***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[harlemtothebronx]

.

 

[dwalk31]

I'm not quiet at all; I'm engaging. There is no game. A young lady lost her life due to idiots who believe they are superior based on the color of their skin. It is indefensible. As a nation we need to re-evaluate whether large groups of these hate-filled rioters should be allowed to gather for a protest in the first place.

 

[iamdef]

Should people be free to spew hateful, racist rhetoric and ideology in a provocative manner?

They have that freedom. Does that freedom to spew that mess eliminate people's almost natural reaction to become angry and violent against them?

 

[AEA18]

Chill Rusty, before ninja gets Meth in here to get us all back in line.

 

[iamdef]

There's nothing to evaluate. You have freedom to speak. That freedom does not mean that your words won't anger people to the point they want to lay hands on you....the end

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I'm not quiet at all; I'm engaging. There is no game. A young lady lost her life due to idiots who believe they are superior based on the color of their skin. It is indefensible. As a nation we need to re-evaluate whether large groups of these hate-filled rioters should be allowed to gather for a protest in the first place.

Wasn't directed at you. I quoted ninjahood, but thought better of it. I don't want to slow down the thread with a back and forth about the merits of reporting posts.

 

[dwalk31]

They have that freedom. Does that freedom to spew that mess eliminate people's almost natural reaction to become angry and violent against them?

That's exactly my point. Since that is the natural reaction, perhaps they shouldn't have that freedom to spew the nonsense in the first place.

 

[everysingletime]

Trump is just really really stupid isn't he lmao

Can't believe he retweeted a cartoon of a CNN reporter getting run over

He deleted it but not before it got out there and passed around

 

[dwalk31]

There's nothing to evaluate. You have freedom to speak. That freedom does not mean that your words won't anger people to the point they want to lay hands on you....the end

I'm saying that I think that it is time for this country to really re-evaluate what is considered "protected speech."

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I'm not quiet at all; I'm engaging. There is no game. A young lady lost her life due to idiots who believe they are superior based on the color of their skin. It is indefensible. As a nation we need to re-evaluate whether large groups of these hate-filled rioters should be allowed to gather for a protest in the first place.

They are already not allowed to protest in such a fashion as to provoke violence. It's why their permit was revoked and they were told to go home.

The first amendment doesn't need to be changed, people just need to learn that freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequences and that inciting violence or theoretically yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre is not protected by freedom of speech.

I pray that some of you take the time to actually educate yourselves on things like law and policy and especially the constitution if you want to engage in such a discussion.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

i am first generation american, from a german mother. I have spent a good amount of time over there, and my sister lived there for a while. And as i said before, the vast majority of germans do not **** with the nazi ********. They do not take it lightly, and are very aware of the past.

On another note, what is it with these right wingers crying about antifa? I havent heard about them until recently, are these people really out here causing problems in large numbers or is it just some small fringe group that the right wingers like to point at and say 'see liberals are violent'?

Antifas whole thing is to disrupt and cause problems. Usually wearing all black including black masks. Mostly white males teen to 30s. First time they really caught coverage was the Ferguson protests.

They actually hate conservatives and hate liberals but are considered very far left. Essentially the alt-left I guess and are considering themselves at war with the order + the far right. They show up and either sides events with the sole purpose of disrupting and causing destruction. They are a means of confusing people, they show up and cause damage and it's blamed on whoever is there protesting. Usually the first ones to toss a brick through a window or start a fire.

There's video of them going to events and immediately smashing business windows etc. They run in groups and will beat the brakes off anyone who stands in their way with no hesitation.

New age anarchists for the most part.

 

[everysingletime]

Yea you might be giving the government too much power if you allow them to restrict free speech/censor ppl.

 

[AEA18]

Trump is just really really stupid isn't he lmao

Can't believe he retweeted a cartoon of a CNN reporter getting run over

He deleted it but not before it got out there and passed around

It's really funny that he still hasn't learned how twitter/internet works.

He's going to have that Tucker Carlson face once he finds out what a screenshot is

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I'm saying that I think that it is time for this country to really re-evaluate what is considered "protected speech."

The thing with protesting is it's not supposed to be what the government allows etc

Trying to suppress who can protest and why will very very quickly worsen the situation. It's unavoidable.

 

[iamdef]

That's exactly my point. Since that is the natural reaction, perhaps they shouldn't have that freedom to spew the nonsense in the first place.

I'm saying that I think that it is time for this country to really re-evaluate what is considered "protected speech."

That's a slippery slope. I "don't mind" if they talk that mess because people should be able to say what they want but we have to educate the public that words have consequences. It's all just words and jokes till somebody hits a hot button.

Not to draw mess but NH is protective of his moms while he also talks about comedians ought to be able to tell whatever joke they want

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Especially considering the deplorables filling this Executive Branch.

