School Me On This Russia/Ukraine Kerfuffle

[heelsandeers]

Bro you could try & minimize the #'s into fractions & percentages to minimize how much money is being spent . By the end of this we are going to be giving up somewhere between 50-100 billion in Aide to Ukraine, while we are coming off a pandemic & a pending recession (or not depending on the definition )

And this funded War is exactly like every other war we funded, the only reason it's being painted differently is because



This is a power move for the U.S cool i could live with that, it's what this country is. But i am Sick of the semantics & the selective sympathy that's been pushed here.

yawn

 

[heelsandeers]

Putin's master strategy paying dividends

ETA: No vote - Josh Hawley; Present - Rand Paul

 

[trynafeelmink]

What's the over/under on how much we end up spending on Ukraine??

 

[heelsandeers]

Russia claims Ukraine used US arms to kill jailed POWs. Evidence tells a different story.

Olenivka prison attack: Russia claims Ukraine used US arms to kill jailed POWs. Evidence tells a different story.

www.cnn.com

More western capitalist media propaganda?

 

[gry60]

Haven't heard from some people since Russia started launching attacks from an active nuclear plant...

 

[mr jordan04]

What's the over/under on how much we end up spending on Ukraine??

Too much

 

[trynafeelmink]

Too much

I'm thinking bout 80 Billion will end up being about the number

 

[gry60]

Too much

The US can either pay some money now to keep its own troops away from the action and keep its credibility intact (which helps in diplomatic negotiations), or the US can ignore Eastern Europe, watch Lukaschenko and Putin invade Ukraine, Moldova, etc..., watch Poland (NATO member) mobilize its troops, and get dragged in an Eastern European conflict anyway + loss of international credibility.

Funding Ukraine is the least expensive choice.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Why exactly would Poland be dragged into conflict?

Is this assuming that Russia is SLOWLY making its way to nato countries?

As opposed to specifically invading a non nato country?

 

[trynafeelmink]

what about credibility from your own citizens?? that should be kind of high ranking right

 

[fluid hips]

Ahh yes. The classic if we don't do such and such, this will happen. Like they have a time machine

 

[gry60]

Why exactly would Poland be dragged into conflict?

Is this assuming that Russia is SLOWLY making its way to nato countries?

As opposed to specifically invading a non nato country?

Poland was an example, (they do share a border with Russia - the Kaliningrad region) but realistically speaking, I can see Russia threaten the integrity of smaller Baltic states (Lithuania), whose NATO membership Russia doesn't think is legitimate. In such a case, the US would still be dragged into a direct confrontation its population will not support.

Ahh yes. The classic if we don't do such and such, this will happen. Like they have a time machine

I hope you realize that geopolitics is mostly an exercise in predicting the behavior of nation-states and finding out the best way to position your own nation based on those predictions.

This is largely due to the fact that international law is mostly a set of guidelines that parties with the most power get to follow or not, depending on whether it benefits them. This why most nations turn a blind eye to the US not being part of the international court of justice, and most nations can't do much as Russia is using inhumane tactics (indiscriminately shelling civilian areas, or using a nuclear power plant as a staging area for attacks on Ukrainian soil). It's not like someone can unilaterally sanction either of these actors for not following international law.

 

[fargin]

Helping Ukrainians survive Russia's genocide is brining us all together.

It's a beautiful thing.

 

[heelsandeers]

Dudes posting like their wages are being garnished to fund the war

Y'all always this concerned with the national debt ?

 

[biggie62]

Why exactly would Poland be dragged into conflict?

Is this assuming that Russia is SLOWLY making its way to nato countries?

As opposed to specifically invading a non nato country?

Putin has openly said that he wants the USSR back in its original form and that it was the biggest mistake of Russia for letting the republics go their separate ways. Granted Poland never wanted to be part of the USSR after WW2. Truman didn’t listen to the peoples pleas but rather wanted to get the haggling over with Stalin quickly.

Now I’m Polish so I obviously have a little more invested with someone saying that outright.

 

[shogun]

Helping Ukrainians survive Russia's genocide is brining us all together.

It's a beautiful thing.

Doesn’t seem like all.

 

[shogun]

Dudes posting like their wages are being garnished to fund the war

Y'all always this concerned with the national debt ?

