***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

If you got Moderna ^3 like me you’d only have a minor cold from Omarion and not with palms that are sweaty, vomit on the sweater from your girl’s spaghetti, and struggling to breathe

 

[osh kosh bosh]

They didn't take the vote as a matter of frivolity. They did it because the positivity rate in the schools currently stands at 24%.

I don't care that the immediate symptoms of Omicron are mild. What can you tell about the long term effects of Omicron? Not much for the time being. Is it reasonable to expect Omicron to cause long term effects? Yes, based on the behavior of the previous dominant variants. Are kids 5-18 vaccinated in enough numbers to support having them in schools with no substantial increase in contaminations? At the moment, I don't believe so.

Again, it isn't enough to rely on the existence of vaccines to justify the call to return to normalcy; they have to be taken by anyone old to enough to be vaccinated. Members of the executive branch have to do their jobs and institute vaccine mandates that guarantee that teachers are not working in hazardous situations.

Stop excusing politicians for pandering to the idiots and the "free-thinkers" in our population. The reason they have executive powers is to deal with such crises, and they are refusing to use them.

anti vaxxers maker that argument about vaccines.
"well we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine!"

yah and?

it's a cost vs benefit.
the cost of closing schools is extremely high

hazy gesturing at vague possible long term effects of omicron imo is not convincing.

we don't know the long term impact of vaccines but we take them anyways because the cost being unvaccinated is worse.
we don't know the long term impact of omicron but we do everything in our power to keep socitey running,
because the cost of closing schools is worse.

asking a vaccinated and boosted teacher to go to work in the face of a milder variant imo is perfectly reasonable under the current conditions.

 

[gry60]

anti vaxxers maker that argument about vaccines.

Smdh

cost of closing schools is worse.

Taking schools online is not closing schools, and it is not worse than closing schools.

Taking schools online TEMPORARILY is part of keeping society running.

And this what teachers everywhere are asking.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Smdh

shake your head all you want to, if i had a cookie everytime anti vaxxer complained about the potential "long term side effects"
it's the same argument. it only makes sense if you don't weigh the vaccine against being unvaccinated and catching covid.

Taking schools online is not closing schools, and it is not worse than closing schools.

Taking schools online TEMPORARILY is part of keeping society running.

And this what teachers everywhere are asking.

online schooling is useless and it should be the absolute last final resort.
not the first one.

voting for online schooling, is voting for a crisis.

 

[RustyShackleford]

shake your head all you want to, if i had a cookie everytime anti vaxxer complained about the potential "long term side effects"
it's the same argument. it only makes sense if you don't weigh the vaccine against being unvaccinated and catching covid.



online schooling is useless and it should be the absolute last final resort.
not the first one.

voting for online schooling, is voting for a crisis.

Voting for two weeks of online school is voting for a crisis?

Really?

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Voting for two weeks of online school is voting for a crisis?

Really?

it was in reference to gry60 saying the school not the teachers that casued this "crisis."

 

[DCAllAfrican]

online schooling is useless and it should be the absolute last final resort.
not the first one.

And what would need to be present for us to consider it the, "LAst Resort?"

Yeah, most teachers I know hate virtual learning. They prefer being in the classroom

But my friend's girl told me because of staff shortages she was put in charge of up to 80 kids at one time.

She was beyond stressed and felt she and her kids were being put in dangerous situations

80 kids at one time? Where the hell does she teach? WHich state?

 

[gry60]

it's the same argument.

It's not, and that's not really a matter of opinion. It's just not.

Are there plans to mitigate the propagation of the virus in packed schools? No.
Are there plans to comprehensively test and isolate kids when they get sick/show symptoms? No.
Are there plans to mandate vaccination in schools? No.

Most importantly, what guarantees do we have that the next variant that comes from ignoring the methods of mitigation will not be resistant to existing vaccines? We don't have any.

Viruses mutate. It's a fact you can't argue against. Every new variant carries the risk to bring us back to January 2020, and taking such a risk is hard to justify in light of the lack of enforcement of the current mitigation methods. Saying that the symptoms of the current variant are mild is not a valid argument when you're not mandating vaccination.

it was in reference to gry60 saying the school not the teachers that casued this "crisis."

Teachers wanted to teach online until it was safe to go back to class, and CPS locked them out of their accounts and effectively cancelled classes.

Who is keeping the kids from learning?

 

[RustyShackleford]

80 kids at one time? Where the hell does she teach? WHich state?

It was in Vegas

 

[IATT]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[mplsdunk]

My boy had so many kids in his classes it took months to learn their names. This was in Henderson.

He had like 300 kids total or something crazy.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Clark County had major staffing issues before the pandemic

They have been barely hanging on during the pandemic

Seems like everyone expects Omicron to break the district.

Like schools having to shut down because the vast majority of the staff are out

 

[mplsdunk]

It grew too fast out there for the schools to keep up as well.

 

[boris]

anti vaxxers maker that argument about vaccines.
"well we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine!"

I keep seeing this comparison pop up and it’s absolutely ridiculous.

