***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

One step forward: Finally conceding that there are Trump supporters that are racist.

Two steps backwards: Peddling some more economic anxiety nonsense.

Prime, like Pete, can miss me with this bull****.

Reeks of white privilege to be honest. People of color have been left behind by the system way more than these DEPLORABLES but you don't see them falling for the scam.

 

[rexanglorum]

One step forward: Finally conceding that there are Trump supporters that are racist.

Two steps backwards: Peddling some more economic anxiety nonsense.

Prime, like Pete, can miss me with this bull****.

He's in agreement with the mainstream of the Party, except he's imagining low income whites flipping from Trump whereas the establishment of the Party is all about those "highly educated suburban moderates."

Bernie is being foolish even caring about Trump voters. Half the population, who is eligible, doesn't vote. We need to get those people to turn out. We need black and Latino workers who did vote for Obama in '12 but didn't vote at all in '16. We need to get younger potential voters, who are correct that the system is rigged, and get to them with socialism before they get sold on other "explanations."

 

[Belgium]

Compiled from the various reports, here is a summary of the potential crimes under investigation by SDNY in the probe that is now scrutinizing Giuliani's business as well. They are listed in the subpoenas. Despite his close affiliation to other targets like Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, Giuliani himself has not heard anything from prosecutors, which suggests he is a 'target' in the investigation.
The same thing happened to Roger Stone. Amidst subpoenas to his closest affiliates, Stone didn't hear anything from prosecutors until Mueller suddenly dropped an indictment on him.

-Conspiracy to defraud the US
-Acting as an unregistered foreign agent
-Making false statements to federal officials
-Obstruction of justice
-Wire fraud
-Money laundering
-Violating federal election laws that prohibit the use of straw donors and foreign contributions
-Destruction, alteration or falsification of documents in federal investigations
-Aiding and abetting federal crimes

 

[RustyShackleford]

He's in agreement with the mainstream of the Party, except he's imagining low income whites flipping from Trump whereas the establishment of the Party is all about those "highly educated suburban moderates."

Bernie is being foolish even caring about Trump voters. Half the population, who is eligible, doesn't vote. We need to get those people to turn out. We need black and Latino workers who did vote for Obama in '12 but didn't vote at all in '16. We need to get younger potential voters, who are correct that the system is rigged, and get to them with socialism before they get sold on other "explanations."

-Very few in the Party has excused Trump voters like Bernie has.

-Agree we need to get people to turn out.

-The socialism part is optional. Even though I would prefer young white people go to a DSA meeting than a Alt-right meet-upo.

 

[dacomeup]

Black Voters to Black Candidates: Representation Is Not Enough

Black Voters to Black Candidates: Representation Is Not Enough (Published 2019)

Joe Biden leads with black voters, and Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are making better inroads with younger ones than Kamala Harris and Cory Booker. In interviews, voters rejected the idea that racial representation equated to change.

www.nytimes.com

Interesting article.

In an interview on debate day, Mr. Patrick said his just-announced candidacy was seeing support on the ground from black voters, and that he thought Mr. Biden’s lead among them was “softer than it seems.”

“What I’m sensing is not some openness to someone new. What I’m seeing is an openness to me,” Mr. Patrick said, invoking his background as a black man who grew up on the South Side of Chicago.

He had just landed in Atlanta, and was on his way to an event at Morehouse. Three hours later it was canceled: Only two people had shown up.

Really feel like Deval is wasting his time. Wonder what Obama told him.

 

[boris]

One step forward: Finally conceding that there are Trump supporters that are racist.

Two steps backwards: Peddling some more economic anxiety nonsense.

Prime, like Pete, can miss me with this bull****.

If they were actually disgusted by the system, they’d be pissed at corporations and the GOP. Bernie is a clown.

 

[rexanglorum]

-Very few in the Party has excused Trump voters like Bernie has.

-Agree we need to get people to turn out.

-The socialism part is optional. Even though I would prefer young white people go to a DSA meeting than a Alt-right meet-upo.

Mainstream Dems are more subtle than Bernie. However, we know or we should know what "highly educated" and "suburban" signify.

The Democratic Party's leadership and it's policy priorities have centered the professional-managerial class and that's been the case since the late 80's. They simply cannot believe that fellow, professional class, white suburbanites, who have voted Republican for years or even decades, actually are racists.