You mean the billions the government is supposed to give me instead of Ukraine? Of course i’m mad.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Putin has openly said that he wants the USSR back in its original form and that it was the biggest mistake of Russia for letting the republics go their separate ways. Granted Poland never wanted to be part of the USSR after WW2. Truman didn’t listen to the peoples pleas but rather wanted to get the haggling over with Stalin quickly.

Now I’m Polish so I obviously have a little more invested with someone saying that outright.

What exactly was the context?

That he would love it if USSR was still in all its glory?

That he has a plan to reclaim all that territory?

I can't stop peoples worrying, but the reality is that Russia has done nothing to incite conflict with any nato country

For some reason, we're pretending that Russia hasn't strategically picked this state

 

[biggie62]

What exactly was the context?

That he would love it if USSR was still in all its glory?

That he has a plan to reclaim all that territory?

I can't stop peoples worrying, but the reality is that Russia has done nothing to incite conflict with any nato country

For some reason, we're pretending that Russia hasn't strategically picked this state

He wants to reclaim it. That’s the legacy he wants.

 

[thehealthinspector]

He wants to reclaim it. That’s the legacy he wants.

And He can want it as much as he desires

Nothing is stopping him from wanting it until he touches a nato country

 

[fargin]

And He can want it as much as he desires

Nothing is stopping him from wanting it until he touches a nato country

Ukraine is stopping him and NATO is leveling Ukraine up.

Finland is joining NATO, Sweden is joining NATO. And right now Ukraine is ferrying soldiers out of country and NATO instructors are rallying to train Ukrainians on NATO systems and NATO doctrine. Right now Ukraine is getting fast-tracked into EU, do you think we're arming Ukraine with NATO systems to leave them out in the cold. Out of NATO?

Russia was already stopped and had to abandon their dreams of capturing Kyiv. Now they are stalled and as of yesterday Crimean holiday goers are panicking, because Ukraine destroyed an military airbase unimpeded.

Russia calls this a workplace mishap.

 

[Nike Jordan]

I need Putin to take the L and pull out of Ukraine so we can get GoldenEye 007 and Advance Wars already.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Ukraine is stopping him and NATO is leveling Ukraine up.

Finland is joining NATO, Sweden is joining NATO. And right now Ukraine is ferrying soldiers out of country and NATO instructors are rallying to train Ukrainians on NATO systems and NATO doctrine. Right now Ukraine is getting fast-tracked into EU, do you think we're arming Ukraine with NATO systems to leave them out in the cold. Out of NATO?

Russia was already stopped and had to abandon their dreams of capturing Kyiv. Now they are stalled and as of yesterday Crimean holiday goers are panicking, because Ukraine destroyed an military airbase unimpeded.

Russia calls this a workplace mishap.

Except they haven't really stopped him

As long as the land is in dispute, Ukraine can't join NATO

 

[sneeker]

Except they haven't really stopped him

As long as the land is in dispute, Ukraine can't join NATO

this is exactly the reason why Sweden and Finland joined NATO. Russia took the initiative to invade Ukraine before it got the chance to join NATO as this would validate the whole NATO to get involved in the war without restrictions and total political repercussions. with Sweden and Finland finally joining NATO, this would prevent any stupid justification that Putin would use to invade any of those territories. regardless what domestic situation that Finland or Sweden have has now become none of Russia's business and any interference by them would justify whole involvement of NATO which Russia is not willing to take.

Russia's invasion was well planned although the factors and conditions had an unexpected outcome.
1. Russia's military capability was overestimated by the world leaders.
2. Ukraine's resistance and military capability was underestimated by everybody.
3. Russia didn't expect the world leaders to call his bluff after years and decades of inaction due to uncertainty of Russia's capability.

from what I could see, Russia's military posturing is nothing more than an empty threat much like North Korea's military parade tried to scare everyone in South Korea. from the Winter War with FInland, Afghan War and Arab Spring to the Ukraine War, Russia hasn't really won anything significant in warfare. even their so-called victory in Chechnya isn't a military victory but rather was contained due to bribery and assassinations of the rebel leaders. Putin is a Stalin-wannabe that has no real sense of military expertise.

 

[fargin]

Except they haven't really stopped him

As long as the land is in dispute, Ukraine can't join NATO

But they really did.

He couldn't take Kyiv and now they have demonstrated they can reach out and touch Crimea.