***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Wasn't this one of the reasons Edwin said that if Trump went through with this idea, he would disown him?
 
If Sessions, Steve King, Ann Coulter etc genuinely wanted America to prosper they would drive down to the border, get down on their knees and start begging and pleading for more illegal immigrants to come here.

Contrary to the fairytales these folks have tried to spread, illegal immigrants don't tend to vote. But they do buy a lot of stuff. Trump's rhetoric alone has caused a lot of people to lose interest in immigrating to this country. Not to mention the increased harassment of both legal and illegal immigrants by ICE agents has undermined decades of work by local law enforcement and attorneys general to encourage them to cooperate with the justice system. There are some important reasons we ought to instead be encouraging immigration.

First, the vast majority of the roughly 12 million undocumented who are already here, whether they overstayed visa, came here without getting papers, had some visa or legal issue, whatever - they are still going to be here next year.

They are never going to get rounded up and deported en masse. At most you will see a few hundred thousand deportations per year. And that's even if Trump and Sessions succeed in their plans to waste billions of dollars every year to hire 15,000 new ICE agents, and who knows how many billions more on a wall.

These immigrants will still be here next year, and the year after that, and they'll still be working, earning money, buying products and services from your local businesses, cars, houses, groceries, TVs, computers - these are not destitute people living on the streets or consuming welfare and food stamps. They are consumers with significant purchasing power who don't rely on government assistance. These are exactly the kind of people we need more of in this country.

109 million US citizens receive federal welfare benefits every month. This is excluding US citizens who receive social security, unemployment, veterans benefits, etc (if you add those, the number is 153 million).

Meanwhile, out of 12 million illegal immigrants:

  • 1/3 own their own home and pay property taxes
  • 100% pay municipal, city and state sales taxes on the goods and services they buy every day
  • They buy so much goods and services every year that their spending in the US (even after excluding remittances to family abroad) is directly responsible for generating 5% of all the jobs in the US
  • They are propping up the social security system to some extent as they have paid in $100 billion during the past 10 years, even though they cannot receive any Social Security payments
  • 100% of the 12 million illegal immigrants pay at least the same amount or more federal income taxes every year than Donald Trump paid in 1995
  • Zero illegal immigrants receive food stamps. If you suspect otherwise, I encourage you to take any illegal immigrant down to the food stamp or welfare office and try to get them approved.
  • Zero illegal immigrants receive welfare, Aid for Families with Dependent Children, SNAP, Section 8, etc
  • Even if an illegal immigrant becomes legal resident in the future (e.g., marries US citizen, gets greencard), they cannot apply for welfare, Section 8 or food stamps until they have worked full time for 10 years after becoming legal resident or their spouse can be jailed and the spouse and spouse's family must pay fines.
  • Nearly every kind of immigrant other than asylum refugees are prevented from receiving these kind of benefits for 10 years after obtaining resident permit. This includes F and K visa holders, H1-B, nearly every category. Even their US citizen spouses cannot apply for food stamps or federal benefits until the immigrant has worked full time for 40 quarters (10 years). We should be doubling or tripling the number of H-1Bs, not reducing them.
  • This is quite different from France for example, where refugee applicants receive an allowance of 300 Euros/month, and then if approved for visa get 3 years state financed housing with full welfare benefits.
As for why both illegal immigrants and visa holders in the US work harder than many citizens, many come from countries where there is no safety net. Most didn't come here from France. If there is no welfare, do you imagine everyone starves to death? No, they know how to hustle to earn a living and put food on the table.

In Mexico, China, Vietnam and most other countries, if you don't work, you don't eat and your kids don't eat. You get off the couch, bust your rear and find a job, and if you don't find a job you hustle and make your own job. You cook tamales or pho or dumplings for sale or buy some fruit, candy, flowers, any cheap items wholesale and sell them on the corner.

This basic drive to feed your kids is an incentive that has led to many technological and business innovations during the past 200 years. There are now 109 million US citizens receiving some form of federal welfare every month. The problem is not that they are a drain on our tax dollars, but that many have lost this incentive, and we will never know what amazing things they might have done otherwise.

The rate of new business startups by US citizens has dropped like a rock since 1978 partly due to this lack of incentive, along with millennial generation's aversion to risk, low birth rate (1.84 vs 3.65 in 1960s) and other factors.

