The Arizona Immigration Bill has been passed

[gil23]

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

It's laughable that the Latino people in this thread feel that it is almost a right and given that all Mexicans who cross the border deserve to be here. As if illegal immigration is truthfully not a problem and should be encouraged. And they bring up the topic of Ellis Island. Ellis Island was made to encourage immigrants and welcome them. Used to build America and pump money into the economy, to LEGALLY inspect people and make sure their papers were in order. It was opened and then closed. It was an opportunity NOT a free-for-all. People think because America is "free" that means everyone is allowed in. There are specific reasons as too why becoming a citizen is a long process. If it wasn't, this country would turn into China with 6 billion people all across the globe packed in.

Yeah lets ignore protocol and allow everyone at any time, and not make them go through a process, to get proper identification. And lets ignore protocol all under the title of "Freedom for all."

Next time I go to a Kanye concert I'll protest because they are only letting dimes backstage to meat Ye and GOOD Music. They are descriminating to males and it's wrong, and they are treating me like an "animal". Taking away my freedom to walk backstage.

And EVERYONE should be profiled? Maybe the Constitution is not so much a strong point in how this country does things.... right?

I feel EVERYBODY should be checked for citizenship.

-The Juice

ILL PRAY FOR U

 

[essential1]

And that is why nothing gets done, mischaracterization of the opposition's argument and then coming up with ridiculous analogies that make no sense.Did anyone in this thread say there should be automatic citizenship for all illegals.. NO. So don't act like it has been said over and over here.....Good job sir you have added nothing to the debate...And we have all been made dumber by your insanely ridiculous diatribe.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Nike Star Jay

But that isn't what I'm interested in. [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]There should be an easy way for an immigrant to become a legal resident/citizen of a country of their choosing.[/color] I can admit that I am not honestly 100% certain how someone goes from living in, say, Mexico to then becoming a citizen of the US LEGALLY. I understand the VISA program, but isn't that only temporary residency?

See, what I'm getting at is [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]there should be a focus on encouraging legal immigration, rather than scaring the people that are already in here[/color]. There doesn't seem to be incentive to go through all the legal processes involved in becoming legal since it isn't (from my perspective) a very clear procedure to begin with.

The two bold statements I disagree with. We don't need to make our immigration laws any softer nor do we need to be encouraging legal immigration (or any form of immigration) at this time.


You have a point about it being a difficult time to encourage legal immigration.

But if they are here illegally and are going to be here illegally regardless at this time, if it is such a burden on all of us which to an extent it is, we need to make a way so they are not scared for their lives and come here illegally or stay illegally. We don't have to make them citizens today give them a 3 year path or something along those lines. And if they want to stay and then go back after they accrue some "wealth" we give them a work visa and tax more money than a work visa with the intention of becoming a citizen. So we can brush up the problem for now and have the goals to put a strong criteria that not only encourages immigration while at the same time to keep illegal immigration numbers down in the future.

And by easy way I don't think he means soften immigration laws... At least that's how I see it.. It means a more easier way to apply to be a citizen and ways to get here easier. Instead of it being so complicated that it encourages illegal immigration.

If I were given a form that I have to fill out 100 pages, I'll probably find a way around it. If I am given a form that is of equal strength that I have to fill out only 10 pages I am more likely to fill it out and take the proper measures.

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

OrenthalJames wrote:

---

It's laughable that the Latino people in this thread feel that it is almost a right and given that all Mexicans who cross the border deserve to be here.

Broad brush we have there

i stopped paying attention to anything he says after he encouraged racial profiling. and, jews and muslims are a race.

 

[finnns2003]

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

 

[orenthaljames]

Originally Posted by gil23

ILL PRAY FOR U

You should pray for youself first. Because you only care about other humans when you color is in question. F outta here Gandhi

-The Juice

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by ChampionEdition

i mean... if ur here illegally... thats illegal.

cant break laws just cause it will work out better for your people.

exactly

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

what are you going to do with the black/white/asian/whomever else gangs?

