The Evolution of Jordan Brand from a Sig Shoe to a Full Line - Discussion and Insight Needed

[bigj505]

Guys,
I was thinking about things and I figured Id ask for some perspective.

We all know that Jordans started off as a signature shoe.

Most of us also know that towards the end of Jordans Bulls career, Nike/JB started doing things to make JB its own line including removing Nike branding from the current sig shoes, creating Team Jordan, and briefly having a womens Jordan sig shoe (need this retro please).

We had players like Ray Allen and Eddie Jones wearing the Team Jordans as they were part of team jordan.

Fast forward a bit and we start getting hybrids to add to the line beginning with what, the Spizikes or the Dub Zeros (around the XX release???)

We also now have athletes that have their own sigs like Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul

Now we still have the Spizikes and Dub Zeros but now we have the 40 acres, futures, and more.

Lastly, we have an abundance of retros that continually drop.

This lead me to thinking that Jordan Brand has fully evolved into its own mirror of Nike Brand.

What I mean is, we are getting Jordan Retros like we get Nike retros but also have another catalog of Jordan products for the "regular" people.

These retros are like how we get uptempos, foamposites, barkleys these days.

The brand has really developed into a full fledged entity if that makes any sensee. Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[HankHill]

I assume more people actually want uptempos, foamposites, and barkley's. As far as respective sig lines, Nike has had a better caliber of athletes over the year incl. superstars, whereas JB just signs good athletes. When it comes to endorsing the brand, Nike just has a stronghold since its been in the game longer. I don't think JB will ever compete on that level.

I'm no longer interested in whatever fusion hybrid either likes to put out and rehash. I was cool with Nike using different sole technology with different uppers (360 Griffeys or Air Max 1s with a lunar sole) and even updating the tech in an old model.

JB on the other just likes mixing stuff from the sig line for the hell of it. I mean, they took the 16s and 17s and made the Jordan 16.5s. Cool, I actually liked those. A few years later the took and 16s and 17s and made the Jordan One6One7. For what?

 

[bigj505]

I assume more people actually want uptempos, foamposites, and barkley's. As far as respective sig lines, Nike has had a better caliber of athletes over the year incl. superstars, whereas JB just signs good athletes. When it comes to endorsing the brand, Nike just has a stronghold since its been in the game longer. I don't think JB will ever compete on that level.

I'm no longer interested in whatever fusion hybrid either likes to put out and rehash. I was cool with Nike using different sole technology with different uppers (360 Griffeys or Air Max 1s with a lunar sole) and even updating the tech in an old model.

JB on the other just likes mixing stuff from the sig line for the hell of it. I mean, they took the 16s and 17s and made the Jordan 16.5s. Cool, I actually liked those. A few years later the took and 16s and 17s and made the Jordan One6One7. For what?

the uptempos, foamposites, and barkley's comparison wasnt to match with the hybrids. that to match with the actual retro shoes like the 1,2,3, etc.

Nike has its own fusions or whever to match up with JB like the 1/2 cents, rookies, barkley posites, etc.

 

[HankHill]

I was comparing those to Team Jordans and other player sigs. More people would rather buy a retro pair of Foamposites and Uptempos than a retro Jumpman Pro or Super Freak. Outside of the Air Jordan sig, Nike has more sought after player sigs currently: Lebrons, KDs, Kyries, and Kobes compered to Melos, CP3, and Blake (Super.Fly).

As good a pair of CP3s may be, its just a Jordan sub-model in my eyes, and not THE Jordan to get. JB knows this so they'll put out xyz model based on an Air Jordan sig and it probably sells more (i.e. Futures).

Lebrons and Kobes on the other hand are stand alone models. There is no Nike 1 or Nike 2 that will make those sigs feel 2nd tier. Lebron even has his sub-model (zoom soldiers).

With Nike I'm looking at a company. With JB, I'm looking at a player and his offerings. For JB to mirror Nike, I feel like they would need to stop releasing Jordan sigs and retros and focus on their other offerings, if that even works. They tried this before with somewhat disassociating the sig line (moving from model number to a year) and that got switched back.

