Star Wars Universe Thread: May The 4th Be With You

Did you like The Last Jedi?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 71.6%

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 28.4%
  • Total voters
    95
  • Poll closed .
Show All
seasoned vet said:
sounds like you would of been just fine if they threw a few Harry Potter wands in there too somewhere.

woo hoo!!
yesss!!!
Click to expand...
Nice try, don't even watch/read harry potter. Seems like you're not a Star Wars head anyway, if so, your opinion
means nothing. You strictly trolling because your reply didn't relate to anything I mentioned. So you're either unable to
comprehend English in written form or you genuinely didn't like the movie. If so, what movies do you actually like?
 
kobeoverbron said:
That is so WILD! I expected him to blast the command centre but he refused to fire.
Kylo Ren is probably a top 3 Star Wars character in terms of depth, backstory and
relevance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for everyone that complained about him in TFA, this is the direction I was hoping they'd go in. He's like a bully who wants to be so tough but gets punked at home by his pops (Snoke) but then once he's able to step up to him, he's about to be a monster. I don't want no redemption for this guy, I want full ESB Vader-esque Kylo choking everybody out in the next one.

He needs his mask back too though. Make a new variation or something.
 
I was just about to say that I've kind of enjoyed having these discussions and debates over TLJ as it's made me look at different perspectives about the movie, look and think about the characters differently and look at Star Wars as a whole differently.

But some of y'all are way too sensitive to even have these types of conversations and responses just turn into attacks rather than actual discourse.

|l
 
Leia's Mary Poppins in space:
JUCH0mJ.gif


How Rian should be feeling right now:
whid1.gif


I don't want to find out my childhood hero is flawed. I want him to be an awesome hero. Especially in the world we live in today where we find out everything about everything and it's almost always awful stuff. MJ is a big jerk. Superman and Batman kill people. The President of The United States is a F'n joke. I just want the greatest Jedi ever to act like the greatest Jedi ever. :frown:
 
jaypesoz said:
Yeah, for everyone that complained about him in TFA, this is the direction I was hoping they'd go in. He's like a bully who wants to be so tough but gets punked at home by his pops (Snoke) but then once he's able to step up to him, he's about to be a monster. I don't want no redemption for this guy, I want full ESB Vader-esque Kylo choking everybody out in the next one.

He needs his mask back too though. Make a new variation or something.
Click to expand...
YES. I love the conflict within him and it clearly makes his character more interesting
rather than just keeping Snoke as the main mustache twirling villain.
Kylo needs to be Prime Vader/Rogue One Vader next movie pulling Rebel fleets from
the sky and crashing it. I need him to be menacing and OP so Rey would have a harder
time. Watch Rey lose one of her hands next movie.
:pimp:
 
djkona said:
I don't want to find out my childhood hero is flawed.
Click to expand...

I think this is where a lot of people differentiate. Luke being flawed is what makes his character at the end of TLJ that much deeper and that much more interesting IMO.

He's been through a lot. I wouldn't want him to just be a lightsaber wielding hero that we all put on a pedestal. He's so much more than that.
 
Also, Luke saving the day will take the spotlight away from Rey and effectively nullify her character
arc. Because, you know, the most powerful being in the galaxy is back.
 
7th Chamber said:
I think this is where a lot of people differentiate. Luke being flawed is what makes his character at the end of TLJ that much deeper and that much more interesting IMO.

He's been through a lot. I wouldn't want him to just be a lightsaber wielding here on a pedestal at this point. He's more than that.
Click to expand...

people have zero issues with Luke being a flawed character, or any character.

none what so ever.

its the execution.

but this had been said over and over and over in this thread, only for the “just go with it” types to ignore it
 
kobeoverbron said:
YES. I love the conflict within him and it clearly makes his character more interesting
rather than just keeping Snoke as the main mustache twirling villain.
Kylo needs to be Prime Vader/Rogue One Vader next movie pulling Rebel fleets from
the sky and crashing it. I need him to be menacing and OP so Rey would have a harder
time. Watch Rey lose one of her hands next movie.
:pimp:
Click to expand...

