- 94
- 10
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2004
That picture in front of Clinton is an aerial of the compound. That same picture has been shown all over the news.
- 12,264
- 51
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2007
Take your strawman elsewhere.
- 12,264
- 51
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2007
Take your strawman elsewhere.
Originally Posted by JD214
What Blaze just said = Mindblown
. I always thought of this
And people having a parade for someone's death, No matter who it was I still couldn't celebrate it, I'm sure they celebrated when they hit us so we're just looking as bad as them doing it.
You're an idiot. People over there celebrated the killing of innocent civilians. When has our country ever celebrated killing innocent civilians.
- 79
- 10
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
He's been dead for weeks. Of course they wouldnt announce this prior to the royal wedding.They make announcement at 10:30 at night to make it seems as if were breaking news when in fact it was not.
If you lived in the five boros you perhaps saw MTA airing for the first time ever safety commercials a couple weeks ago. It all makes sense now.
If you lived in the five boros you perhaps saw MTA airing for the first time ever safety commercials a couple weeks ago. It all makes sense now.
- 79
- 10
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
He's been dead for weeks. Of course they wouldnt announce this prior to the royal wedding.They make announcement at 10:30 at night to make it seems as if were breaking news when in fact it was not.
If you lived in the five boros you perhaps saw MTA airing for the first time ever safety commercials a couple weeks ago. It all makes sense now.
If you lived in the five boros you perhaps saw MTA airing for the first time ever safety commercials a couple weeks ago. It all makes sense now.
Originally Posted by JD214
What Blaze just said = Mindblown. I always thought of this
And people having a parade for someone's death, No matter who it was I still couldn't celebrate it, I'm sure they celebrated when they hit us so we're just looking as bad as them doing it.
You're an idiot. People over there celebrated the killing of innocent civilians. When has our country ever celebrated killing innocent civilians.
- 2,506
- 109
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
I don't think that point of view is unreasonable. Again let me be clear I don't think it's wrong to be happy that Osama Bin Laden is dead; just the outward display of celebration and the extent to which it has gone. And it concerns me because it can really be the cause of an increase in tension with the American Muslim population. I could feel it all day.
People are uniting around this, which is a good and bad thing I guess. Republican and Democrat. Rush Limbaugh congratulated the President. It's good if you can disassociate the unity against the "enemy" from making unwarranted judgments about Islam as a whole. Unfortunately that takes knowledge about Islam and the region not very prevalent among the average American. I expect to see an increase in these kind of anti-Islam incidents.
- 2,506
- 109
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
I don't think that point of view is unreasonable. Again let me be clear I don't think it's wrong to be happy that Osama Bin Laden is dead; just the outward display of celebration and the extent to which it has gone. And it concerns me because it can really be the cause of an increase in tension with the American Muslim population. I could feel it all day.
People are uniting around this, which is a good and bad thing I guess. Republican and Democrat. Rush Limbaugh congratulated the President. It's good if you can disassociate the unity against the "enemy" from making unwarranted judgments about Islam as a whole. Unfortunately that takes knowledge about Islam and the region not very prevalent among the average American. I expect to see an increase in these kind of anti-Islam incidents.
- 11,910
- 515
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2008
Originally Posted by tkthafm
Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Originally Posted by tkthafm
What ?
Saudis supplied the manpower and money. US supplied money,military intelligence, and arms. Pakista, via it's ISI, provided the training/ organization as well as weapons purchases with Saudi money.
To the Afghan mujahideen.
Let's not get confused here.
