The MMA Thread: DON'T ASK 4 STREAMS & NO GIFS- Cannonier, Imavov, Reyes, Rosas on NOW

Izzy’s wrestling defense is better than Anderson. As well as his kick boxing.

But Anderson definitely had that matrix down pat as well as the ability/timing to KO.

They both have had stinker fights where they both are tentative due to how they’re more counter based fighters.

Sad to see Lewis go out like that.
Izzy may have the better kickboxing pedigree, but I don‘t know if I would say he’s the better kickboxe.

They did fight a couple years ago and even though Izzy won, it was a close competitive fight. Izzy was in his absolute prime and Anderson was a shell of what he used to be at his peak.

…prime Anderson wins imo.
 
The 5th round of the KG fight was definitely an "oh ****" moment for me. Also the 1st bobby knuckles fight. Man's basically KO'd him twice that night.

Izzy is just a class above everyone in the division tbh, even Rob. His defense and ability to control range is some of the best we've ever seen.

Hope he doesn't go up to LHW yet. I want to see him try to reach Silvas title defense streak.
 
Kinda agree, but Andy definitely had a few lack luster fights sprinkled in between his long reign. Izzy is still beginning his reign w/ some high caliber finishes so there still lots of time for highlights.

Damn a prime Silva vs prime adesanya would be those dream matchups.
They're both the best fighters the division has seen. Like Usman and GSP. Rob Whitaker is definitely one of the best MW fighters today. Just like with Colby's predicament at WW, right place, wrong time.

Izzy may have the better kickboxing pedigree, but I don‘t know if I would say he’s the better kickboxe.

They did fight a couple years ago and even though Izzy won, it was a close competitive fight. Izzy was in his absolute prime and Anderson was a shell of what he used to be at his peak.

…prime Anderson wins imo.
I have a friend who thinks Luke Rockhold or Weidman would give Izzy problems. We'll never know. We're in the here and now. Sort of like the insance MJ and Lebron comparisons.

Izzy has a ways before he can touch Anderson's legacy. The numbers show it. Maybe we revisit it IF Izzy beats Strickland and Cannonier.

I'm thinking Shogun or Machida were the champs when Anderson fought Forrest? Maybe he didn't want to fight his country mates. Anderson truly is one of the MMA GOATs. The only marks are the PED violation and he probably stuck around too long.
 
Izzy may have the better kickboxing pedigree, but I don‘t know if I would say he’s the better kickboxe.

They did fight a couple years ago and even though Izzy won, it was a close competitive fight. Izzy was in his absolute prime and Anderson was a shell of what he used to be at his peak.

…prime Anderson wins imo.
That wasn't even his prime though. He was only a year in the UFC.
 
That wasn't even his prime though. He was only a year in the UFC.
It was two years ago.

Adesanya was 29.

That’s right in the middle of any athlete’s physical prime.

And he had a lengthy kickboxing career before that.
 
It was two years ago.

Adesanya was 29.

That’s right in the middle of any athlete’s physical prime.

And he had a lengthy kickboxing career before that.
I don't think Izzy matches Anderson's legacy , but MMA fighters' prime don't hit until early 30s. 20 years of watching MMA you say...
 
People can complain all they want about Izzy's boring fights with Yoel, Jan and Vettori

I have a strong suspicion Prime Anderson wouldn't make it that much more exciting and I actually think he could lose to Jan and Vettori

On the other hand, I would wager Izzy would style on Forest too
 
I have a friend who thinks Luke Rockhold or Weidman would give Izzy problems.
The disrespect :lol::stoneface:


People don't realize the work that he's doing at MW isn't just elite, it's all time great status. As active as he usually is, he'll pass Kamaru by the end of the year and could be close to breaking Silvas by the end of next year.

For every Vettori, Yoel, and Jan you get a KG/Costa/Rob 1. And the way Cannonier and Strickland walk guys down and try to bring the fight, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with the latter.
 
Izzy took the risk of moving up and taking on Jan.

As far as strength of schedule, I give the nod to Izzy over Anderson at the moment. I'd give the edge to Usman over Izzy. I like Whitaker but killers like Leon Edwards, Colby, RDA, and Woodley. Yoel and Whitaker are legit wins high-level wins along Izzy's legacy.
 
