***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

 

[rexanglorum]

As you mention, white families have long taken advantage of housing policy based largely on discrimination and racism that you characterize as "leveraging the fact that their dad or granddads had access to home ownership when many others did not."

And your plan is to de-commodify housing as more black families are able to capitalize on it?

Please

Alright, the revolution is cancelled because Jay-Z went from flipping weight to flipping NYC residential properties.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I love the idea of public housing but I just know in practice it will be a cluster****.

Unless publicly owned housing units are being built for mostly white affluent college students, society does do right by the occupants of public housing. Public housing will just be used as the way to segregated minorities away from white, mostly affluent, communities. And the areas where they are built will be allowed to **** because they will be ignored by policy makers.

So you have to make integration central to the aim of public housing. But once you do that, there will tons of resistance.

 

[rexanglorum]

Ah you beat me to it.

This is beyond reprehensible and yet it is not a failure of the system but an example of the system doing what it is designed to do.

 

[...So]

Prepare for the Ultimate Gaslighting*

 

[RIP sleazyy]

what a clown response.



that said, neither should need to donate. the government should be providing the necessary resources. we shouldn't have to depend on rich musicians or random white girls to protect our health care workers.

these celeb posts + twitter responses are hilarious every single time

if you don’t have the money to donate, he’s probably not talking to you genius

in a country where debt could literally be erased with some keystrokes via an economic injection

lord help this system if I’m reincarnated as a wealthy white child

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

nothing makes a better ******** detector for one´s political beliefs than an active collapse-level crisis.

seriously, look at this! if you were TRYING to foment widespread civil unrest, could you do a much better job?

 

[RustyShackleford]

As you mention, white families have long taken advantage of housing policy based largely on discrimination and racism that you characterize as "leveraging the fact that their dad or granddads had access to home ownership when many others did not."

And your plan is to de-commodify housing as more black families are able to capitalize on it?

Please

Spare us

You happy vote for the white man who famously refused to rent to black families

You trying to ride that high horse...

 

[clyde the glide]

My post in here alluding to the fact biden cant talk got deleted smh. Didnt know cnn runs nt too

 

[RIP sleazyy]

imagine saying that while actively supporting somebody who literally made black lives harder on purpose

SNL couldn’t write this **** better bruh

 

[flyeed]

Again, as an ethical matter if you didn't do the labor, your source of income is a theft of others' labor.

Rent is essentially a tax that the more affluent, be it private equity or just upper-middle class folks who inherited a house or had familial support to put up a down payment on a second home, levy on poorer people.

Defenders of landlords want to emphasize the exceptional, the little old widowed lady who lives in a retirement home and her grandson does the repairs on her modest home which she rents to upwardly mobile yuppies whose rent payments pay for her arthritis treatment. In reality, most landlords are two types. The big institutional landlords who are seeing the highest rate of return and they find that buying up the housing stock is more profitable than buying stocks or bonds. The other type are usually white families who are leveraging the fact that their dad or granddads had access to home ownership when many others did not.

Housing policy is the biggest driver of inequality and the fact that most millionaires are millionaires due to real estate and most working class households' biggest expense is rent serve to underscore that fact that commodified real estate is the most reliable vehicle for upwardly distributing wealth and income.

I hear you on the issues with driving inequality when it comes to the two types you described. But where do “exceptions” fit into the ethics of this then? For example, my dad came here as a refugee, and managed to turn blue collar work and hustling into 3 homes. He still works his blue collar job, but rents to all white collar white folks. Is this in your opinion unethical, or is it ethical. And what’s your reasoning? I’m trying to hear different sides of it because it’s a foreign concept to me.

 

[-Red-]

I love the idea of public housing but I just know in practice it will be a cluster****.

Unless publicly owner housing units are being built for mostly white affluent college students, society does do right by the occupants of public housing. Public housing will just be used as the way to segregated minorities away from white, mostly affluent, communities. And the areas where they are built will got to ****.

So you have to make integration central to the aim of public housing. But once you do that, there will tons of resistance.