FYI, not all latino gang members are illegal aliens.

i know what you're getting at, and i completely agree. but the wording you choose makes it seem like it'll have be fine and dandy once the latinos are out.

 

[nyc game]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by NYC game

Well I'm just glad it's not black people getting screwed this time

+1 wawaweewa

  

Seriously.
I can't wait for the people in here who say black people punked them on the metro, to come in here and claim a latino stole their car or bicycle. 

 

[hyper cutter]

Originally Posted by Nike Star Jay

But that isn't what I'm interested in. [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]There should be an easy way for an immigrant to become a legal resident/citizen of a country of their choosing.[/color] I can admit that I am not honestly 100% certain how someone goes from living in, say, Mexico to then becoming a citizen of the US LEGALLY. I understand the VISA program, but isn't that only temporary residency?

See, what I'm getting at is [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]there should be a focus on encouraging legal immigration, rather than scaring the people that are already in here[/color]. There doesn't seem to be incentive to go through all the legal processes involved in becoming legal since it isn't (from my perspective) a very clear procedure to begin with.

The two bold statements I disagree with. We don't need to make our immigration laws any softer nor do we need to be encouraging legal immigration (or any form of immigration) at this time.


I see what your saying. I wasn't thinking about pop. control at the time I wrote that. I was speaking on a general platform, since that seems like what the discussion became at parts. Still, if the US wants to continue to be THE BEST, why not encourage those who happen to be really good at whatever it is they do to migrate over here? Wouldn't you want to recruit the best thinkers, workers, etc to your team?

Would you agree that the US has taken a hit in popularity in the last few decades (especially this last one)? People maybe don't feel like contributing to the overall prestige of this country since they are scared off by the dissent of its own people.

By the way, this isn't only about Mexican immigrants (though it's pretty obvious this is why the law was put in place). I'm speaking to immigration in general. You have to take this law at its word and expect that the law WON'T single out latinos.

Well, I guess it is ONLY an Arizona law and there are generally latino immigrants in that particular state. So I guess, we have to be specific in discussing this law after all.

So when I say we should welcome the elite to migrate over and help bring our reputation, I believe that; however, in states where there are illegal immigrants, who haven't shown enough determination to find a way to become legal by now, then sure, SOMETHING probably does need to be done to mitigate the overflow there. Still, I disagree that pulling over a kid who "looks"like his name is Pedro Gonzales Rodriguez III is the most efficient way of ensuring that all of your people are legal.

I don't think I want to involve much more time in this discussion anyway, since it hasn't even been a week with this thing in effect. We are all mostly just talking out of our butts. Let's actually experience this thing for a while.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by AZwildcats

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by AZwildcats

Some of you are making some pretty absurd arguments when it comes to illegal immigration. First you don't just have the right to be wherever you want. If you illegally entered a country like France for example best believe they would ship you out. You cheat the people who entered the country legally and waited for citizenship. I definitely don't agree that racial profiling is the answer but something needs to be done.

You do know this country was built on illegal immigration right?

No one is saying illegal immigration is a great thing.. But there's no reason to treat illegal immigrants like primitive animals that deserve no respect and no concern from people.

The country was also built by bringing in African slaves. Does that justify slavery? Illegal immigrants shouldn't be treated like animals and if i came off like i was saying that i was not. However they don't have a right to just go wherever they want. Times have changed 

Of course the way our country was built doesn't mean they should be able to travel freely without constraints. It is just to give a matter of perspective... We shouldn't demonize illegal immigrants for being here if that is what our founders did.. Now with slavery it is wrong no matter the circumstance so we cannot establish that it would be ok today because that was how America was built. Where as immigration was a way as a new & free life which makes it ok.. what they did with it wasn't ok.. All it is, is to give a matter of perspective and if we ignore that perspective we are not being genuine in this debate

This is a straw man argument.

Humans are inherently all immigrants because the Genus H omo (

) originated in Africa and immigrated to other lands.

So. Should all countries accept for those on the African Continent have lax immigration policies because "at one point time!" their land was built through immigration?

