***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Thank you for your response. And I agree with your last point as well discussions are better than a debate because people see debates as something to win instead of learn from. I've benefited from discussions myself the past few years and have grown on certain things I didn't truly understand. For example a few years ago I didn't understand sexism, male privilege and all that that encompasses, I could've just said **** it since on the surface it appeared like it wouldn't affect me anyway (even though it does) but instead of that I asked myself what if i'm wrong what if I don't understand what if there is something i'm missing....so I decided to discuss and learn in good faith with an open mind and i've become a better person for it and there is still much more for me to learn. I was able to swallow my pride like you did at one point and consider the scary and unsettling thought that not only might I be wrong but I could be unintentionally contributing to oppression because of ideals previously argued. But unfortunately some don't do this, there are those that don't go into discussions with good faith either.

I aspire to be an educator and researcher myself (currently studying political science) I do understand the importance of a healthy discussion I really do. But i'm starting to feel like there are certain individuals who just aren't worth discussing with once they have shown you they do not care to even consider they might be wrong, ignore facts, research, data and just logic in general. And I don't have an answer yet for what to do once hitting a road block like that.

In about 2012, 2013, 2014 or so, as it dawned on my how pervasive white supremacy really was, I did feel nervous about admitting my new perspective to people of color and long time white allies to people of color. I was thinking "how could I be this stupid and all these people who were just born knowing about every single method of oppression will laugh at me." My anxiety was relieved when I read and heard accounts from men of color about how they used to be complicit in patriarchy.

While there is no excuse for supporting either white supremacy or patriarchy, I felt a little relieved, on a personal, and I was reminded that privilege often times is invisible to its beneficiaries. When someone as brilliant as Ta-Nehisi Coates can repeatedly admit that he used to be complicit in a system that plundered the female body and Coates is still loved and admired, it made me less scared to admit that I used to be complicit in a system that plundered non white bodies.


As far as your academic aspirations are concerned, good for you. I am sure you get advice from others but I feel obligated to offer up some more. The main thing is that you should cultivate as many relationships as possible with your professors. When students come to my office and it is not a desperate bid to add the class, get an extension on a deadline or to get a grade that they do not deserve, I love to talk with them.

In the short run, talking to your professors, in office hours, can help you find new and better summer reading and academic seminars. More long-term, your professors, especially well established and tenured professors, can open a lot of doors to quality internships, jobs and law and grad school opportunities.


You and Ninja are not the same. I remember your post from back then, while I did not agree with them you never seemed to take pleasure in antagonizing the black members on NT on race. You never crossed some of the the lines Ninja. I feel you are being held up as this example to argue that there could be hope for Ninja to be reformed, I'm am not buying it. Even looking at your general public, sure their are people that could be convinced to change their minds if enough time was taken, their are people that would let go of conservatism or white supremacy if you have the time and patience to convince them. That goes for both minorities and white people. However, the overwhelming majority will not change.

Also a subclass of those people get some sort of utility from being the contrarian of their demographic. I was clear Thomas Sowell thought he was special because he was not a liberal democrat advocating for demand side policies to help his people, when that acclaimed didn't come, he turned very hostile. Ben Carson did the reverse, when it seem he was no long they symbol of black excellence and his community was following Obama down a road he didn't like, he turned hostile. You might say it is worth it to still try to , which it may, but Ninja been hostile about black race issue for over 5 years plus now. I have no reason to have no faith in him making any revelations about how disgusting some of the implication of the things he says really are. Not only that, it is clear ole boy takes pleasure in knowing he is upsetting people.

For multiples reason I don't see their being a prevailing force to cause some change, he more like the white Southerner than the Rust Belt steel worker. That is why I liken him more to Blco, someone for years that antagonized on race, someone that took pleasure in seeing members get upset about the issue, someone who people including Meth and including yourself said that we should be willing to engage with him, but Blco proved himself every bit of the vile bigot and racist he appear to be for years.