The premise for public housing in this country was that it wouldn’t compete with the private sector—that it would be basically reserved for the poor of the poor and in areas where private developers had abandoned. That is, indeed, an unsustainable model and has led to the things you point out.

But public housing in many other countries (they usually call it social housing) is not means-tested like that. Anyone can live there and pay a percentage of their income, and the higher-income tenants effectively subsidize the lower-income folks. So you don’t see anything like the same kind of racial and economic segregation we’ve had here. In some countries that kind of government-owned housing is like a third of the entire housing stock, I believe. I think that’s the model we need to move toward.

 

[flyeed]

My post in here alluding to the fact biden cant talk got deleted smh. Didnt know cnn runs nt too

Methodical Management ?

I don’t think there’s censorship here but I think it’d be good to get clarification on the matter

 

[Based Jesus]

What you’re doing is not unethical, but the entire premise of a small minority of people owning multiple housing units—for some people, this amounts to tens of thousands of units—while more than a hundred million people don’t own any housing and many millions more are actually homeless is indeed unethical.

But again the problem is the system not small-time (no disrespect) landlords.

No disrespect taken, I am indeed small time And I agree. I do think it's immoral to have one person or corporation own so many housing units that they run the price up on and would rather leave empty than make affordable when there are millions of homeless people out here.

I'm a proponent of affordable, WELL-FUNDED, WELL-RUN public housing. Obvious emphasis on well-funded and well-run. NYCHA is a ******* mess. Growing up, hanging out in the projects every day after school, that left an impression on me. I didn't even live there but my experiences made me realize how important public housing really was. For a lot of people it's the only option and landowners make it that way.

 

[dwalk31]

Spare us

You happy vote for the white man who famously refused to rent to black families

You trying to ride that high horse...

1. To my knowledge, the discrimination case you are talking about was settled with no admission of guilt.

2. If the allegations were true, then it illustrates my point.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The premise for public housing in this country was that it wouldn’t compete with the private sector—that it would be basically reserved for the poor of the poor and in areas where private developers had abandoned. That is, indeed, an unsustainable model and has led to the things you point out.

But public housing in many other countries (they usually call it social housing) is not means-tested like that. Anyone can live there and pay a percentage of their income, and the higher-income tenants effectively subsidize the lower-income folks. So you don’t see anything like the same kind of racial and economic segregation we’ve had here. In some countries that kind of government-owned housing is like a third of the entire housing stock, I believe. I think that’s the model we need to move toward.

I am aware those programs in other countries.

I am saying white people will sabotage the efforts to move to any model where public housing is used meet the housing demand up and down the income bracket, because many will be resistant to racial integration that comes along with such policies.

And because America is so segregated now, that even if you launch such a program, it can easily be sabotaged. Units built in white areas will be well maintained, units in minority neighborhoods will be allowed to rot. And it would be pretty easy to sabotage it.

For any program to work, you have to make integration central to the mission. Tie people's fates together

 

[RIP sleazyy]

seriously, look at this! if you were TRYING to foment widespread civil unrest, could you do a much better job?

family I work in the business of providing food to low income/no income/homeless people and families. I can tell you these people are getting more afraid, and more hungry, and more angry by the day.

poor people can still be happy. oppressed people can still find happiness.

hungry people are a different, dangerous, scary story. living in the hood I saw what happens when folks get hungry and can’t eat. hunger will make a man go to extreme lengths to feed himself, let alone his seeds and his earth.

What was it Vlad was trying to do? Destabilize democracy and society in the western world?

And it is still...... only........ April.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

wow the mf ice cream machine broke

edit nvm it’s fixed now lol

 

[IATT]

1. To my knowledge, the discrimination case you are talking about was settled with no admission of guilt.

2. If the allegations were true, then it illustrates my point.

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2020

Trump has repeatedly claimed he’s “the least racist person.” His history suggests otherwise.

www.vox.com

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

family I work in the business of providing food to low income/no income/homeless people and families. I can tell you these people are getting more afraid, and more hungry, and more angry by the day.

poor people can still be happy. oppressed people can still find happiness.

hungry people are a different, dangerous, scary story. living in the hood I saw what happens when folks get hungry and can’t eat. hunger will make a man go to extreme lengths to feed himself, let alone his seeds and his earth.