 

[orenthaljames]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

OH NO! dont bring logic into this thread. People only see color and NOT the problem. Illegal immigrants have the RIGHT to be here and should be allowed to roam free.

And CWrite78 you stopped paying attention because you have no arguement to stand on. I encourage everyone being checked. And it's really sad that some of you have no idea that some people have never heard that Judaism is often classified as a race and religion and is also recognized as a race in Supreme Court. And many rabbis recognize it as a race.

the problem we have is cops (another word for 'white people') are no longer allowed to regulate anything involving color/minorities and that is the issue.

-The Juice

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

what are you going to do with the black/white/asian/whomever else gangs?

FYI, not all latino gang members are illegal aliens.

i know what you're getting at, and i completely agree. but the wording you choose makes it seem like it'll have be fine and dandy once the latinos are out.

Yeah, the Mexican Mafia hated immigrants. Latino and immigrant are not interchangable words.

  

 

[cwrite78]

How about if we catch you coming into our country illegally, we deport you back home ASAP and the "probationary period" would be that you have to wait X amount of years before you are able to come back to America legally and apply for legal citizenship. That way we are scaring off the potential illegal immigrants and encouraging potential immigrants to look into a more legitimate way of crossing the border.


this already happens. if you get deported, i believe there is a 10 year minimum to get back into the country. and if you get caught coming in illegally again, you are put in jail for a certain amount of time + deportation again.

and, that's not going to scare off anybody. it's happened for years, and people still come in.

i hope this AZ bill opens the administration's eyes to see that our immigration system is screwed up. and that we have to fix it, because thing will only get worse on both sides if this catches on.

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

OH NO! dont bring logic into this thread. People only see color and NOT the problem. Illegal immigrants have the RIGHT to be here and should be allowed to roam free.

And CWrite78 you stopped paying attention because you have no arguement to stand on. I encourage everyone being checked. And it's really sad that some of you have no idea that some people have never heard that Judaism is often classified as a race and religion and is also recognized as a race in Supreme Court. And many rabbis recognize it as a race.

the problem we have is cops (another word for 'white people') are no longer allowed to regulate anything involving color/minorities and that is the issue.

-The Juice

Prison statistics easily prove that's a false assesment.
  

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

It's laughable that the Latino people in this thread feel that it is almost a right and given that all Mexicans who cross the border deserve to be here. As if illegal immigration is truthfully not a problem and should be encouraged. And they bring up the topic of Ellis Island. Ellis Island was made to encourage immigrants and welcome them. Used to build America and pump money into the economy, to LEGALLY inspect people and make sure their papers were in order. It was opened and then closed. It was an opportunity NOT a free-for-all. People think because America is "free" that means everyone is allowed in. There are specific reasons as too why becoming a citizen is a long process. If it wasn't, this country would turn into China with 6 billion people all across the globe packed in.

Yeah lets ignore protocol and allow everyone at any time, and not make them go through a process, to get proper identification. And lets ignore protocol all under the title of "Freedom for all."

Next time I go to a Kanye concert I'll protest because they are only letting dimes backstage to meat Ye and GOOD Music. They are descriminating to males and it's wrong, and they are treating me like an "animal". Taking away my freedom to walk backstage.

And EVERYONE should be profiled? Maybe the Constitution is not so much a strong point in how this country does things.... right?

I feel EVERYBODY should be checked for citizenship.

-The Juice


I agree with this.  As an American citizen, why is it my responsibility to care for a person who is in the country illegally.  They are coming over here using our welfare programs and getting free healthcare and finding loopholes to become citizens.  They have a crazy number of children who 75% of aren't going to be positive members of society, our country is already over populated.  I feel as if they are stealing from me and every other citizen in this country who has the right to be here legally.  Sure you can say we all came here as immigrants, but that was like 300 years ago.  This isn't a free country anymore, you can't just walk over and do whatever you want.  Our border patrols need to be more strict if anything.  And you can say they take jobs Americans don't want, hell I know people that have been out of work for a year and would go out and work in fields for a pay check.