Low income whites who voted Trump: Deplorable and irredeemable
High income whites who voted for Trump and a bunch of other Republicans: "highly educated suburban moderates"

I'm not asking you to defend this because you and I agree that all Trump voters are deplorable and we can without them. It is just a fact that Democratic leadership is delusional, willing to accommodate white supremacy and is classist when they talk about how well they'll do with those "suburban moderates."

 

[Belgium]

McGahn will probably appeal the ruling.



Also worth keeping in mind that Barr appears to have increasingly weaponized the DOJ Office of Legal Counsel to further Trump's interests. In October, the Council of Inspectors General issued a letter to DOJ in which they rebuked the OLC opinion that overruled the IC Inspector General's determination and blocked the whistleblower complaint from going to Congress. Roughly 70 signatories, including the DOJ Inspector General, wrote that the memo, which is binding to the executive branch, causes serious harm to the whistleblower system by allowing Inspectors General to simply be overruled when they make a determination about a whistleblower complaint.

 

[aepps20]

These same "economically anxious" voters were making the same justifications for supporting George Wallace. Back then we called these people racists and scumbags. Now folks like Bernie want to blame the "system" for why they choose DEPLORABLES over their own well being.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Black Voters to Black Candidates: Representation Is Not Enough (Published 2019)

Joe Biden leads with black voters, and Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are making better inroads with younger ones than Kamala Harris and Cory Booker. In interviews, voters rejected the idea that racial representation equated to change.

www.nytimes.com

Interesting article.



Really feel like Deval is wasting his time. Wonder what Obama told him.

the internalized self hate with some black folks is real. Even though we KNOW the barriers that exist for us at all levels, we hold each other to higher standards than we do white folks. There’s nothing, zero, zilch, nada, about Biden’s platform that would make him a better for black people than Harris or Booker, coupled with the fact he wrote the damn crime bill that helped amplify this overly policed state our communities live in.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Mainstream Dems are more subtle than Bernie. However, we know or we should know what "highly educated" and "suburban" signify.

The Democratic Party's leadership and it's policy priorities have centered the professional-managerial class and that's been the case since the late 80's. They simply cannot believe that fellow, professional class, white suburbanites, who have voted Republican for years or even decades, actually are racists.

Low income whites who voted Trump: Deplorable and irredeemable
High income whites who voted for Trump and a bunch of other Republicans: "highly educated suburban moderates"

I'm not asking you to defend this because you and I agree that all Trump voters are deplorable and we can without them. It is just a fact that Democratic leadership is delusional, willing to accommodate white supremacy and is classist when they talk about how well they'll do with those "suburban moderates."

I wrote out a longer response but decided not to bother because I think it will just cause a repeat of a debate we have had a couple times before.

However I must ask, since you are trying to argue that Bernie and the establishment are guilty of the same crime, just the Dem Party is more subtle, then I guess you agree that Bernie Sanders is delusional and willing to accommodate white supremacy?

Or is this one of those scenarios where being a socialist makes instantly makes someone a good actor and absolves them of all other sins?

 

[aepps20]

I agree but Black folks are usually very savvy when it comes to who we support when the stakes are this high. Obama didn't have our support until he proved he could win over white people. Biden has a lot of support not just because of his connection to Obama but because to some Black people he is a stronger head to head matchup against Trump than Booker and Harris. This may or may not be true but Booker and Harris should've been cultivating inroads with the Black community long before now. There is a reason why when DEPLORABLES try to use a black person for their policies we don't fall for the scam and will vote for a white person over them.

 

[gry60]

LOL @ "absolute testimonial immunity."

 

[dacomeup]

the internalized self hate with some black folks is real. Even though we KNOW the barriers that exist for us at all levels, we hold each other to higher standards than we do white folks. There’s nothing, zero, zilch, nada, about Biden’s platform that would make him a better for black people than Harris or Booker, coupled with the fact he wrote the damn crime bill that helped amplify this overly policed state our communities live in.

"Electability" has become a huge part of this, whatever that means to people. A lot of black people don't see Harris or Booker as electable like they do Biden. And has been rehashed here a bunch, Kamala has run a garbage campaign.

 

[Brownstone]

Mainstream Dems are more subtle than Bernie. However, we know or we should know what "highly educated" and "suburban" signify.