Yo, imagine it comes full circle next time and Kylo yanks Poe's X-Wing out the sky though?:wow:

But yeah, once Rebels ends, they need a new series that takes place right before TFA or right after TLJ. I'd prefer a younger Luke training Ben with Snoke in the background, but we pretty much got that with Anakin in The Clone Wars.
 
jaypesoz said:
Yo, imagine it comes full circle next time and Kylo yanks Poe's X-Wing out the sky though?:wow:

But yeah, once Rebels ends, they need a new series that takes place right before TFA or right after TLJ. I'd prefer a younger Luke training Ben with Snoke in the background, but we pretty much got that with Anakin in The Clone Wars.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind too, Kylo would have lost his mind EVEN MORE by episode 9. Really hoping he starts plucking
X wings from the sky like you said.

Whoever is directing episode 9 needs to do away with the campy casino scenes and stick with the gritty style
of ANH. The running around with animals was cool but unecessary.
They're doing a live action tv show right? CAN'T WAIT. If it's anything like Rebels I'm down.
 
here are more more detailed spoiler thoughts.

Preface.

The idea that any prequel is better than this I think is mostly silly. The prequels while containing some good ideas, are just straight poorly made, incompetently written, and poorly staged in some scenes and one of the central emotional through-lines of the film; Annakin and Padme's romance scenes, are like laugh out loud bad. You can disagree with the thematic choices in TLJ, but it's objectivley not poorly made.


10 Things I liked and didn't like.

1. Kyle Ren is both the only truly new, and the most compelling character in the new trilogy.

The best part of the film and the only new and original idea in the new trilogy. Kylo Ren is good, and a very compelling interesting unique villain, as this form of arrested development adolescent male rage and self loathing. the scenes between him and Rey could have been terrible but they were really really strong, the red room scene was great, adam driver is great, the way he hit that "please" line at the end of his plea to Rey was amazing. Rey is good, her character while thinly draw is compelling still though based ridley's performance, and her identity as the first female main jedi hero in this franchise just makes her inherently compelling.

2. Snoke catching the L was good.

Don't care about snoke, don't want to know more, he a silly mustache twirling villain, and x-ing him out early takes the franchise in a new an interesting direction.

4. Luke's arc was mostly good.

It made sense to me, I'm fine with it, I like old crank Luke. I don't try to get bogged down about the cannon questions about the reversal at the end. I think the emotional point of view and the background we got about him and Kylo is all good.

5. John Boyega is basically playing the typical sci fi female role.
They did my man dirty in TFA, and it continues in TLJ. He basically is the female role, he exists merely as a plot device to move the story forawrd, his actions, wants/desires have no actual impact on the story and his character has basically no redeeming qualities and has no recognizable character traits besides overwhelming cowardice. Him and Rose have no romantic chemistry, and the kiss at the end was cringe inducing. John Boyega is so charming that he's tricking people into this character isn't an abject failure but it actually is.

6. The actress who plays Rose is good, the character is bad.
I like kelly marie tran, she is charming, her physical presence adds freshness, people who look like her don't get these roles. but she suffers from the same fat as film, she is a plot device and an obvious one at that.

7. They have struck out on every non Poe supporting character.
Maz Kanata? Trash
Captain phasma? Trash
The hacker? Trash
Rose? Trash

I could go on, even Laura Derns character is not great.

8. Rian Johnson is talented and the best director to ever direct a stars wars film. Miss me with the slander.

It's obvious from the red room sequence, the laura dern lightspeed kamakazi run, the salt planet show down, the opening bomb run. This is the work of dude with serious command of the medium. Miss me with the Rian Johnson slander from a directorial perspective. Dude has the goods, I want to see him with a clean slate and a better script.

9. Yoda puppet is good.

Gotta admit, I wanted to be jaded, but as it started I couldn't help but smile. This was extremely dope. Not only to bring Yoda back, but to bring him back as the puppet and bring him back as the mischievous, trickster role was great, I had a smile on my face the whole time.

10. The casino sequence was terrible.

This should be obvious. Garbage, and a complete waste of time.
 
