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Please don't ever lump State's program with Arizona's again. State (and Cuse for that matter) is levels above Arizona.
Edit - Maybe not "levels", but not the same tier of program.
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The College Basketball Post
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by allen3xis,
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Edit - Maybe not "levels", but not the same tier of program.
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RoOk got caught in the moment 
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^^Thinking more about your question, Rook, elite can actually mean many different things in CB, and is dependent on whatever parameters we're judging a program by. If it's championship, NO; recruiting, YES; reg. season wins, SURE; conference championships, SURE; history, NO; etc.
Personally, when I think of elite in an all encompassing manner, I can't help but think of the so called "blue bloods." You're either elite in that sense, or you're some lesser kind of elite.... It's like pedigree and history, you either have it or you don't. It's aristocratic old money vs. bourgeois new money....
I'm a Uconn head and I don't even consider our mens program elite, even though we've accomplished more as far as NCAA championships and Big East conference championships, and have performed about as well as 'Cuse on the matter of reg. season wins go. Our women's program is definitely elite though...
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Personally, when I think of elite in an all encompassing manner, I can't help but think of the so called "blue bloods." You're either elite in that sense, or you're some lesser kind of elite...
. It's like pedigree and history, you either have it or you don't. It's aristocratic old money vs. bourgeois new money.... I'm a Uconn head and I don't even consider our mens program elite, even though we've accomplished more as far as NCAA championships and Big East conference championships, and have performed about as well as 'Cuse on the matter of reg. season wins go. Our women's program is definitely elite though...
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dacomeup
Supporter
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Yep, UCONN isn't an elite and they've won 2 titles in the 2000s. We're calling Zona one off winning in the 90s? I know they had a long streak of making the tourney for a while too. I think that there are legit 4 or 5 programs that go in that category.
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When I think of Zona bball first thing is the 05 Elite 8 meltdown
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salim
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Hassan Adams was that dude too.
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Mike Bibby in blue foams is the first thing that comes to mind.
& they should have never taken the cactus off of their court design. That joint was so
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Those early 2000 squads were filthy, though.
& they should have never taken the cactus off of their court design. That joint was so
Those early 2000 squads were filthy, though.
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as someone who grew up in a place completely ignorant to college basketball.
UNC
Duke
Kentucky
Kansas
thos would be the only programs with brand recognition up here for wahtever thats worth
My dad went to UCONN so I knew UCONN, and Syracuse is the closest american city so I knew syracuse but Zona? no way.
but in terms of recruiting there's always gotta be a western team right?
I guess you should really have 1 western squad that will function as a blue blood program simply by recruiting the west coast, so since UCLA is in termoil Zona is an elite school in terms of the recruits it can get, but not in terms of brand recognition. that make sense?
plus it just seems like people care more in arizona then they do in LA.
UNC
Duke
Kentucky
Kansas
thos would be the only programs with brand recognition up here for wahtever thats worth
My dad went to UCONN so I knew UCONN, and Syracuse is the closest american city so I knew syracuse but Zona? no way.
but in terms of recruiting there's always gotta be a western team right?
I guess you should really have 1 western squad that will function as a blue blood program simply by recruiting the west coast, so since UCLA is in termoil Zona is an elite school in terms of the recruits it can get, but not in terms of brand recognition. that make sense?
plus it just seems like people care more in arizona then they do in LA.
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IMO I'd say Kentucky, UCLA, Duke, UNC, Kansas and Indiana are elite. I think people can make a case for schools like uconn, mich st. and Louisville, but I agree with you guys who say that they're just a notch below
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UCLA the last few years has messed up their brand. 
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Watch the lift when Dawson returns. Let Payne and Appling get fully healthy. Trice and Valentine improving with the increase in minutes. Izzo in March.
Appreciate the Jersey love, but Nick Johnson is the guy.
Low key candidates are Joseph Young, Chasson Randle, C.J. Wilcox, and of course Carson.
Edwin been ballin' for Hall as of late.St. John's
Gotta handle buisness against Georgetown & Butler at home, then a chance for a huge win against Nova.
It really comes down to Feb. 22nd at Nova since SJU dropped the ball at a Cuse upset earlier in the season.
6 tourney appearances in 7 years at UCLA. Lavin needs this one badly for SJU, would make 2 appearances in 4 years. Fearful the Red Storm find a way to miss the party.Nick Johnson has to win it.
Lavin about to make the tournament and inch away from the hot seat
Think y'all are casting the net of the CBB elite jobs a lot wider than I would. A lot of these jobs are coach dependent IMO.
Slim and Frye. Will never forgive the Illini.
Taking it back. Damon Stoudamire, Dickerson, Gil, Khalid Reeves.Mike Bibby in blue foams is the first thing that comes to mind.
& they should have never taken the cactus off of their court design. That joint was so.
Those early 2000 squads were filthy, though.
Loren Woods.
You get the feeling the program lost luster and public prestige transitioning from Calhoun to Ollie.
That Kemba Big East tournament run though. Epic proportions.
Ben Howland was so close to a crowning achievement in '06 and '07. Some of the talent he pumped out was ridiculous. Russy, Love, Collison, Jrue, Mbah a Moute, Shipp, Farmar.UCLA the last few years has messed up their brand.
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If you call Arizona an elite program, then you have to include Syracuse in my opinion...
The ELITES (in no order) are Duke, UNC, KU, UK, UCLA (realized they have dropped off but overall body of work is insane, have to include them)...I think that's where it ends. Next up would be Michigan State, Indiana, Cuse, UCONN, Arizona...
