious.

However the AHCA as I last saw the Senate version is just another big step backwards instead of forward.

The idea of single-payer healthcare is being heralded on some parts of the left as the only step forward but personally I would disagree there. There's only very few countries with true single-payer healthcare systems. It's a good system but not necessarily the only option. Given the US' views on healthcare, perhaps a universal multipayer healthcare system would be more realistic like the ones you see in mainland Europe, my country for example.

Another problem is the astronomically high medical costs, which are again significantly higher than any of the other top nations.

Over here we artificially lower medical costs. I'm not entirely sure of the exact mechanism used to do so, probably simple price caps and I believe insurance companies and subsidies also play a role, but it prevents hospitals from charging you outrageous medical costs for the most part.

Let me give you a few examples. As you may have read earlier, I have been chronically ill for ~4 years now and still don't have a diagnosis. As you can imagine I get all sorts of testing done. I've had more MRI's and CT scans than I can count, 2 DNA tests, a muscle biopsy, ... and the list goes on.

The bills that eventually land at my doorstep are relatively insignificant. For example, if I choose not to invoke my insurance I pay €12 out of pocket for an MRI. If I do use my insurance, I pay the €12 and my insurer will deposit most of that amount back in my bank account at a later date. In my case my coverage is 100% so all my bills are paid back in full.

I'll add another example of a very complex surgery I required several years ago. I was billed €4400 for that, which is again relatively inexpensive given the procedure but at the time our financial situation wasn't very good and neither was our simple insurance plan. The surgery was rather unexpected.

I'll not go into too many details but basically I had a congenital lung defect called intralobary pulmonary sequestration. It was discovered when I randommly started coughing up giant blood clots in class and later vomiting a bunch of dried blood. It turned out I had an extra major artery that branched off from the top of my aorta into smaller vessels in most of the bottom half of my right lung. This extra artery was roughly the same size as my aorta and due to high pressure going into those small vessels in the lung, the blood vessel gained a small tear and started hemorrhaging into my lung. Due to the very complex nature of my case, the hospital contacted our country's leading expert on that particular condition and ordered him to fly back to the country from an international congress to perform the surgery on me. There was another top lung surgeon on standby for emergency surgery in case the hemorrhaging went out of control but luckily that wasn't necessary and the 2 surgeons performed the surgery together when he was back in the country. It took about 4 hours and half of my right lung was removed. I then remained in the hospital for 4-5 days if I recall correctly in a private room, because I was in immense pain from the chest tube between my ribs. I was pumped full of all kinds of pain medication, anti-emetics, ... and required scans of my lungs every day. I also had additional scans when my right arm became temporarily paralyzed but it turned out it was just because I was moving around too much and my epidural had shifted.

Long story short, very complex condition, 4-5 days hospital stay, 2 top surgeons doing the ~4 hour surgery, more medication than I can count in the next few days after coming out of surgery, ...

And the bill for all that was just €4400. Think about that for a second. If I had better insurance at the time I could have reduced that €4400 to €1500 or less. If I had the 100% coverage I do now I wouldn't have had to pay anything.

Now imagine what kind of bill you'd get in the US based on the information I just gave you. I think you know the answer will be several tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[Mark Antony]

I love how dude's complaints mirror Trump surrogates

"Why are we talking about Russia, it is a non story, let's talk about healthcare and tax reform, two issues the President and people are about"

Ninja was parroting this months ago as if the Ball isn't their court. Still no positive movement on that end.

 

[whywesteppin]

Belgium , slightly off-topic, but did your other symptoms (fatigue, pain, etc.) all start after your lung surgery? Or were they preexisting?

 

[dwalk31]

I particularly enjoyed the "I work at Wendy's" baiting so he could force some libbie low income jokes and go ha! Glad no one bit. I feel like he's another one of these dudes from some other Trump site that obsesses over this thread and Rusty. Same tactics.

How is Wendy's a joke? I'm lost

 

[Mark Antony]

Good, stay that way.

 

[rillo561]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I particularly enjoyed the "I work at Wendy's" baiting so he could force some libbie low income jokes and go ha! Glad no one bit. I feel like he's another one of these dudes from some other Trump site that obsesses over this thread and Rusty. Same tactics.