Anti-vaxxers cry about how we don’t know the long term effects from the vaccine despite years of data on how vaccines affect us. Not only are they ignoring the science, they also don’t understand how the FDA approval process works.

We have documented cases of coronavirus causing serious life threatening damage to people’s organs. It’s actually very well known that viruses can **** people up long term.

 

[whywesteppin]

I keep seeing this comparison pop up and it’s absolutely ridiculous.

Anti-vaxxers cry about how we don’t know the long term effects from the vaccine despite years of data on how vaccines affect us. Not only are they ignoring the science, they also don’t understand how the FDA approval process works.

We have documented cases of coronavirus causing serious life threatening damage to people’s organs. It’s actually very well known that viruses can **** people up long term.

we have about 5 billion years of data on the covid vaccine.

 

[rexanglorum]

Glen Beck’s show’s motto should be “come for the grift, stay for the pro Nazi artwork on the wall.”

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It's not, and that's not really a matter of opinion. It's just not.

Are there plans to mitigate the propagation of the virus in packed schools? No.
Are there plans to comprehensively test and isolate kids when they get sick/show symptoms? No.
Are there plans to mandate vaccination in schools? No.

Most importantly, what guarantees do we have that the next variant that comes from ignoring the methods of mitigation will not be resistant to existing vaccines? We don't have any.

what you're saying here is way more unreasonable than what teachers are arguing for.
the teachers don't want to go to work because of disagreements over opt in vs opt out testing
amd protocols and metrics for when school districts close

No we will not be able to guarantee that future variants will not be resistant to the vaccine.

such a guarantee is impossible to make,
the requirement of that guarantee is unreasonable
i would like a guarantee that I can have sex with rihanna within the next 1-2 years, that's not going to happen either.

Viruses mutate. It's a fact you can't argue against. Every new variant carries the risk to bring us back to January 2020, and taking such a risk is hard to justify in light of the lack of enforcement of the current mitigation methods. Saying that the symptoms of the current variant are mild is not a valid argument when you're not mandating vaccination.

It's easy to justify,
the type of lockdowns, and governmental surveillance and societal vigilance
necessary to totally ameliorate the risk of future variants

is not possible in western liberal democracies. not canada, not america

it's not going to happen.
so shutting down school in the pursuit of dreams of some utopian zero covid transmission future as a local official would be insane and impractical.

we are not going to create a zero risk world for teachers or for anyone

Teachers wanted to teach online until it was safe to go back to class, and CPS locked them out of their accounts and effectively cancelled classes.

Who is keeping the kids from learning?

The teachers, in a 91% vaxxed workforce,
it's totally reasonable to ask them to go to work,
online is not a substitute for in person learning.

they don't have the power to decree virtual learning.
they were told to come into work, they didn't want to so they went on strike.
the classes were cancelled because the teachers refused to show up for work.

now you may think the strike is reasonable, fine. minds can differ.

but I don't see the point of playing these words games.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I keep seeing this comparison pop up and it’s absolutely ridiculous.

Anti-vaxxers cry about how we don’t know the long term effects from the vaccine despite years of data on how vaccines affect us. Not only are they ignoring the science, they also don’t understand how the FDA approval process works.

We have documented cases of coronavirus causing serious life threatening damage to people’s organs. It’s actually very well known that viruses can **** people up long term.

it's the same argument.

we literally do not have data on how the vaccine might effects us in 10-20 years.
but that argument only makes sense if you ignore the cost of covid.

saying we don't know how omicron will effect in the long term so therefore teachers should stay home
only makes sense if you ignore the cost of school closures.


people everywhere have to go to work in the face of non zero covid risk.
socitey would fall apart if people didn't.

 

[mplsdunk]

People don’t have to teach that’s the thing.

They could quit tomorrow and find a better paying job in a few minutes.

They call the shots. Nobody else, they don’t have much to lose.

All those people quit the hospitality industry for greener pastures, teachers are next up.

 

[RustyShackleford]

it's the same argument.

we literally do not have data on how the vaccine might effects us in 10-20 years.
but that argument only makes sense if you ignore the cost of covid.

saying we don't know how omicron will effect in the long term so therefore teachers should stay home
only makes sense if you ignore the cost of school closures.


people everywhere have to go to work in the face of non zero covid risk.
socitey would fall apart if people didn't.

What is the cost of a two-week school closure? More specifically, two-week virtual learning

You keep saying people are ignoring the cost, but you never specify it

Or are we just working under the assumption that a two week period will have the same impact as the previous months-long one?

 

[boris]

it's the same argument.

we literally do not have data on how the vaccine might effects us in 10-20 years.
but that argument only makes sense if you ignore the cost of covid.

saying we don't know how omicron will effect in the long term so therefore teachers should stay home
only makes sense if you ignore the cost of school closures.


people everywhere have to go to work in the face of non zero covid risk.
socitey would fall apart if people didn't.

This is demonstrably false. A simple google search would reveal what we know about vaccines and specifically mRNA vaccines.

Can you explain what you would expect to see 10-20 years after vaccination?

 

[IATT]