I don't want to speak for you but I assume you are insinuating that these are dog whistles for white voters. I disagree, while this could have been said during the Bush years , this is simply no longer the case. Suburban turnout and educated voters have become bellwethers for Democratic success. Urban (Dem) and Rural (Rep) populations have become immovable.

Suburban populations have continued to skew lower income and have increased in diversity (racial & income) over the past decade. Additionally, while I agree with you on the strategy the Dems have undertaken with regards to who they appeal to (wealthy whites) Bernie is the only candidate that has attempted to raid Trump's base, as opposed to expanding the population as moderates have done.

 

[aepps20]

Kamala is also a Cop.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Kamala is also a Cop.

When I was dropping off Zel's weekly allowance for Big Mama, he told be that if you want to continue to talk spicy about Kamala, you better pay off all them outstanding parking tickets first.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

"Electability" has become a huge part of this, whatever that means to people. A lot of black people don't see Harris or Booker as electable like they do Biden. And has been rehashed here a bunch, Kamala has run a garbage campaign.

Kamala ain't ran the best campaign, and frankly at this point Im not really a fan, BUT nobody can say with a straight face Biden's campaign has been any better. Wasn't his own campaign trying to get him to talk less so he'd stop making so many gaffes? No way his campaign has been better than Harris or Booker.

I'm sick of old black folks pushing pragmatism and electability. It's trash. It's the same people who think the white man's University is worth more, or tell black women to straighten their hair for job interviews, or tell their kids "don't act up around white folks". It's all internalized self hate. Thinking one of us isn't good enough until a white man has provided validation.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am not gonna **** on people's decision, especially black folk, double especially older black people, for supporting who they support.

First Biden support in the deep South is not strictly on Obama. Biden because of his extensive campaigning for the Democratic Party as long standing relationships and experience that is helping him. Plus Biden was out there going to bat for Obama publicly and proudly, he and Obama didn't seem to have an arrange of conviene like Bill Clinton and Gore. So while it is annoying, he does deserve some residual shine.

Secondly the calculation that that 'Hey, my life will better under Dem rule than GOP rule, especially with Trump, so let me make sure a Democrat wins.........who looks to have the best chance (look at the polls) it is Biden" is totally logically and fair.

Third, it is on the candidates to make their appeals and get the votes. Harris, Booker, and others have all ran lackluster to bad campaigns. What reason are they giving these voters to roll the dice on them? Bernie and Warren seemed to only seem to become awake to the specific plights of black people when it comes time to run for president. Otherwise they were touring White America indulging them in their fantasy world and peddling nostalgia politics.

 

[IATT]

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Meh, I stand by what I said. Biden wouldn’t be a serious candidate right now without his relationship with Obama. He tried running his own campaign in 08 and got like 8 votes.

But whatever, I pray black folk get it together before the primaries. Personally there’s no way in hell Im voting for Biden, Sanders or Warren when there’s at least 2 minorities on the ticket.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-Biden is the VP of a two term president that is beloved by the Democratic base.Even if you take the fact Obama is that president, he is naturally gonna be the frontrunner.

Bush 88 streamed rolled the field, so did Gore '00. Biden being the frontrunner is in line with recent history. Biden has support from other places in the Dem coalition, not just Southern black people. So I don't know why older black people have to be central to the criticism. Especially since they don't have a outstanding alternative.

-He was not a former VP in 2008. He was running against Clinton, Obama, and Edwards. Dude had no shot from the jump. Anyone of the people running right now would have gotten steamrolled too.

 

[Belgium]

Even in the cleanup he is exculpating Russia. They didn’t just try, they succeeded in hacking the DNC.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don't want Biden to win, I don't want to have to vote for him and campaign for him.

I find his style of campaigning extremely condescending, he is out of touch with where this country needs to go, the Republican Party's construction, and he doesn't seem up to the task for the fight ahead.

But I am not gonna buy into this feeling that of all demographics that make up the Democratic coalition, Southern black voters are the ones that are holding up progress.

 

[dacomeup]

But whatever, I pray black folk get it together before the primaries. Personally there’s no way in hell Im voting for Biden, Sanders or Warren when there’s at least 2 minorities on the ticket.

Harris and Booker ain't getting my vote over Warren. Don't care about them being black or not. Don't that that's an indictment on black people at all to not vote for either of them. Biden will only get my support if he wins the primary. He's spin cycle washed.