***Official Political Discussion Thread***

Belgium said:
Anyone who ever engaged in the vile racist birtherism conspiracy theory engaged in racism, period.
Click to expand...

like many things, you just can't deal in absolutisms...

one, no one ever levels that rhetoric to Hillary thou.

and Barack also help fuel da rumor long before he was in office..

Andrew Breitbart was never a “Birther,” and Breitbart News is a site that has never advocated the narrative of “Birtherism.” In fact, Andrew believed, as we do, that President Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961.

… [W]e discovered, and now present, the booklet described below — one that includes a marketing pitch for a forthcoming book by a then-young, otherwise unknown former president of the Harvard Law Review.

It is evidence — not of the President’s foreign origin, but that Barack Obama’s public persona has perhaps been presented differently at different times.

bookbio.jpg


https://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

back when he was a author, his publisher marketed him as born abroad to appeal to a exotic aspect of his writing...sure da publisher says it made a error, to save face of course, but i got NPR links that go into detail on how and why barack let da rumor go unchallenged for years, way before politics...it was as simple as marketing.
 
ninjahood said:
like many things, you just can't deal in absolutisms...

one, no one ever levels that rhetoric to Hillary thou.

and Barack also help fuel da rumor long before he was in office..

Andrew Breitbart was never a “Birther,” and Breitbart News is a site that has never advocated the narrative of “Birtherism.” In fact, Andrew believed, as we do, that President Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961.

… [W]e discovered, and now present, the booklet described below — one that includes a marketing pitch for a forthcoming book by a then-young, otherwise unknown former president of the Harvard Law Review.

It is evidence — not of the President’s foreign origin, but that Barack Obama’s public persona has perhaps been presented differently at different times.

bookbio.jpg


https://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

back when he was a author, his publisher marketed him as born abroad to appeal to a exotic aspect of his writing...sure da publisher says it made a error, to save face of course, but i got NPR links that go into detail on how and why barack let da rumor go unchallenged for years, way before politics...it was as simple as marketing.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously trying to put some blame on Obama for racists trying to disparage the first black US president with an unfounded racist conspiracy theory...?
There are some things that can and should be dealth with in absolutes, this is one of them. Anyone who engaged in the racist birtherism issue engaged in racist behavior. Period.
You used Snopes there but Snopes also states the claim of Hillary's involvement is false so which is it?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-donald-trumps-claim-hillary-clinton-/
Even if it is true, that changes nothing about the fact that anyone who engaged in it engaged in racist behavior. And you're tacitly defending it just like you did last time.
 
Belgium said:
with an unfounded racist conspiracy theory...
Click to expand...

its not unfounded, clearly you see da genesis of it...

it wasn't just made outta whole cloth :lol:

Snopes had to call it true because there's proof his publisher put that he was erroneously born in Kenya and MSNBC AND Obama himself all but laid da blame for Clinton for stiring it up for 2008.
 
ninjahood said:
its not unfounded, clearly you see da genesis of it...

it wasn't just made outta whole cloth :lol:

Snopes had to call it true because there's proof his publisher put that he was erroneously born in Kenya and MSNBC AND Obama himself all but laid da blame for Clinton for stiring it up for 2008.
Click to expand...
You are trying to defend a racist conspiracy theory in which the only answer is unequivocal condemnation. Just stop.

It's a publishing error... on a promotional booklet from all those years ago. You think a black man could even getting anywhere near a presidency without his proper documentation?
Even Breitbart said Obama was born in the US. That's a pretty low standard. Wherever it came from does not excuse in any capacity the actions of everyone involved in pushing birtherism. Its genesis is wanting to disparage

You've criticized Obama more for birtherism than Trump's involvement with it.
If you're trying to improve the perception that you may hold some racist views, I don't think this is helping.
 
Belgium said:
You are trying to defend a racist conspiracy theory in which the only answer is unequivocal condemnation. Just stop.
Click to expand...

its not a conspiracy theory if it actually got printed b :lol:

you gotta chalk that up to good ol fashion incompetence.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Many on the right not understand how the tax code works and how it drives inequality.

The top 20% might pay income taxes, but everyone pay taxes to support government spending.

Everyone pays payroll taxes, those are regressive and capped. This is the stupidest way to do tax taxation. if we uncapped we could not only fund many government programs but you could lower the rate a lil and give the middle and lower class a tax break. With that you will see a lot of efficiency gains, which would help the economy

Secondly, sales taxes, which most of Americans pay. Even if you are in a go sales tax sate, trust me you pay for it in another ways. Either through higher income taxes, higher property taxes, or ****ty services. Nevada is a perfect example, Clark County Schools are horrendous. Again a regressive sales that lands harsher on the lower classes. We could make them progressive, start taxing services more, with that you could lower the overall rate and give the folk at the bottom another tax break. But we don't

Furthermore, most tax breaks disproportionately go to the upper classes. Mortgage interest, capital gains, state tax deductions, and other tax breaks disproportionately help the upper classes. Not only that, they have successfully suppressed middle class wages, capture are disproportionate amount of the economic gains, and are the first to be bailed out when a recession comes. America's rich are the biggest welfare queens, by a wide margin.