 

[Belgium]

I am pretty sure that everyone, in this thread at least, agrees that white supremacy and the KKK and any other racist group is indefensible. Yet, these idiots were given a permit to protest and showed up in riot gear. As a country we need to re-evaluate whether such speech should be permitted in the first place.

Should people be free to spew hateful, racist rhetoric and ideology in a provocative manner?

First of all I do not think everyone here in this thread agrees that white supremacy is indefensible. That's not a reference to you btw, said in

Well the US handles freedom of speech a little differently than us for example. We have specific laws against promoting hate speech and inciting violence for example. Those laws aren't enforced much in the sense of criminal convictions but a neo-nazi rally like in Charlottesvillle with torches, riot gear, ... would almost certainly have been denied on the spot on the basis that that the whole ideology of the rally is based on hate speech and inciting violence. If not immediately on the request, such a rally would've been shut down when it started either way and not abuse such restrictions.

Technically you can sue people calling you racial slurs on social media but any judge won't even bother reading the case before throwing it out in such instances, not that people actually try to do so. It's rare to see a criminal trial with the only charge being hate speech or inciting violence but it has happened. To my recollection those cases were mostly people in high ranking powerful positions, politicians for example.
The US from what I see is built more on the foundation of freedom of speech with as little restrictions as possible. Personally I am in favor of our system with those minor restrictions but I doubt the US as a country would see it that way.

I believe that people should be able to say what they want for the most part, but others also have the right to criticize that speech and "punish" you for it. By that I mean identifying and reporting nazi rally participants to their employers for example. If there is a police officer participating in such a rally, it's important that this is forwarded to the department so ideally they can fire him.
But that's my opinion, I favor our system of minor restrictions because my country has had them for a long time and it's what I'm used to.
The US not only has a different history, but also a different population and views. For that reason I think the 1st amendment should stay as it is right now.

 

[kdawg]

i am first generation american, from a german mother. I have spent a good amount of time over there, and my sister lived there for a while. And as i said before, the vast majority of germans do not **** with the nazi ********. They do not take it lightly, and are very aware of the past.

I think the de-nazification thing is interesting in the context of the American Civil War monuments discussion. It is clearly a part of American history and shouldn't be forgotten - but if you read the code which was drawn up about removing Nazi monuments it makes a lot of sense. Glorifying these generals is not helpful but is different from remembering those who died in conflict. I think I would be in favour of a simlar law in the US where all these monuments were destroyed and laws were passed to prohibit display of the symbols (which are clearly used with racist intent).

And before anyone says - that's different from Isis wiping out cultural artefacts - I'm not saying we should destroy all evidence, we should remember that terrible time and learn lessons from it - but not glorify it and enable fringe groups to use them to promote their hate agenda.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Just put that **** in a museum.

Like how hard is that?

 

[Belgium]

The idea that removing confederate monuments is somehow "erasing history" is just a nonsensical argument. There are no nazi monuments in Germany, yet I'm pretty sure we all know what happened during WW2. Germany doesn't need Hitler or Goebbels monuments in their streets to remind them of what those individuals did.
There's no reason such monuments should have been erected in the first place. They are a symbol of the deep racist hatred of the confederacy, traitors to the Union. Replace them with something different of historical value or simply move them to a museum. Problem solved.

Besides, people can always go to museums or more importantly, read a history book.

 

[nerdistfan]

Bruh said 'disgusting things' and listed Antifa on a Tuesday after a weekend white supremacy rally where a woman was killed by a Neo-Nazi terrorist plowing a vehichle into crowd of non-violent protesters.

You all have a ton of soul searching to do as does everyone else not only complicit in with their heads in the sand, but actually picking a side that isn't against racism and hate.

So because I call the far left scum (they are) you assume I don't think the same of the far right? And that I need to soul search? As if a based, central stance is impossible or something?

 

[rolaholic]

Who cares when we can flood them with sweet libbie tears instead

 

[dwalk31]

They are already not allowed to protest in such a fashion as to provoke violence. It's why their permit was revoked and they were told to go home.

The first amendment doesn't need to be changed, people just need to learn that freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequences and that inciting violence or theoretically yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre is not protected by freedom of speech.

I pray that some of you take the time to actually educate yourselves on things like law and policy and especially the constitution if you want to engage in such a discussion.

I actually know the law. And despite what you may think of it, many forms of disrespectful utterances are ok under the first amendment. You should research the case law on "fighting words." Further, the city was aware that these were racist, hate-filled individuals when they granted them the permit. As a nation we need to re-evaluate whether these individuals should be allowed the right to "protest" in the first place.

 

[dwalk31]

Just put that **** in a museum.

Like how hard is that?

This is the obvious answer, it really isn't that complicated

 

[Belgium]

Who cares when we can flood them with sweet libbie tears

Wants to build an incredibly costly, hard to build and useless wall on the southern border, but doesn't wanna protect the country from flooding with flood-prone infrastructure. Makes sense.