This is far different from claiming they founded "al-Qaeda". This is completely wrong. Little to no evidence exists that the US ever armed foreign fighterss or worked with Bin Laden. The mujahideen in Afghanistan are not and were not the same thing as Al-Qaeda. The CIA certainly did arm the Afghan Mujahideen and some of these elements became the Taliban. Al-Qaeda has been mostly funded by rich donors, including bin Laden himself. There is no credible evidence that the CIA trained or gave money to foreign mujahideen (i.e. non-Afghans). Ayman al-Zawahiri confirmed this in a book, and bin Laden claimed a similar story. There's been speculation to the contrary, but no credible evidence has surfaced and people in the know have said it didn't happen. Bin Laden had no need for Western money and certainly, even at that time, wouldn't have agreed to partner with the US. There are few things al-Qaeda & US agree on, and this is one of them. The ISI/al-Qaeda connection/sympathy is true, but they did not "create" al-Qaeda; and neither did the Saudi's (really, the SAUDI'S ? lol). Remember that al-Qaeda ideology and the mentality of its foreign fighters split off from many of the Afghans/ or less "radical" elements (Abdullah Yusuf Azzam most notably) and it was only at this time did al-Qaeda even begin to truly take shape.Why any of these nations would supposedly arm/train/found a group hell bent on their destruction I can't imagine. I'd love to see credible evidence showing otherwise, be it material aid or implanting the ideology (which one can argue IS what 'al-Qaeda' actually is) that any of these nations "founded" al-Qaeda.
- 11,910
- 515
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2008
Originally Posted by tkthafm
Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Originally Posted by tkthafm
What ?
Saudis supplied the manpower and money. US supplied money,military intelligence, and arms. Pakista, via it's ISI, provided the training/ organization as well as weapons purchases with Saudi money.
To the Afghan mujahideen.
Let's not get confused here.
This is far different from claiming they founded "al-Qaeda". This is completely wrong. Little to no evidence exists that the US ever armed foreign fighterss or worked with Bin Laden. The mujahideen in Afghanistan are not and were not the same thing as Al-Qaeda. The CIA certainly did arm the Afghan Mujahideen and some of these elements became the Taliban. Al-Qaeda has been mostly funded by rich donors, including bin Laden himself. There is no credible evidence that the CIA trained or gave money to foreign mujahideen (i.e. non-Afghans). Ayman al-Zawahiri confirmed this in a book, and bin Laden claimed a similar story. There's been speculation to the contrary, but no credible evidence has surfaced and people in the know have said it didn't happen. Bin Laden had no need for Western money and certainly, even at that time, wouldn't have agreed to partner with the US. There are few things al-Qaeda & US agree on, and this is one of them. The ISI/al-Qaeda connection/sympathy is true, but they did not "create" al-Qaeda; and neither did the Saudi's (really, the SAUDI'S ? lol). Remember that al-Qaeda ideology and the mentality of its foreign fighters split off from many of the Afghans/ or less "radical" elements (Abdullah Yusuf Azzam most notably) and it was only at this time did al-Qaeda even begin to truly take shape.Why any of these nations would supposedly arm/train/found a group hell bent on their destruction I can't imagine. I'd love to see credible evidence showing otherwise, be it material aid or implanting the ideology (which one can argue IS what 'al-Qaeda' actually is) that any of these nations "founded" al-Qaeda.
- 8,025
- 216
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2001
So...the guy Tweeting about it as it occurred is apart of everything too?
- 8,025
- 216
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2001
So...the guy Tweeting about it as it occurred is apart of everything too?
- 4,053
- 643
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2010
Columbus Day and Thanksgiving.Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by JD214
What Blaze just said = Mindblown. I always thought of this
And people having a parade for someone's death, No matter who it was I still couldn't celebrate it, I'm sure they celebrated when they hit us so we're just looking as bad as them doing it.
You're an idiot. People over there celebrated the killing of innocent civilians. When has our country ever celebrated killing innocent civilians.
- 4,053
- 643
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2010
Columbus Day and Thanksgiving.Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by JD214
What Blaze just said = Mindblown. I always thought of this
And people having a parade for someone's death, No matter who it was I still couldn't celebrate it, I'm sure they celebrated when they hit us so we're just looking as bad as them doing it.
You're an idiot. People over there celebrated the killing of innocent civilians. When has our country ever celebrated killing innocent civilians.
- 17
- 10
- Joined
- May 2, 2011
hahaha
- 2,506
- 109
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
No, he's absolutely right. Killing Osama does little against the opposition. Even all that data recovered does little against the opposition.