The upper classes don't pay their fair share given the welfare system in place that not only keeps them from sliding out the upper classes, about makes it harder for the lower classes (especially the poor) to climb the economic ladder. The sad irony is that a lil social democracy might actually end up being a net benefit to the well off but not rich people of America. Yet they are still against it

Trump supporters doesn't know the basic to understand that our tax code actually hurts our economy. If they did, they would realize their plans will just make the situation worst.
Click to expand...

I agree with almost everything you posted but I do have to ask, how would we make sales taxes progressive? It seems like a hassle for merchants to have to figure out their customers' income levels.


ninjahood said:
they don't pay anything, infact they get refunds just on child tax credits alone.
Click to expand...

If we are only talking about Federal Income taxes then yes, they are progressive. Higher earners pay a larger percentage of their income. Low income people pay a zero or negative rate and the rate increases as one moves up the wage scale (although the very rich pay a low rate because they get most of their income from capital gains, which are taxed at 15%).

When one includes payroll taxes and your State and local taxes and combines them with Federal Income taxes and derives a weighted average, we see low income people being taxed at an effective rate that is about the same as middle and upper income people.
 
Ninja is confused and his Snopes article confused him even more.

That goof was when Obama signed his book deal, not when they promoted his book. Obama's first book came in 1995, 4 years after that goof, the name of the book change to "Dreams of my Father" and he was promoted as an African American author. He even went on a book tour....





And in that same Snopes post.....

The editor of the biographical text about Barack Obama which was included in the booklet maintained that the mention of Kenya was an error on her part and was not based on any information provided to her by Obama himself:

Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

“You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.”
Click to expand...

There was no book to promote in 1991, and Obama then publishes his autobiographical book 4 years later with a different publisher.

I would love to see these "NPR links" that show Obama was complicit in pedaling this lie. Because it is clear Ninja pedaling one as well. Trying to blame Obama for racism committed against him.
 
ninjahood said:
like many things, you just can't deal in absolutisms...

one, no one ever levels that rhetoric to Hillary thou.

and Barack also help fuel da rumor long before he was in office..

Andrew Breitbart was never a “Birther,” and Breitbart News is a site that has never advocated the narrative of “Birtherism.” In fact, Andrew believed, as we do, that President Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961.

… [W]e discovered, and now present, the booklet described below — one that includes a marketing pitch for a forthcoming book by a then-young, otherwise unknown former president of the Harvard Law Review.

It is evidence — not of the President’s foreign origin, but that Barack Obama’s public persona has perhaps been presented differently at different times.

bookbio.jpg


https://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp

back when he was a author, his publisher marketed him as born abroad to appeal to a exotic aspect of his writing...sure da publisher says it made a error, to save face of course, but i got NPR links that go into detail on how and why barack let da rumor go unchallenged for years, way before politics...it was as simple as marketing.
Click to expand...

The problem with Birtherism is what it represented. It represented the idea that black folks never were and never could be full fledged Americans. The fact that a reality TV personality succeeded in making the President produce his papers was extraordinary and then that same reality TV personality demanded his college transcripts. That stuff just would not have been done to a white president.

Now, I will concede that elites in business, academia and politics will strength their identities in order to gain an advantage. There was a 2013 election for a seat on a local community college board in Houston and the candidate, who was white, used stock pictures of black people in his campaign material and he won the black vote. Barack Obama was Kenyan when it came time to sell books and run for State Senate and he became w white Midwesterner when he had to win the 2008 Iowa caucuses. I love Elizabeth warren but her whole Native American claim is pretty preposterous.

This is not confined to the left or to politics within black communities. Donald Trump tries to act like an evangelical when it suits him. Plenty of conservative lawyers wear hunting garb for an afternoon in order to appeal to the "Duck Dynasty" types.

In a better America, we could all have had a good laugh at Obama's fluid identity. We could have laughed at how much BS politicians shovel our way. We could have had a sardonic laugh due to the fact that Barack Obama is one of the more honorable members of the political elite and he is finessing his identity based on his audience.

Instead, we got yet another dog whistle which said loud and clear that even if your mother was white and 10th generation American, even when you count the sitting President and VP, at the time in '08, as distant cousins, even when you were raised by white grandparents, even when you studied law at America's oldest institution of higher learning, you will always be of sangre sucia.
 
rexanglorum said:
I agree with almost everything you posted but I do have to ask, how would we make sales taxes progressive? It seems like a hassle for merchants to have to figure out their customers' income levels.




If we are only talking about Federal Income taxes then yes, they are progressive. Higher earners pay a larger percentage of their income. Low income people pay a zero or negative rate and the rate increases as one moves up the wage scale (although the very rich pay a low rate because they get most of their income from capital gains, which are taxed at 15%).

When one includes payroll taxes and your State and local taxes and combines them with Federal Income taxes and derives a weighted average, we see low income people being taxed at an effective rate that is about the same as middle and upper income people.
Click to expand...
My wording on that point is very bad. Yes, companies should have to go through that kind of hassle.