Now immigrants both legal and illegal are not only stimulating the economy with their purchases but also carrying the torch for the fading entrepreneurial spirit in our country. As a result:

  • More than half of all US startups worth more than $1 billion were founded by immigrants, collectively worth $168 billion
  • More than 40% of all US Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or children of immigrants, with total revenues of $4.2 trillion and employing more than 10 million people worldwide.
  • Seven of the ten most valuable brands in the world come from companies founded by US immigrants or their children.
Immigrants from many countries tend to share the entrepreneurial perspective which has been part of the GOP platform for years. Trump, Sessions, Bannon, etc have now positioned the GOP as the party that "protects" white people from immigrants by wasting lots of tax dollars on symbolic measures, walls, for-profit detention facilities, hiring 15,000 new headcount ICE agents, limiting and restricting authorized visa holders, etc...ultimately harming our economy in the long term.

America's economic health depends on ever increasing consumption of goods produced by businesses and continual growth of business investment. We rely on the domestic market growing in size, not shrinking. With our declining 1.84 birthrate, unless immigrants continue moving here in great numbers each year, the size of the US population will stop growing and the size of US market will stagnate (fewer US consumers to whom we can sell our products and services), just as this has already occurred in Italy and Japan with devastating effect on the economy.

The more urgent issue however is that thanks to our low fertility rate and advances in medicine, the Social Security worker-to-benefit ratio will drop to 2.1 with unsustainable 50% working age population within a few decades. Only three quick ways to fix this:

  1. raise retirement age;
  2. reduce benefits; or
  3. encourage more immigration. Massive increase in all categories of work visas granted should do the trick. And the process for updating expired (or non-existent) visa ought to be more along the lines of updating your vehicle registration at the DMV.
More background on this for anyone interested:

Click to expand...
 
ksteezy said:
Wasn't this one of the reasons Edwin said that if Trump went through with this idea, he would disown him?
Click to expand...

sonoftony said:
He'll find away to justify it.
Click to expand...

No doubt googling some articles and big words right now, so he can come in here later and

full
 
niketalker23 said:
Latinos gotta blame the Democrats, who decided to put Obamacare on a higher legislative priority for his 1st term and waste political captital to Zilch by da time comprehensive immigration reform could've been a bipartisan layup with moderate Republican chamber of commerce types that wanted cheap labor with Democratic immigration advocacy groups.
Click to expand...

fixed.

now go kick sand b, cuz DACA wouldn't of survived supreme court law suit Constitutionality scrutiny.
 
Dacas done. Very unfair to children brought here without their choice. I dont understand why this country cant solve the immigration crisis . :smh:
 
RustyShackleford said:
On so many levels this DACA things has me incensed.

One area I am not forgetting is all the ****ing left wing protest voters (third party, no vote, Trump voters). Especially the white ones

Like what the hell do you say to a dreamer that is about to have their life destroyed. Huh what? "Bernie would have been better", "The Dem establishment", "They are both bad", "I can't bring myself to vote for her", "We need a real revolution", "Well, well, Obama deported a lot of people too", "But her emails", "Da economic anxiety", "Other liberals we're mean to me", "Riverdale Chrysler won't take my trade-in".

What nonsense are you gonna use to deflect from the fact you threw members of your coalition under the bus. Oh, maybe this will be good for Hispanics, make the others fall in line behind the "right" candidate next time.

Yeah miss me with that struggle contrarians nonsense, and **** off. As a person of color and an immigrant myself, from the bottom of my heart **** all the way off.

-Duece don't use this to troll Max either.
Click to expand...
 
ninjahood said:
fixed.

now go kick sand b, cuz DACA wouldn't of survived supreme court law suit Constitutionality scrutiny.
Click to expand...
And the mental gymnastics begins

Trump going after Dreamers......blame the Democrats. Such cowardly partisan rubbish

Besides the conjecture you have defended **** the Supreme Court and other courts have shot down. I remember you bigoted nonsense about the Defense of Marriage Act from years back, and you defended the travel band. Also you have defended stop and frisk. So miss us with talking about the courts

And if the ACA was so terrible, why do we still have it?

Have a seat b, you just making yourself look silly.

Defending this vile bigot in the White House is like your second job. Same you don't get paid in Cuban links for it.
 
Last edited:
RustyShackleford said:
Trump going after Dreamers......blame the Democrats. Such cowardly partisan rubbish
Click to expand...

if Obama would've took care of immigration reform in da 1st term LIKE ALL IMMIGRATION GROUPS BEGGED HIM to do he wouldn't have to resort to a stupid executive action thats as flimsy as your argument. :lol: :smh:

dorky Democrats went for cap & trade that went down in flames instead by da hands of a DEMOCRATIC senate.

:smh: :lol:
 
Remember Bush jr tried an attempt to do something for immigration iirc, but again opposition from repubs

Obama tried something, went thru

Now trump blaming obama?
what.gif
 
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