What was it Vlad was trying to do? Destabilize democracy and society in the western world?

And it is still...... only........ April.

I can believe it...might have made over 30k in a year like three times myself, I dare you to find a happier mf.

still, even the quickest study of history shows that these are prime hours for **** to go sideways.

crisis situation + desperate population + indifferent leadership = all bad. ¨monkey time¨ bad.

it´s definitely gonna go in...a direction...but can we focus and channel that energy?

for better or worse, I feel like we are going to find out pretty soon.

 

[rexanglorum]

I hear you on the issues with driving inequality when it comes to the two types you described. But where do “exceptions” fit into the ethics of this then? For example, my dad came here as a refugee, and managed to turn blue collar work and hustling into 3 homes. He still works his blue collar job, but rents to all white collar white folks. Is this in your opinion unethical, or is it ethical. And what’s your reasoning? I’m trying to hear different sides of it because it’s a foreign concept to me.

While the ideal is that housing stock would exist solely to house people and not to make a profit, I don’t see people who buy and rent houses as bad. Since wage labor is precarious and is becoming less and less remunerative and social security payments can barely sustain life, I don’t blame people who want to transition from worker to capital owner, especially in preparation for old age when they cannot work.

Your dad is similar to someone who owns a small business like a restaurant or a liquor store and works in the store and has a few employees. As a matter of my Marxist ideology I eventually want to end all employer-employee and land-renter relations. As a practical matter, scale matters, Amazon is far more exploitive than someone is an owner-operator of a diner and REITs and real estate focused private equity is orders of magnitude more exploitive than someone who owns a couple of rental houses.

Furthermore, I would want the big, institutional real estate holdings to be seized whereas someone like your father should be either bought out at fair market value (where he could invest that money into other assets that produce passive income) or the government places rent control on his properties but the government would give him a subsidy or tax credit to offset his diminished rental income.

 

[-Red-]

I am aware those programs in other countries.

I am saying white people will sabotage the efforts to move to any model where public housing is used meet the housing demand up and down the income bracket, because many will be resistant to racial integration that comes along with such policies.

For certain segments of white folks, of course. But look at the major cities in this country. There is incredible demand for housing and white folks are moving into black and brown communities all over the place in search of cheaper rents, which often sends those rents soaring and displaces the lower-income folks who started there. I think those folks would be all for a massive injection of social housing and would have little issue with the diversity it would entail. Plus it wouldn’t involve displacing anyone. So maybe it wouldn’t work in outlying white suburban areas, but I think it would work tremendously in cities.

Sure, the developers, bankers, and realtors would lose big time and they’d fight it tooth and nail. But **** ’em.

 

[flyeed]

Different topic, but as an anti-status quo liberal, it seems many people that fit into this category care about politics as a way of fostering an identity as a special enlightened snowflake. And less about being willing to concede on their ideals to save and improve lives of poor and middle class folks.

The obvious campaign of Russian/republican operatives combined with these people’s need to feel morally superior and special from their wokeness is going to be a factor that works in trump’s favor. It’s already rampant over social media platforms.

Someone close to me is one of those people. I care about policy as an ends to help the human beings on the ground. They care more about convincing themselves that they’re not sheep, and in turn are automatically superior to anyone who is. And they’re willing to give trump an easier path to re-election to prove it.

 

[stuntman mike]

was settled with no admission of guilt.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I can believe it...might have made over 30k in a year like three times myself, I dare you to find a happier mf.

still, even the quickest study of history shows that these are prime hours for **** to go sideways.

crisis situation + desperate population + indifferent leadership = all bad. ¨monkey time¨ bad.

it´s definitely gonna go in...a direction...but can we focus and channel that energy?

for better or worse, I feel like we are going to find out pretty soon.

I try to focus my energy into good things and kind words whenever I can, even in the places I used to troll the hardest. I believe in spiritual and energy debt.

I used to troll folks like it was my job, I direct it in the opposite direction 98% of the time now even on Xbox lol