 

[wawaweewa]

March 20, 1988
[h1]Illegal Aliens Depress Wages for Some in U.S.[/h1]
AP

WASHINGTON, March 19— Illegal aliens are depressing wages and worsening working conditionsfor legal immigrants and native Americans in low-skilled and low-payingjobs, the General Accounting Office says.

Citing empirical data and several case studies, the accounting office,an investigative arm of Congress, said Friday that United States-borncitizens and legally documented immigrants were being hurt, especiallythose working as janitors and food processors.

The report identified restaurants and companies producing automobileparts, shoes and clothing as others that often employ illegal aliens.The aliens' willingness to work in low-skill jobs for less than theminimum wage in those industries has depressed wages and benefits forcomparable native and legal immigrants, the G.A.O. said. But it alsosaid the low wages paid illegal aliens allowed some of the businessesto grow or survive foreign competition, indirectly expanding jobopportunities and wages for higher-skilled workers in the same trades.

Without a pool of illegal immigrants willing to be garment workers orshoemakers, the accounting office said, many companies would shut down.

It also said restaurants' practice of using illegal immigrants asdishwashers and busboys allowed the businesses to keep their prices lowand expand, providing more jobs for more highly skilled waiters andchefs. The Labor Department disagreed, saying none of the studiessurveyed by the accounting agency offered any concrete evidence of apositive effect from using illegal workers.

The department also disputed the accounting agency's premise that legalworkers would not take many of the low-wage jobs, particularly in theshoe and garment industries. ''The fact is that large numbers of nativeand legal U.S. workers are in the same labor market as illegalworkers,'' the department said. ''Furthermore, if wages were notdepressed by illegal workers, even greater numbers of native and legalworkers would be in that labor market.''

The G.A.O. said the 1986 immigration law and its fines for hiringillegal aliens, if successful, would force wages up for legalimmigrants and natives and cause ''considerable stress'' financiallyfor growers and shoe and garment manufacturers.

Congress asked the accounting office to survey all available studiesand data on illegal immigrants' impact on native and legal immigrantworkers in 1985, when it was considering the employer sanctions thatwere adopted a year later.

The accounting office has now submitted the study to Congress, sayingthat after examining 230 academic and other treatises on the issue itfound scarce useful information. The biggest problem, the G.A.O. said,is that illegal aliens are a hidden population, making it hard toidentify them for use in any empirical study.

About two dozen case studies, however, suggested that employers' use ofillegal aliens has displaced native workers and legal immigrants fromtheir jobs and driven down wages of those who remain.

The most dramatic examples were among janitors and farm and food processing workers in California.

Under contracts negotiated by the Service Employees InternationalUnion, blacks and legal Hispanic immigrants working as janitors atoffice buildings in downtown Los Angeles had won wage and benefitsreaching a peak of $12 an hour by 1983. But a group of nonunionjanitorial services hiring predominantly illegal immigrants began towrestle the best building contracts away from the unionized companies,driving the union scale back down to $4 an hour and less. Of 2,500black janitors under high-wage contracts in 1977, 100 were still paidcomparative wages by 1985.


50 cool points to any that answer why the NYT didn't dare run stories like these for the past 15 years.

Illegal immigration is/was all about depressing wages and keeping the consumer economy going as industry was transported off shore . Nothing more.

 

[josebronx]

most of arizona immigrants arent hispanic and arizona is no where near mexico

you guys are silly, this has nothing to do with race

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Back in college, I took a course on modern scarcity and resources. Professor called it... At the current rate, we cannot afford to have so many people coming into the country with the current resource reserves.


Personally, I hope this is a step towards getting these ridiculous Latino gangs out of here. I'm sick of that crap.

OH NO! dont bring logic into this thread. People only see color and NOT the problem. Illegal immigrants have the RIGHT to be here and should be allowed to roam free.