 

[bigj505]

I was comparing those to Team Jordans and other player sigs. More people would rather buy a retro pair of Foamposites and Uptempos than a retro Jumpman Pro or Super Freak. Outside of the Air Jordan sig, Nike has more sought after player sigs currently: Lebrons, KDs, Kyries, and Kobes compered to Melos, CP3, and Blake (Super.Fly).

As good a pair of CP3s may be, its just a Jordan sub-model in my eyes, and not THE Jordan to get. JB knows this so they'll put out xyz model based on an Air Jordan sig and it probably sells more (i.e. Futures).

Lebrons and Kobes on the other hand are stand alone models. There is no Nike 1 or Nike 2 that will make those sigs feel 2nd tier. Lebron even has his sub-model (zoom soldiers).

With Nike I'm looking at a company. With JB, I'm looking at a player and his offerings. For JB to mirror Nike, I feel like they would need to stop releasing Jordan sigs and retros and focus on their other offerings, if that even works. They tried this before with somewhat disassociating the sig line (moving from model number to a year) and that got switched back.

removing retros from JB would probably have the same effect as removing retros from Nike.

its still there in place whether they compare directly or not

Nike Sig Retros line up with Jordan Retros
Nike Sig shoes line up with JB athletes
Nike has "normal" shoes and JB has "normal" shoes

JB has certainly evolved into a full fledged entity whether the non-sig/retro portions line up money-wise or not.

 

[vintageog7]

I agree with this because the scale of JB has grown globally...

They're targeting everyone with feet ya dig..

I totally agree with you bigj505 .

 

[rfx45]

I agree that it is a full pledged entity and numbers speak for themselves.

From last year:

Jordan U.S. shoe sales rose 17% last year to $2.6 billion, according to data compiled by SportScanInfo. Jordan has eight times the sales of the signature shoes for the top active NBA star, LeBron James. Jordan apparel and the international business add more than $1 billion as well. The Jordan Brand commanded 58% market share of the $4.2 billion U.S. basketball shoe market last year, up from 54% in 2013. The Swoosh’s share jumps to 95.5% if you include Nike Basketball. The competition: Adidas (2.6% share), Under Armour UA -0.60% (1%) and Reebok (0.8%).

These numbers may have changed today with UAs continued rise and Adidas gaining a little bit of ground but JB/Nike still rules the basketball shoe market in the US.

 

[schabeugen04]

Yea Jordan brand definitely is a sole entity to me now or could atleast be classified as one. I like the direction the brand is going nowadays. I remember back in 2005 JB had all those LS (lifestyle) releases, which came with matching attire; now this has basically evolved in to their collaborations with brands like; fragment, psny, OVO , etc... This is a way better look because I always found it tacky wearing a complete Jordan brand outfit, and the clothes were often themed after the kicks; though I still love my ceramic 7's with the matching jacket. And we all know Jordan brand sizing is way off, it was even worst back in 2005. My large jacket fit like a XXL at minimum, though nowadays it seem they got the sizing down to a L = XL [emoji]128514[/emoji]. So Jordan brand if you're listening get the sizing down to industry standards. I know MJ likes baggy jeans, but most of us are going for the more fitted look these days.
Another thing I like is that it seems the material quality is on the rise again, my recent 4's I have purchased are way better in quality compared to my Mars Blackmon & military 4's from back in the day.

Sidebar: whatever happened to that gentry guy? I remember old niketalk used to hate this guy [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

 

[bigj505]

Sidebar: whatever happened to that gentry guy? I remember old niketalk used to hate this guy [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

he moved to nike sportswear or something like that. we still hated him over there. he got another job somewhere. we still hate him where ever he went.

 

[mjmoney23]

I agree with what you said BigJ. I will add on to what silkboi said on that JB needs a new go to guy. The only arguable "all tome great" they have is Chris Paul (we can debate him being an all time great at another time). Mello, Blake Griffen, and Russel Westbrook were all very good players, not true superstars though. JB needs to sign THE MAN, or at least the number 2 to carry on the line. Sucks they didn't get Curry. I think they need to go outside the box, maybe KP on the knicks. It will take a bit of luck, but the eventually need to land one of the top 2 players in the league to fully come full circle.