How is Wendy's a joke? I'm lost

Is playing dumb your go to defense

 

[appleheaddmv]

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!!! THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!! Also, Y2K. It has been proven that Russia, and other countries attempt to interfere in every election. At the time they interfered in this one Obama was president and stated that there was no rigging and the election was fair. After Hillary lost, this Russian narrative emerged. The issue is not whether Russia did it. The issue is whether Trump and/or his team colluded with them. And Russia interference is the problem with the country? There's a big world out there fam, travel more.

pure ignorance my dude... pure ignorance... if u think threatening this countries democracy is a small thing and not a big deal then more power too you slim... and I don't recall Obama ever sayin what you said he said... I read that he was indeed informed that the Russians were attempting to influence the election last summer... he held back the info because he didn't want to be seen as trying to throw shade on ole Orange-face... I for one wish he would've put it out there back then...but you are living in a bubble slim... once again, people who try to reason like you have been doing is an issue for real... smh

 

[whywesteppin]

Nobody's playing.


We're all seriuos in here.

 

[dwalk31]

@Colombia you make valid points. Strictly speaking, Healthcare is not a fundamental or basic human right. Even if it was, the real issue is who should have to pay for it. I think everyone agrees that people deserve access to affordable healthcare. Personally I feel that creating more competition will drive down the prices to make this possible. Taxing other Americans, as the ACA did is unsustainable. It also creates division in the country which leads to the nasty partisan politics we have currently.

 

[Belgium]

@Colombia, slightly off-topic, but did your other symptoms (fatigue, pain, etc.) all start after your lung surgery? Or were they preexisting?

I'm trying to recall the exact moment it started but it was somewhere within 5-8 months after the surgery, just as I was recovering well.

Started with minor pains in both my lower legs that weren't really bothersome at first but they wouldn't go away despite various medications. Over time it grew consistently worse and I was prescribed opiate painkillers as it became rather unbearable. The disease then later progressed into extreme fatigue and muscle cramps in my legs that ultimately prevented me from being able to ride my bicycle for more than a few minutes without my legs just giving up.

Later this symptom spread to my arms and then through my entire body. If I went to a bar with friends, I'd be sore for 5-7 days from head to toe.

Household tasks became a struggle as I'd get muscle cramps everywhere doing something as simple as showering.

I also have dozens of stretch marks on my body despite no major changes in my weight when they started appearing. Both my thighs are literally full of them, I have some on the inside of my right knee, 4 major ones on my abdomen, a couple small ones on my chest, a whole bunch of the inside of both my biceps

I've also been experiencing strange growth in my legs and arms that makes no sense considering my condition. My calves appear quite muscular and feel rock solid but a scan showed that the muscle appeared to be filled with some kind of fluid. The same appears to be happening to my arms, my triceps in particular.

I can do a little bit more activity now thanks to the hormone treatment but there's no way my arms should look anywhere remotely close to this.

The doctors noted that my arms appeared to be inconsistent with my condition over a year ago but the rapid growth has been prettty recent.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Looking ripped brah.[emoji]128525[/emoji]

 

[dwalk31]

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!!! THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!! Also, Y2K. It has been proven that Russia, and other countries attempt to interfere in every election. At the time they interfered in this one Obama was president and stated that there was no rigging and the election was fair. After Hillary lost, this Russian narrative emerged. The issue is not whether Russia did it. The issue is whether Trump and/or his team colluded with them. And Russia interference is the problem with the country? There's a big world out there fam, travel more.

pure ignorance my dude... pure ignorance... if u think threatening this countries democracy is a small thing and not a big deal then more power too you slim... and I don't recall Obama ever sayin what you said he said... I read that he was indeed informed that the Russians were attempting to influence the election last summer... he held back the info because he didn't want to be seen as trying to throw shade on ole Orange-face... I for one wish he would've put it out there back then...but you are living in a bubble slim... once again, people who try to reason like you have been doing is an issue for real... smh

Does that refresh your memory at all?

 

[wavycrocket]

Damn. Belgium rocked up. Looking like Comrad Vlad out there in the wilderness

 

[appleheaddmv]

Does that refresh your memory at all?

this could've been before he was privy to the Russian hacks... this doesn't confirm anything... your man Orange Face was the one screaming that the election was being rigged in the beginning anyway... he was indeed right... the Russians were the ones doing the rigging in his favor... and he knew it... smh... just make sure you still posting in this thread when the FBI investigation is all done... imma take pleasure in laughing at your ignant ***... LOL...