The ELITES (in no order) are Duke, UNC, KU, UK, UCLA (realized they have dropped off but overall body of work is insane, have to include them)...I think that's where it ends. Next up would be Michigan State, Indiana, Cuse, UCONN, Arizona...
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Louisville has to be in that second group.
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Yup, agreed. I was just going off the teams that came to mind, forgot about L'Ville.....(it's early Friday morning)
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Maybe it's not a blue blood but Arizona is an elite job because a) its a basketball school b) it is the premier program for a major conference c) its the easiest schools to recruit to in the country d) it has a solid history.
Plus, I'd say it doesn't have as much pressure as a Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas job has...and everyone putting those programs so much ahead of others, those programs can slip quite easily. IF UCLA and Indiana get it together and win something in the next few years, they are right back in that blue blood elite category. Rankings are all superflous. Is Duke still elite when Coach K leaves? He built that program single handidly, tough for me to say it stays the same without him. Hard to live up to the legacy he left, not sure I would want to be the guy stepping into that role (then again I don't have the toughness that makes WoJo, WoJo). Same for Cuse when Boeheim leaves.
Coaches always make the job and any program can fall off work to Billy Gillepsie and Matt Doherety. But there are always jobs that are more appealing than others. Zona is one of those that sticks out to me as an easy job in some ways. The Pac-12 is sort of a step below the elite bball conferences, you get the pick of the litter for west coast kids and an abundance of kids all over the country waiting to escape the winter and bang rich blond chicks in campus pools in mid-January.
Plus, I'd say it doesn't have as much pressure as a Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas job has...and everyone putting those programs so much ahead of others, those programs can slip quite easily. IF UCLA and Indiana get it together and win something in the next few years, they are right back in that blue blood elite category. Rankings are all superflous. Is Duke still elite when Coach K leaves? He built that program single handidly, tough for me to say it stays the same without him. Hard to live up to the legacy he left, not sure I would want to be the guy stepping into that role (then again I don't have the toughness that makes WoJo, WoJo). Same for Cuse when Boeheim leaves.
Coaches always make the job and any program can fall off work to Billy Gillepsie and Matt Doherety. But there are always jobs that are more appealing than others. Zona is one of those that sticks out to me as an easy job in some ways. The Pac-12 is sort of a step below the elite bball conferences, you get the pick of the litter for west coast kids and an abundance of kids all over the country waiting to escape the winter and bang rich blond chicks in campus pools in mid-January.
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mr marcus
Banned
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Unc will always be an elite program whether they win or lose...the name rings in cbb
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I think it's safe to include Florida in that 2nd tier based off the last decade and a half. Possibly Ohio State as well.
Tho Billy D has done a great job there, I'd love to see someone like Shaka take the keys to UF and see what kind of damage he could do with a program like that.
Tho Billy D has done a great job there, I'd love to see someone like Shaka take the keys to UF and see what kind of damage he could do with a program like that.
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Ehhh, Billy D is a great coach and Florida is a football school. Can't see anyone surpassing what Billy D has done there, especially considering that they could hang another banner from the ceiling this year.
If we are talking football schools, I think Texas is the sleeping giant. Low-pressue job, state with an abundance of talent, awesome place to go to college, can get out of state kids easy, good conference. I would have jumped on that job if I were a Shaka/G. Marshall if Rick Barnes wasn't saving his job right now
If we are talking football schools, I think Texas is the sleeping giant. Low-pressue job, state with an abundance of talent, awesome place to go to college, can get out of state kids easy, good conference. I would have jumped on that job if I were a Shaka/G. Marshall if Rick Barnes wasn't saving his job right now
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I just don't see Arizona as an elite PROGRAM...is it an easy place to recruit to? Sure. Premier program in the Pac 12? This year yeah...but go look at them from 2005-2012. They don't have the history like UCLA, UNC does to be able to afford 7ish down years...You also said UA has a solid history...well, we could include A LOT of programs with a solid history.
Just think the Elite programs are Duke, UNC, UK, KU, UCLA.
Second tier is L'Ville, Michigan State, UA, Florida, Indiana, Cuse, Arizona, UCONN...
Just think the Elite programs are Duke, UNC, UK, KU, UCLA.
Second tier is L'Ville, Michigan State, UA, Florida, Indiana, Cuse, Arizona, UCONN...
dacomeup
Supporter
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Amp, your point about being "less pressure" at Zona is exactly why it's not a top elite. Those type of programs get rid of coaches for no national titles. That's why KU, UK, UNC, UCLA immediately stick out.
I've went back and forth on Duke before, but I say no.
OSU and Florida are definitely in that 2nd tier, I agree with Matta.
I've went back and forth on Duke before, but I say no.
OSU and Florida are definitely in that 2nd tier, I agree with Matta.
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I know I soumd like a homer but Indiana doesn't belong in that 2nd group. They have a much stronger history than any of those other teams. I know the last 20 years are rough but before that they are as good as anybody not named UCLA.
I guess Zona isn't in the "blue bloods elite" but I can't think of more than two better jobs in the country *shurgs*
I guess Zona isn't in the "blue bloods elite" but I can't think of more than two better jobs in the country *shurgs*
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When I think of CBB, my mind literally thinks of: UK, Kansas, Duke, Zona, UCLA, UNC, Indiana & Syracuse.
Thats just me though. Teams like LVille, Michigan State, UCONN are right there though.
Thats just me though. Teams like LVille, Michigan State, UCONN are right there though.
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