I don't think people are arguing that the prequels are better movies. They are mostly certainly not. It is just that there was point to them, characters had motivations.

They were poorly executed but it achieved its goal, it show how the Empire came to be and explain why Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side.

Kylo is somewhat interesting because we have no idea wtf is going on in his head. Dude is emo for the shake of being emo.

Like what is the point of this trilogy if they are rebooting the rebellion is 2/3 of the way through. To set up episode 10-12?

What was he point of the Force Awakens if all the seeds it planted get thrown away

What is the point of Last Jedi's buffoonery if it all leads to a struggle 1 v 1 in the next move to close out the series.

It is a well made and well directed movie. But it is a **** sequel to Force Awakens, and a **** setup for the last movie.
 
As someone who watched Ep 4 for the first time ever Thusday, Ep 5 Friday, (read plots for 6 and 7 because I had no time to watch) and watched Ep 8 on Saturday (cause the tickets were already bought and I didnt wanna leave my friend hanging even though I didnt watch 4-7 as I had planned) its pretty fascinating to read Star Wars fans bicker about things.

Not surprisingly because the expectations were set too high and I already knew most of the plot points just from pop culture, I wasnt blown away by episodes 4 and 5 but they were cool. TLJ was cool too but I gotta admit, I had a newfound appreciation for the two OG movies I watched after watching this one. Gonna watch 6 and 7 sometime this week and then maybe the prequels when I have a lot of free time.
 
I agree with this post 100%

It’s okay to dislike Star Wars: The Last Jedi. Your opinion is your own and no one can take that away from you. However, there’s something rotten in the Star Wars fanbase. People on the internet have decided to devote countless hours to tearing down a movie that plenty of others love. And while no movie is perfect — Star Wars: The Last Jedi least of all — what’s the point in taking the fun out of movies? Is it retribution for a ruined childhood or vindication that your opinion is right? Or is all this backlash to The Last Jedi simply another product of the internet’s penchant for knee-jerk reactions and instantaneous gratification?

This past weekend, Star Wars: The Last Jedi opened to critical fanfare and skyrocketing box office numbers. But those accomplishments have been overshadowed by a looming force in the sci-fi franchise’s fandom. Some fans are calling it the worst Star Wars movie yet. A few more are harassing director Rian Johnson on Twitter. Others are petitioning that Last Jedi be removed from the series canon immediately. And the difference between the Rotten Tomatoes user and critical scores are very wide. So let’s examine what caused this rift between the critical community and the die-hard fans, and whether it says something about the movie itself, or a growing toxicity in fandom at large.

Burn It All Down
It started Thursday night, immediately after the highly anticipated early screenings of Star Wars: The Last Jedi. Tweets began pouring in with claims that The Last Jedi was the worst Star Wars film yet and that its shoddy plotting and characterization were on par with the prequels — which, I would like to remind people, were pretty well-received at first.

Now, some valid criticisms were made about the film, which explicitly tore down the lore and legacy that the previous films had built up and refused to answer questions to fan theories that had been bubbling for the past two years. Jacob Hall says better than me why exactly this works, but like all movies, Last Jedi isn’t immune to criticism. First, the overly long run time and extraneous subplots and characters — Canto Bight especially — were some of the film’s biggest missteps. The abundance of wry humor and winking jokes may have worn thin on fans who expected a grim, serious follow-up to the nostalgic Star Wars: The Force Awakens. And then there’s the absence of nostalgia altogether, a quest to “let the past die.” (Though arguably, in handing the power back to the ordinary people, it’s more loyal to the intention of the original trilogy than ever.)

And while I don’t necessarily agree with them, there are plenty of thoughtful critics and fans who are laying out meaningful criticisms of Last Jedi — Joanna Robinson at Vanity Fair gives a detailed breakdown of the reasons that Last Jedi didn’t quite work with fans.

However, there’s a difference between criticizing something and doing this:



This was just the beginning. Petitions have sprung up demanding that Rian Johnson apologize for his movie, or that Disney remake The Last Jedi altogether. And don’t check Rian Johnson’s Twitter feed if you have any empathy towards fellow human beings: users are sending nasty messages in response to his tweets, often complaining about inane issues like “too many close-ups.”