The thing that people don't realize is that Al-Qaeda isn't an organized actual terrorist network. There is no actual terrorist network cell that we once believed. Sure there are specific cells; but what we are fighting is an idea that is prevalent among young Muslim men.
Just as killing Hamas members does little against the opposition; you have to eventually address these underlying issues.
The main issues being:
-The propping up of various dictators in the region (which has hopefully ran its course now)
-The various military bases established in the region
-Most importantly, the Israel Palestine conflict
- 2,506
- 109
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
No, he's absolutely right. Killing Osama does little against the opposition. Even all that data recovered does little against the opposition.
The thing that people don't realize is that Al-Qaeda isn't an organized actual terrorist network. There is no actual terrorist network cell that we once believed. Sure there are specific cells; but what we are fighting is an idea that is prevalent among young Muslim men.
Just as killing Hamas members does little against the opposition; you have to eventually address these underlying issues.
The main issues being:
-The propping up of various dictators in the region (which has hopefully ran its course now)
-The various military bases established in the region
-Most importantly, the Israel Palestine conflict
- 17
- 10
- Joined
- May 2, 2011
hahaha
- 2,328
- 2,078
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
So I assume you have evidence you would like to present ?Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000
Arming indigenous Afghans through Pakistan =/= Arming foreign Jihadists such as Bin Laden; much the ridiculous claim that they 'founded' al-Qaeda.
- 2,328
- 2,078
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
So I assume you have evidence you would like to present ?Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000
Arming indigenous Afghans through Pakistan =/= Arming foreign Jihadists such as Bin Laden; much the ridiculous claim that they 'founded' al-Qaeda.
- 4,837
- 215
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- 4,837
- 215
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- 3,130
- 10
- Joined
- May 21, 2005
From the research I have done, Osama bin Laden infact was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war under the auspices and indirect support of the CIA to fight the Soviets. But, it was done directly through the help of the ISI but indirectly through the CIA.
It was not only local Afghans who were the mujahideens. CIA and Pakistan's ISI wanted to turn the Afghan jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan's fight between 1982 and 1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad. (Read Ahmed Rashid, "The Taliban: Exporting Extremism", Foreign Affairs November-December 1999)
The Islamic "jihad" was supported by the U.S. and Saudi Arabia with a significant part of the funding generated from the Golden Crescent drug trade.In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166, which authorized the stepped-up covert military aid to the Mujahideen. The CIA, using Pakistan's ISI played a key role in training the Mujahideen. In turn, the CIA sponsored guerrilla training was integrated with the teachings of Islam (basically teaching that Islam was a complete socio-political ideology, and that holy Islam was being violated by the threat of Communism and the Soviets, and that the Islamic people of Afghanistan should reassert their independence by overthrowing the leftist Afghan regime propped up by Moscow.)
The ISI was used as a go between, so these guerillas and mujahideen were indirectly suppored by the CIA through the ISI.
- 3,130
- 10
- Joined
- May 21, 2005
From the research I have done, Osama bin Laden infact was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war under the auspices and indirect support of the CIA to fight the Soviets. But, it was done directly through the help of the ISI but indirectly through the CIA.
It was not only local Afghans who were the mujahideens. CIA and Pakistan's ISI wanted to turn the Afghan jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan's fight between 1982 and 1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad. (Read Ahmed Rashid, "The Taliban: Exporting Extremism", Foreign Affairs November-December 1999)
The Islamic "jihad" was supported by the U.S. and Saudi Arabia with a significant part of the funding generated from the Golden Crescent drug trade.In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166, which authorized the stepped-up covert military aid to the Mujahideen. The CIA, using Pakistan's ISI played a key role in training the Mujahideen. In turn, the CIA sponsored guerrilla training was integrated with the teachings of Islam (basically teaching that Islam was a complete socio-political ideology, and that holy Islam was being violated by the threat of Communism and the Soviets, and that the Islamic people of Afghanistan should reassert their independence by overthrowing the leftist Afghan regime propped up by Moscow.)
The ISI was used as a go between, so these guerillas and mujahideen were indirectly suppored by the CIA through the ISI.