 

[mjmoney23]

Yea Jordan brand definitely is a sole entity to me now or could atleast be classified as one. I like the direction the brand is going nowadays. I remember back in 2005 JB had all those LS (lifestyle) releases, which came with matching attire; now this has basically evolved in to their collaborations with brands like; fragment, psny, OVO , etc... This is a way better look because I always found it tacky wearing a complete Jordan brand outfit, and the clothes were often themed after the kicks; though I still love my ceramic 7's with the matching jacket. And we all know Jordan brand sizing is way off, it was even worst back in 2005. My large jacket fit like a XXL at minimum, though nowadays it seem they got the sizing down to a L = XL [emoji]128514[/emoji]. So Jordan brand if you're listening get the sizing down to industry standards. I know MJ likes baggy jeans, but most of us are going for the more fitted look these days.
Another thing I like is that it seems the material quality is on the rise again, my recent 4's I have purchased are way better in quality compared to my Mars Blackmon & military 4's from back in the day.

Sidebar: whatever happened to that gentry guy? I remember old niketalk used to hate this guy [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

The sizing latley sucks. Plus, the crap material they use on the tshirts has them shrink horribly after one wash. I miss the old baggy sizing. Made me feel skinnier If anything haha. But yea, can we please get better made tshirt that don't shrink horribly after one wash and air dry??

 

[cobrab19]

Absolutely agree. They definitely have a specific customer with each specific model/colorway.

 

[schabeugen04]

he moved to nike sportswear or something like that. we still hated him over there. he got another job somewhere. we still hate him where ever he went.

Now, that was a guy who had no passion.... And didn't take any pride in what he was releasing to the masses.... Those Mars and military 4's were b grades the entire line... Only 4 that was ok back then was my black cats and thunder & lightning pack and even those aren't anything to write home about. Glad he's gone @bigj505. Who runs his spot at Jordan brand now?

 

[schabeugen04]

The sizing latley sucks. Plus, the crap material they use on the tshirts has them shrink horribly after one wash. I miss the old baggy sizing. Made me feel skinnier If anything haha. But yea, can we please get better made tshirt that don't shrink horribly after one wash and air dry??

Lol naw man let them baggy tees go... May work for you thicker fellas... When you a skinny kid built like Chris brown... You start to feel like a 5 year old wearing ya pops work clothes [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] . Nowadays if I have all one brand on is cause I'm at the court it's the only place I feel it's ok to be that matchy

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Guys,
I was thinking about things and I figured Id ask for some perspective.

We all know that Jordans started off as a signature shoe.

Most of us also know that towards the end of Jordans Bulls career, Nike/JB started doing things to make JB its own line including removing Nike branding from the current sig shoes, creating Team Jordan, and briefly having a womens Jordan sig shoe (need this retro please).

We had players like Ray Allen and Eddie Jones wearing the Team Jordans as they were part of team jordan.

Fast forward a bit and we start getting hybrids to add to the line beginning with what, the Spizikes or the Dub Zeros (around the XX release???)

We also now have athletes that have their own sigs like Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul

Now we still have the Spizikes and Dub Zeros but now we have the 40 acres, futures, and more.

Lastly, we have an abundance of retros that continually drop.

This lead me to thinking that Jordan Brand has fully evolved into its own mirror of Nike Brand.

What I mean is, we are getting Jordan Retros like we get Nike retros but also have another catalog of Jordan products for the "regular" people.

These retros are like how we get uptempos, foamposites, barkleys these days.

The brand has really developed into a full fledged entity if that makes any sensee. Anyone agree or disagree?

Jordan is it's own brand but is affiliated with Nike, just like how Nike owns Converse.

 

[bigj505]

Guys,

I was thinking about things and I figured Id ask for some perspective.


We all know that Jordans started off as a signature shoe.


Most of us also know that towards the end of Jordans Bulls career, Nike/JB started doing things to make JB its own line including removing Nike branding from the current sig shoes, creating Team Jordan, and briefly having a womens Jordan sig shoe (need this retro please).


We had players like Ray Allen and Eddie Jones wearing the Team Jordans as they were part of team jordan.


Fast forward a bit and we start getting hybrids to add to the line beginning with what, the Spizikes or the Dub Zeros (around the XX release???)