I can see the value in allowing alternative view points into NT. While me and you sometimes debate things, often petty differences, extensively, I must say that reading your post since you have been a socialist made me way more leftist than I otherwise been. On the opposite end of the ideological spectrum Crc Baller at times makes good conservatives arguments (often times not), and he would have my respect, but he also says things like minorities support democrats for welfare; black people are committing genocide with their abortion rates and Dems should do something about it because that is killing off their future constituents.

While I can understand were you and Meth are coming from, I am pessimistic about the chance that most people can be convinced to see the light if you are patient enough with them. Whether it be The Left with the deplorables or Meth with Ninja, I feel the faith is misplaced.

Well, I doubt that we will directly talk Ninja over to the left. What we can do is remind him and people like him that we are all, ultimately, in this American experiment together. The other thing we can do is to present alternative view points and do it more than once.

Things will have to happen well beyond the cope of this board but if or when his ideology collapses under its own weight, our views will have a good chance of filling the void. And hey, if Ninja never flips, there could be marginal posters and lurkers who might be white supremacists, conservatives right now, whose ideology will collapse in a few years and I hope that my reminders about our shared purpose and the fact that anti-racism is no ta plot to shake down white folks, will all be remembered by disillusioned conservatives.

Folks lose faith with ideologies all of the time and they will latch onto whatever has already articulated and offered. One of the major reasons why won wit ha platform of austerity in the midst of a depression back in 2010 was that they had a story to tell about economics and liberals did not have a story to tell. For every liberal who was saying "we had to bailout the banks and now just wait for the stimulus to kick in" we had ten conservatives saying "Wall Street was actually over regulated and we need to pursue austerity in order to get your jobs back."

Robber Baron economics won because people were promoting it. Bad ideas with loud and indefatigable advocates win out over good ideas that no articulates. This is especially true during a crisis and believe me, a whole lot of economic and environmental crises are coming down the pike so I'll tell everyone about the virtues of intersectional socialism, not to win them over right now but to win them over when storms and future recessions crush their existing ideology.


These indictments are Nothingburgers with a side of Nothingfries. :emoji_fries::emoji_hamburger::emoji_kiss::emoji_lipstick:

If the Honkerburger had not been shut down by globalists, we would have some real burgers.
 
that answer is right here..in da article.

Most whites live in largely white neighborhoods, where homes often prove to be a better investment because people of all races want to live there. Predominantly black communities tend to attract a narrower group of mainly black buyers, dampening demand and prices, they say.

same reason da urban clothing landscape has went da way of da dinosaur.
See? You're proving people wrong already by acknowledging some of the ways that racial bias in the housing market hurts people of color - including those in affluent areas.

Housing has been one of the largest stores of inter-generational wealth in our society - and one that has been historically denied to people of color. The subprime mortgage crisis triggered the largest loss of Black wealth in the nation's history.

Even if you did everything society prescribes to attain the "American Dream" (earn a college degree, attain a good job, purchase a home), you could wind up losing money - and quite possibly your home - due largely to discriminatory behavior in the housing market.

JHU_housing-boom-and-bust.5x5.jpg


Beyond that, schools are largely funded by property taxes. We've already mentioned the relationship between the percentage of Black residents in NYC neighborhoods and police stops. Neighborhood demography can also influence access to mainstream financial services: https://www.newamerica.org/family-c...ities-have-fewer-financial-service-providers/

Were we live can dramatically affect our quality of life, and even a relatively modest racial bias can manifest itself in countless ways. We've touched on but a small few.

It's essential to keep the above in mind whenever someone attempts to claim "but Detroit" or "but Chicago" to deflect from or justify the persistence of institutional racism.
 