 

[Nike Jordan]

Just remember, there's people on both sides of this:



btw, it's been really windy this morning.

Spoiler

"I wouldn't be surprised" =/= "it's probably true." Don't put words in my mouth, ******* clown.

 

[dwalk31]

Your point on healthcare is wrong too.

Most people, even ones that get insurance through an employer, have their health insurance cost subsidized by the Federal government, that probably includes you. So this talking point of who is gonna pay for it is nonsense.

No one is gonna engage with you seriously if you have already shown to be willing to be dense, deflect, use starwmen, when someone tears apart your argument.

Why should anyone bother.

What does this have to do with my point? What does insurance from your employer have to do with the insurance from exchanges under the ACA? Saying most employers have insurance subsidized by the federal government is a non-issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the current healthcare debate. There is a tax penalty for not having insurance under the current plan. Do you think that's ok? If healthcare is a fundamental right, shouldn't there also be a fundamental right NOT to buy insurance?

 

[RustyShackleford]

@Colombia you make valid points. Strictly speaking, Healthcare is not a fundamental or basic human right. Even if it was, the real issue is who should have to pay for it. I think everyone agrees that people deserve access to affordable healthcare. Personally I feel that creating more competition will drive down the prices to make this possible. Taxing other Americans, as the ACA did is unsustainable. It also creates division in the country which leads to the nasty partisan politics we have currently.

So we should get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Tri-care, and all employer subsidies if that is your logic

Stop acting like the ACA does something out of the ordinary.

And healthcare is a human right. And in America good healthcare should be a public good.

 

[Mark Antony]

Your point on healthcare is wrong too.

Most people, even ones that get insurance through an employer, have their health insurance cost subsidized by the Federal government, that probably includes you. So this talking point of who is gonna pay for it is nonsense.

No one is gonna engage with you seriously if you have already shown to be willing to be dense, deflect, use starwmen, when someone tears apart your argument.

Why should anyone bother.

What does this have to do with my point? What does insurance from your employer have to do with the insurance from exchanges under the ACA? Saying most employers have insurance subsidized by the federal government is a non-issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the current healthcare debate. There is a tax penalty for not having insurance under the current plan. Do you think that's ok? If healthcare is a fundamental right, shouldn't there also be a fundamental right NOT to buy insurance?

Wait, everyone clearly saw this man ask who's gonna pay for it and why should other Americans pay for it right? Americans are already paying for other Americans health insurance is the point.

It's clear it's time to ignore you now.

 

[noskey]

Guy either knows nothing about the healthcare debate in this country, or he's purposely feigning ignorance. Can't even throw on my Make America Coal Again hat for this, da ignorance is too strong.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Your point on healthcare is wrong too.

Most people, even ones that get insurance through an employer, have their health insurance cost subsidized by the Federal government, that probably includes you. So this talking point of who is gonna pay for it is nonsense.

No one is gonna engage with you seriously if you have already shown to be willing to be dense, deflect, use starwmen, when someone tears apart your argument.

Why should anyone bother.

What does this have to do with my point? What does insurance from your employer have to do with the insurance from exchanges under the ACA? Saying most employers have insurance subsidized by the federal government is a non-issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the current healthcare debate. There is a tax penalty for not having insurance under the current plan. Do you think that's ok? If healthcare is a fundamental right, shouldn't there also be a fundamental right NOT to buy insurance?

My point is that you are full of it if you complain about one person being subsidized but overlook the fact nearly all American have their health insurance subsidized

And you need a mandate for a universal system to work. If there is not one it leads to free riding.

 

[whywesteppin]

That's interesting. Thanks for the info. I feel like we've already talked about this some, but it sounds like the surgery and recovery/treatment afterward could have triggered or uncovered some autoimmune process. I hope they find something that helps you out.

Good luck, comrade.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Guy either knows nothing about the healthcare debate in this country, or he's purposely feigning ignorance. Can't even throw on my Make America Coal Again hat for this, da ignorance is too strong.

He clearly knows nothing about the economics of the subject.

So he is relying on "what is right what is wrong" arguments

 

[rillo561]

What does this have to do with my point? What does insurance from your employer have to do with the insurance from exchanges under the ACA? Saying most employers have insurance subsidized by the federal government is a non-issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the current healthcare debate.

The fact that you took the time to write I'm this out, pretty much solidifies you have no clue what you're talking about. Just stop.