And CWrite78 you stopped paying attention because you have no arguement to stand on. I encourage everyone being checked. And it's really sad that some of you have no idea that some people have never heard that Judaism is often classified as a race and religion and is also recognized as a race in Supreme Court. And many rabbis recognize it as a race.

the problem we have is cops (another word for 'white people') are no longer allowed to regulate anything involving color/minorities and that is the issue.

-The Juice

Prison statistics easily prove that's a false assesment.
  

truth.com... 1970's 70% of the prison population was white... 2000 70% of the prison population was black.. How the hell did that happen?  Exactly what you think Racial Profiling allowed by the government and carried out by cops.

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by JoseBronx

most of arizona immigrants arent hispanic and arizona is no where near mexico

you guys are silly, this has nothing to do with race

for the love of sweet baby jesus, please tell me you're just trolling. PLEASE. have you looked at a damn map recently? or been to AZ?

I agree with this. As an American citizen, why is it my responsibility to care for a person who is in the country illegally. They are coming over here using our welfare programs and getting free healthcare and finding loopholes to become citizens. They have a crazy number of children who 75% of aren't going to be positive members of society, our country is already over populated. I feel as if they are stealing from me and every other citizen in this country who has the right to be here legally. Sure you can say we all came here as immigrants, but that was like 300 years ago. This isn't a free country anymore, you can't just walk over and do whatever you want. Our border patrols need to be more strict if anything. And you can say they take jobs Americans don't want, hell I know people that have been out of work for a year and would go out and work in fields for a pay check.


does it hurt to be this ignorant? now 75% of american citizens from illegal parents (with the crazy amount of children) are not productive members of society.
PLEASE, show me your stats. second, loopholes to become citizens? do you have any idea how hard it is to become a citizen? sure, marrying somebody seems easy.. but it's far from it. if it was, there would be no illegals. lastly.. nobody is stopping the people you know to go work in the fields.

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa


50 cool points to any that answer why the NYT didn't dare run stories like these for the past 15 years.

Illegal immigration is/was all about depressing wages and keeping the consumer economy going as industry was transported off shore . Nothing more.

This is a controversial law  because of the means to getting illegal imigrants deported, not the actual deportation itself.

  

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by JoseBronx

most of arizona immigrants arent hispanic and arizona is no where near mexico

you guys are silly, this has nothing to do with race

If this is serious, dude, you fail at life.

 

[orenthaljames]

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

the problem we have is cops (another word for 'white people') are no longer allowed to regulate anything involving color/minorities and that is the issue.

-The Juice

Prison statistics easily prove that's a false assesment.
  

than it should prove my assesment TRUE does it not? Is that or is that not a problem?

its a problem in the sense that cops abuse power
and a problem because that abuse by some cops now people are more apprehensive towards regulation.

America is completely filled with nasty cycles that continue to rotate, but in order to stop these cycles, we have to take a chance some times. And like I said in my earlier posts (which were probably lost in here because people don't read or comprehend.) This is an opportune time for ALL people of color to unite and make a change.

-The Juice

 

[josebronx]

Originally Posted by airblaster503

Originally Posted by JoseBronx

most of arizona immigrants arent hispanic and arizona is no where near mexico

you guys are silly, this has nothing to do with race

If this is serious, dude, you fail at life.

sarcasm bro, sarcasm 

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by OrenthalJames

Originally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49

OrenthalJames wrote:

---

the problem we have is cops (another word for 'white people') are no longer allowed to regulate anything involving color/minorities and that is the issue.

-The Juice

Prison statistics easily prove that's a false assesment.
  

than it should prove my assesment TRUE does it not? Is that or is that not a problem?

its a problem in the sense that cops abuse power
and a problem because that abuse by some cops now people are more apprehensive towards regulation.

America is completely filled with nasty cycles that continue to rotate, but in order to stop these cycles, we have to take a chance some times. And like I said in my earlier posts (which were probably lost in here because people don't read or comprehend.) This is an opportune time for ALL people of color to unite and make a change.

-The Juice



we shouldn't put all the blame on white cops tho.

i've gotten harassed by minorities (especially hispanics that feel god like because they are on the "man's" side now) more than white cops. at least, that's how i see it.