We also now have athletes that have their own sigs like Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul


Now we still have the Spizikes and Dub Zeros but now we have the 40 acres, futures, and more.


Lastly, we have an abundance of retros that continually drop.


This lead me to thinking that Jordan Brand has fully evolved into its own mirror of Nike Brand.


What I mean is, we are getting Jordan Retros like we get Nike retros but also have another catalog of Jordan products for the "regular" people.


These retros are like how we get uptempos, foamposites, barkleys these days.


The brand has really developed into a full fledged entity if that makes any sensee. Anyone agree or disagree?

Jordan is it's own brand but is affiliated with Nike, just like how Nike owns Converse.

Duh. It's levels to this convo that you just don't understand.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Duh. It's levels to this convo that you just don't understand.

I understand what you saying, Jordan has signature models and other models to choose from. They're like a mini Nike. 

 

[bigj505]

Duh. It's levels to this convo that you just don't understand.

I understand what you saying, Jordan has signature models and other models to choose from. They're like a mini Nike. 

Your commented didn't make it seem that way. We all know JB is a sub of Nike and Nike acquired converse years ago.
You really can't call JB a mini Nike considering it grosses more.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Your commented didn't make it seem that way. We all know JB is a sub of Nike and Nike acquired converse years ago.
You really can't call JB a mini Nike considering it grosses more.

True, but you get what I'm saying. Jordan Brand is trying to/is its own Brand now. That's why we have the signature line and the other models like the Jordan Futures, Spizikes, Dub Zeros, and more. They're not competing with Nike because they're a part of them (I know you know this but I just added it in). 

 

[schabeugen04]

Your commented didn't make it seem that way. We all know JB is a sub of Nike and Nike acquired converse years ago.
You really can't call JB a mini Nike considering it grosses more.

bigj505 save your breathe man.. I love air sak as much as the next guy, but dude is semantic as hell and takes everything so literal...I'd hate to see a good thread become derailed trying to catch him up [emoji]128553[/emoji][emoji]128553[/emoji]

 

[bigj505]

Your commented didn't make it seem that way. We all know JB is a sub of Nike and Nike acquired converse years ago.

You really can't call JB a mini Nike considering it grosses more.

True, but you get what I'm saying. Jordan Brand is trying to/is its own Brand now. That's why we have the signature line and the other models like the Jordan Futures, Spizikes, Dub Zeros, and more. They're not competing with Nike because they're a part of them (I know you know this but I just added it in). 

I was thinking "why are we getting so many retros . Why don't they slow down?"
Then it kind of hit me that it's never going to slow down because each retro is like a separate Nike retro if that makes any sense.

 

[bigj505]

Your commented didn't make it seem that way. We all know JB is a sub of Nike and Nike acquired converse years ago.
You really can't call JB a mini Nike considering it grosses more.

bigj505 save your breathe man.. I love air sak as much as the next guy, but dude is semantic as hell and takes everything so literal...I'd hate to see a good thread become derailed trying to catch him up [emoji]128553[/emoji][emoji]128553[/emoji]

Yea he was just being extra but he gets it.

And to answer your question, I have no clue who runs it now. Dudes been low key IMO.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I was thinking "why are we getting so many retros . Why don't they slow down?"
Then it kind of hit me that it's never going to slow down because each retro is like a separate Nike retro if that makes any sense.

That is true and I believe they want to give people choices. Also think about them receiving negativity for not releasing enough pairs.

 

[Koncrete Kickz]

I get what you are saying J, the last time i went to the mall i saw sooo many females wearing those Team Js that dropped. Over the last few weeks, i saw kids rocking those Futures. I was really surprised  to see that. They have something for every budget and taste, no matter how ugly we think they are.... And now the are going in on the female buyers with all the GS cw coming out... Cant knock the hustle

 

[bigj505]

I was thinking "why are we getting so many retros . Why don't they slow down?"

Then it kind of hit me that it's never going to slow down because each retro is like a separate Nike retro if that makes any sense.

That is true and I believe they want to give people choices. Also think about them receiving negativity for not releasing enough pairs.

It's actually more that they are playing on the allure of wearing the Jumpman. When I was younger, the Jumpman was "sensational" (future voice)