This is especially one I had in mind: A national VAT tax, something low, the revenue from it will be given back to lower income people as part of an income subsidy

So in a way lower and lower middle income people will get refunded the the sales taxes (or part of it) they pay during they year.
 
The birtherism is not even the only thing with Trump

He also demanded to see Obama's transcripts to seemingly prove that he was not a beneficiary of Affirmative Action. He publicly demanded they be released

Donald Trump, who probably got into schools because of his family legacy, who family riches was largely based on money from the government, and who used his connection to dodge a war, was now claiming that Barrack Obama couldn't possibly be as success as he was on his own merits.

Donald Trump in the 2010s was drunk on 1970s racist dog whistling

And I wouldn't call Obama's code switching BS. He had to use his heritage to pull a fast on white people, but to calm down their bigotry enough to make them consider voting for him. I see more of a indictment of those white people shameful views, that Barrack Obama's political strategy. Even worst that his presidency and voting for him is now used as a shield to defend many of these people for voting for a vile bigot. One that openly made promised to unleashed hell that look just like Barrack Obama
 
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Like clockwork,there's been calls for Mueller to resign on the right as soon as the news drops about indictements being written :lol:

Basically sounds like this

 
So who do y'all think Mueller is coming for tomorrow? I'm guessing Manafort but I think it could be anyone tbh.
 
rexanglorum said:
The problem with Birtherism is what it represented. It represented the idea that black folks never were and never could be full fledged Americans
Click to expand...

ehhh.. Trump did birtherism on Ted Cruz during da primaries too.

i get ur over arching point thou.
 
I know I'm not the only one that can't wait until tomorrow. The arrests and the Twitter panic by Trump. He is already losing his mind. "DO SOMETHING".
 
ninjahood said:
then there's...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146622/Barack-Obama-Kenyan-born-2007-according-literary-agency--months-announcing-bid-U-S-presidency.html

but im still looking for why Obama let that verbage slide for so long (my npr link im still looking for attributed it to foreign author appeal)
Click to expand...
In 2007 Brrack Obama was a public figure, covered in the mainstream press for years and used by the Democratic Party to whip up votes for other party members.

He gave his famous convention speech to in 2004.

This proves nothing. Absolutely nothing
 
RustyShackleford said:
In 2007 Brrack Obama was a public figure, covered in the mainstream press for years and used by the Democratic Party to whip up votes for other party members.

He gave his famous convention speech to in 2004.

This proves nothing. Absolutely nothing
Click to expand...

well peep this...im getting warmer on da trail

http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once-promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife, Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.

nh-obama.jpg

Barrack Obama
"It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could not take place if I remain in the race," Ryan, 44, said in a statement. "What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign – the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of politics I refuse to play."

Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was "truly outrageous" that the Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

The Republican choice will become an instant underdog in the campaign for the seat of retiring Republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, since Obama held a wide lead even before the scandal broke.

"I feel for him actually," Obama told a Chicago TV station. "What he’s gone through over the last three days I think is something you wouldn’t wish on anybody."

The Republican state committee must now choose a replacement for Ryan, who had won in the primaries against seven contenders. Its task is complicated by the fact that Obama holds a comfortable lead in the polls and is widely regarded as a rising Democratic star.

The chairwoman of the Illinois Republican Party, Judy Topinka, said at a news conference, after Ryan withdrew, that Republicans would probably take several weeks to settle on a new candidate.

"Obviously, this is a bad week for our party and our state," she said.

As recently as Thursday, spokesmen for the Ryan campaign still insisted that Ryan would remain in the race. Ryan had defended himself saying, "There’s no breaking of any laws. There’s no breaking of any marriage laws. There’s no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere."



—AP





da NPR link basically said this... still looking for it thou..

here's this for now.

There are some pretty striking questions, however, than can be drawn from this freshly uncovered information. First of all, why didn’t the media find and question this discrepancy during the 2008 presidential campaign? To me, it appears that Barack Obama was at best complacent with being publicized as having been born in Kenya. At worst, there’s enough evidence to at least consider that Barack Obama may have actually been promoting himself, at some point, as having been born in Kenya.

Why would he do such a thing?

Well, over the past few weeks, we’ve seen a story unfold in Massachusetts where U.S. Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren has been exposed for misrepresenting herself as having a significant Native American heritage. She admittedly did so for personal gain, and is suspected to have done so for professional gain in order to lend ethnically diverse bragging rights to the universities she’s served as a faculty member of.

It’s legitimate to at least ponder the notion that a young academic, and aspiring author might have concluded that publishers would take more notice of him if his background was more exotic and interesting than it actually was. In other words, a form of resume padding. I’m not drawing that conclusion by any means, but it’s a plausible theory and the evidence certainly warrants the question.

https://bernardgoldberg.com/what-obamas-literary-bio-says-about-the-media/

you can tell Barack let it rock till it wasn't convenient for him to anymore :lol:

i mean c'mon folks....a AP story? :lol:
 
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