Plenty more are refusing to acknowledge that Last Jedi is canonical at all, largely on account of the movie’s treatment of Mark Hamill’s Luke Skywalker. The movie takes a radical approach by painting the former hero as a complex, broken man who has fled from his duties as a Jedi, guilt-ridden over a fleeting moment of weakness in which he nearly killed his nephew. And fans who are condemning the film are being fueled by Hamill’s own admission that he too was initially disappointed by Johnson’s take on Luke:

“I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.’”
Click to expand...

But Hamill walked back that statement, later telling Variety that “it took me a while to get around to his way of thinking. But once I was there, it was a thrilling experience. I hope it will be for the audience, too.” But with a small, vocal subset of the fandom steadily dominating the conversation surrounding The Last Jedi, it seems like it wasn’t.

Rotten Luck or a Deliberate Campaign?
The complaints range from the ones mentioned above, to hysterical accusations that Star Wars has been taken over by the “liberal SJWs” or race-tinged complaints about new characters like Rose Tico. When limited to Twitter, they would be easily ignored, but those complaints have made it over to Rotten Tomatoes, where The Last Jedi boasts the biggest difference between a critical and audience score in any Star Wars film yet.

last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes.png


This gives a huge contrast to other polls that measure audience reaction like CinemaScore, where Last Jedi scored an “A,” and IMDB, where user ratings give the film a 7.9 out of 10. So why the disparity? Online scores are often skewed toward reactionary fans who have more extreme opinions about movies. So it’s possible that the subset of the fandom who absolutely despised the movie could have overrun the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.

But something more sinister may be afoot. One Facebook user claimed to be manipulating the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes through bot accounts, though this cannot be confirmed.


In response to the negative audience reactions on Rotten Tomatoes, Disney president of theatrical distribution Dave Hollis released a statement to Deadline:

“Rian Johnson, the cast, and the Lucasfilm team have delivered an experience that is totally Star Wars yet at the same time fresh, unexpected and new. That makes this a Star Wars film like audiences have never seen – it’s got people talking, puzzling over its mysteries, and it’s a lot to take in, and we see that as all positive, that should help set the film up for great word-of-mouth and repeat viewing as we enter the lucrative holiday period.”
Click to expand...

Whether the Rotten Tomatoes audience score will make much of an impact is uncertain — though with The Last Jedi‘s $220 million haul this weekend, probably not — but it is certain that Disney should not be apologizing for fan reactions to the film. Studios previously have not had to apologize for the way a film played with audiences, nor have directors have had to explain themselves to fans. It’s part of a growing phenomenon in franchises with passionate fans, and it’s not good.

Crisis on Infinite Fandoms
This isn’t the first time that a movie has found itself victim to malicious fan campaigns. Paul Feig’s all-female reboot of Ghostbusters was perhaps the most infamous victim of internet ire, receiving hundreds of negative IMDB scores before the film even came out.

On the other side, Justice League and Batman v Superman fans came out in droves to attack critics who disliked the films, convinced that critics were out to tank the film or that Disney — which owns rival superhero company Marvel — was buying out critics to give the films negative reviews. Hilariously, the “Disney is bribing critics” conspiracy theory is coming back for Last Jedi too, but time time it’s for…good reviews?

In both cases, and in the case of The Last Jedi, it comes down to fans feeling ownership of a franchise — ownership that they don’t have. It’s when passion turns to possessiveness that fandom turns toxic. It’s like a weaponized version of the death of the author theory: that the subject shouldn’t be interpreted based on the author’s biases or influences. But while it’s valid to have your own interpretations of your favorite movie, text, or characters, that doesn’t make it the only universal truth.

We’ve seen this fandom ownership spring up long before the internet came about — Sherlock Holmes fans wrote to Arthur Conan Doyle demanding that he bring back the detective after he was killed off in “The Final Problem” — but campaigns have grown in size and malice since fandom went global. Social media and internet forums have helped to cultivate dangerously possessive ideas of fandom. And The Last Jedi backlash is just the latest example of that.