See? You're proving people wrong already by acknowledging some of the ways that racial bias in the housing market hurts people of color - including those in affluent areas.

i wouldn't call it racial bias, that's a failure on a consumer product that was too niche' to support itself under weight of da market forces that dictate da worth.

if you market and promote a mono ethnic neighborhood that culturally only appeals to a small % ethnicity, its no surprise only a narrow portion of da consumer base will wanna drop anchor there, just on pure math black people are only 13% of da United States population, and im sorry, i ain't gonna fault people for wanting to huddle in their own comfortable group...us Latinos do it, asians do it, and da aforementioned do it...white people are da most dominant numbers wise so by da default they do it too.

its like me coppin a classic obscure car with expensive NOS parts, applying a custom paint job, and when its time to sell it, act baffled why they're is such a low potential customer base.

those house prices in that black county were fuelled by da speculation of da potentially loans other black families would've been able to get to then take out a mortgage, along with da overall brisk housing market at da time. once housing reform passed and more stringent credit policies were applied, it cut off da cheap money/credit and those potential black families vanished.

thats not a "racism" problem to me, you could argue that Bill Clinton actually meant well when he approved da status quo of subprime mortgages so black families will limited credit could taste da American dream of owning a house, but sometimes da rules of unintended consequences rules da day with da 2008 meltdown.
 
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i wouldn't call it racial bias, that's a failure on a consumer product that was too niche' to support itself under weight of da market forces that dictate da worth.

if you market and promote a mono ethnic neighborhood that culturally only appeals to a small % ethnicity, its no surprise only a narrow portion of da consumer base will wanna drop anchor there, just on pure math black people are only 13% of da United States population, and im sorry, i ain't gonna fault people for wanting to huddle in their own comfortable group...us Latinos do it, asians do it, and da aforementioned do it...white people are da most dominant numbers wise so by da default they do it too.

its like me coppin a classic obscure car with expensive NOS parts, applying a custom paint job, and when its time to sell it, act baffled why they're is such a low potential customer base.

those house prices in that black county were fuelled by da speculation of da potentially loans other black families would've been able to get to then take out a mortgage, along with da overall brisk housing market at da time. once housing reform passed and more stringent credit policies were applied, it cut off da cheap money/credit and those potential black families vanished.

thats not a "racism" problem to me, you could argue that Bill Clinton actually meant well when he approved da status quo of subprime mortgages so black families will limited credit could taste da American dream of owning a house, but sometimes da rules of unintended consequences rules da day with da 2008 meltdown.


Ninja, I have to point out that ceteris paribus, all other variables being equal, being black caused a borrower to have higher interest rate. Black borrowers with equal income, credit scores and down payments would be assigned a slightly higher rate then white folks with the same qualification. Obviously, with the sums of money and time expected to pay off a mortgage, a quarter of a percentage is enormous over life of that mortgage.

Furthermore, all things were rarely equal and white folks tended to have better qualifications because they were more likely to have had middle and upper class parents and grandparents. Higher credit scores, it is easy to have higher credit score when mom and da can help you pay off your $500 limit credit card in college. Other debt, white folks are less likely to have to borrow as much money to go to school or to bu ya car as black folks. White people tend to have better job opportunities after college because most jobs are secured through personal and professional networks, the character of which hinges on your parents' networks.

Notice that i am not even talking about people with really wealthy parents who can hand their kids a big down payment or buy them a starter home outright. Much of white privilege consists of small but impactful transfers of wealth from parent to child. These are sometimes called in vivo inheritance or transfers. A reliable car, half of one's college tuition paid, a mini bailout of a 19 year old's college credit card debt and some professional contacts through your mom and dad's jobs are almost as valuable to a young adult as getting a big chunk of money in middle age when a wealthy relative dies.

When people look to deny white privilege, they point to those exemplify its depth, the sort of white folks who have been well off since the 17th century. The white privilege denial says "look, most white people are not extremely wealthy so white privilege must not be real." To that, I say, the breadth of white privilege is the middle and upper middle class Irish, Italian or Jewish American family that has now enjoyed three or four generations of full whiteness, at the hands America' dominant society, and the small but critical in vivo transfers, both social and financial, keep accumulating generation after generation.
 
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