Like What You Like
Just don’t tell others what they can’t like. That’s the easy solution to all this hoopla. While we perhaps can’t persuade others that their opinions are wrong — it’s their opinion after all — perhaps we can all be a little bit kinder and remember: it’s entertainment. George Lucas conceived of Star Wars as a children’s film, and to an extent it still is. No, I’m not calling out ignorant man-babies who are harassing directors or petitioning for a new movie — though you better watch yourselves — I’m calling attention to the fact that these films are made to be enjoyed. Maybe don’t make it your mission to spoil everyone else’s fun.


http://www.slashfilm.com/last-jedi-backlash/
 
RustyShackleford said:
I don't think people are arguing that the prequels are better movies. They are mostly certainly not. It is just that there was point to them, characters had motivations.

They were poorly executed but it achieved its goal, it show how the Empire came to be and explain why Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side.

Kylo is somewhat interesting because we have no idea wtf is going on in his head. Dude is emo for the shake of being emo.

Like what is the point of this trilogy if they are rebooting the rebellion is 2/3 of the way through. To set up episode 10-12?

What was he point of the Force Awakens if all the seeds it planted get thrown away

What is the point of Last Jedi's buffoonery if it all leads to a struggle 1 v 1 in the next move to close out the series.

It is a well made and well directed movie. But it is a **** sequel to Force Awakens, and a **** setup for the last movie.
Click to expand...

I would argue that TFA put Rian Johnson in a tough spot.

That movie set up characters, and plots that were flawed from the jump, it didn't really give us any context about the world and instead just did New Hope kareoke.
 
Like you would think TFA, would set up why the empire was back, what snokes deal was, ect ect.

Its because they didn't do that they had to make a bunch of things red herrings in this movie.

no time to explain snoke so he gets x-ed out, same for phasma.


if anything it makes go back and appreciate new hope (my least favorite of the originals) with how perfectly it sets up the trilogy.
 
jaypesoz said:
Flipping through the art book now and Rey being trained with multiple Jedi Training Balls was would’ve been a dope sequence to see. Hell, an actual training montage was definitely needed.

And seeing all the FO vehicles all headed to Luke’s Island would’ve been quite the visual treat too.


169DCF16-EBFA-483C-A2DF-DD65B576BDE7.jpeg
766BAF04-C6D0-4419-8A23-EBF1EC93D1B1.jpeg
Click to expand...

I love those art books :pimp:
 
gregzzy23 said:
As someone who watched Ep 4 for the first time ever Thusday, Ep 5 Friday, (read plots for 6 and 7 because I had no time to watch) and watched Ep 8 on Saturday (cause the tickets were already bought and I didnt wanna leave my friend hanging even though I didnt watch 4-7 as I had planned) its pretty fascinating to read Star Wars fans bicker about things.

Not surprisingly because the expectations were set too high and I already knew most of the plot points just from pop culture, I wasnt blown away by episodes 4 and 5 but they were cool. TLJ was cool too but I gotta admit, I had a newfound appreciation for the two OG movies I watched after watching this one. Gonna watch 6 and 7 sometime this week and then maybe the prequels when I have a lot of free time.
Click to expand...

kobeoverbron said:
Welcome aboard!
:pimp:
Click to expand...

Ditto. Don't forget Rogue One.
Liked that movie over these Sequels cause grew up with the Originals style. Then 1-3 as an after thought.
 
osh kosh bosh said:
I would argue that TFA put Rian Johnson in a tough spot.

That movie set up characters, and plots that were flawed from the jump, it didn't really give us any context about the world and instead just did New Hope kareoke.
Click to expand...
Then that is on Disney.

Dude was hired to make a sequel to TFA, he made a good movie, not denying the movie was not well made, it but was a **** sequel.

Maybe if Abrams did all three things would be more coherent. Maybe if Rian did both they would be better. But we will never know.

Now we have two good movies, both flawed, but that don't work well as a unit.

I am sure Rian own trilogy will not have these issues, they will probably be lit, but the fact remains he knew he was making a sequel, and he said **** it. And that decision created issues

And if Abrams says **** it too, then this whole trilogy suffers.
 
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