Izzy took the risk of moving up and taking on Jan.

As far as strength of schedule, I give the nod to Izzy over Anderson at the moment. I'd give the edge to Usman over Izzy. I like Whitaker but killers like Leon Edwards, Colby, RDA, and Woodley. Yoel and Whitaker are legit wins high-level wins along Izzy's legacy.
Comparing strength of schedule for fighters from different eras is really tough to do.

The sport keeps evolving at a breakneck pace and the skill level and overall athleticism keeps growing. 15 years ago fighters like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Yushin Okami were considered top shelf fighters. 15 years later they don’t look like great wins by today’s standards.

15 years from now, they’ll be saying the same thing about Robert Whittaker, Kelvin Gastelum and Marvin Vettori.
 
Comparing strength of schedule for fighters from different eras is really tough to do.

The sport keeps evolving at a breakneck pace and the skill level and overall athleticism keeps growing. 15 years ago fighters like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Yushin Okami were considered top shelf fighters. 15 years later they don’t look like great wins by today’s standards.

15 years from now, they’ll be saying the same thing about Robert Whittaker, Kelvin Gastelum and Marvin Vettori.
Which is also why it's silly to criticize Izzy for not having every fight being a highlight reel or questioning if he's even had one to begin with :lol:

The better these athletes get, the tougher it obviously is to style on them

Even with that being said, he's had a number of amazing moments against the best fighters in the division

If someone were simply to say: Anderson is ahead of Izzy, fine, fair. Don't gotta add these imaginary criticisms to Izzy on top of it
 
^^^the Better these athletes get. I think that’s why I respect Izzy’s reign.

My friend brought Rockhold and Weidman into the argument. But if you do pointless MMA math…they both got washed by Romero. Honestly it’s so ridiculous. Those dudes haven’t been relevant in years.

Was I bored by the fight last night? Yeah. But I can respect that performance against someone like Bobby Knuckles. Robert is legitimately the 1A to MW fighters right now. Interested in what he does next? Strickland? Move down to 170. Move up to 205? He hasn’t fought Vettori or Costa.
 
Y’all think by the time a potential fight happens that Khamzat could take Izzy?
 
Which is also why it's silly to criticize Izzy for not having every fight being a highlight reel or questioning if he's even had one to begin with :lol:

The better these athletes get, the tougher it obviously is to style on them

Even with that being said, he's had a number of amazing moments against the best fighters in the division

If someone were simply to say: Anderson is ahead of Izzy, fine, fair. Don't gotta add these imaginary criticisms to Izzy on top of it
It’s not an imaginary criticism to say that Adesanya hasn’t had a highlight reel stoppage in the UFC that can compare to the ones Anderson Silva had.

It’s a simple observation that happens to be true.

And it happens to be relevant when Adesanya himself is always talking about wanting to be viewed as the GOAT when it’s all said and done.
 
It’s not an imaginary criticism to say that Adesanya hasn’t had a highlight reel stoppage in the UFC that can compare to the ones Anderson Silva had.

It’s a simple observation that happens to be true.

And it happens to be relevant when Adesanya himself is always talking about wanting to be viewed as the GOAT when it’s all said and done.
What exactly is a highlight reel to you? This is why you sound like a casual cause it seems like the only things that are "highlights" to you are big knockouts. Izzy has as good footwork and defense as anybody we've ever seen. The reason why Silva is so ingrained in our memory is because we never seen anything like him at the time. Izzy's the evolution of what Silva was.
He dismantled Brunson, went to war with Gastelum and rose to the occasion in round 5 in one of the best fights ever.
Dismantled Whittaker and Costa in ways we never even imagined someone could to those dudes. He manhandled Vettori too and although there was no K.O., go back and watch that fight. Vettori literally couldn't hit him and Marvin ran through the rest of the division.
Just take the way he slips punches and avoids getting hit - that would make a damn impressive highlight reel.
 
It’s not an imaginary criticism to say that Adesanya hasn’t had a highlight reel stoppage in the UFC.

It’s a simple observation that happens to be true.

And it happens to be relevant when Adesanya himself is always talking about wanting to be viewed as the GOAT when it’s all said and done.
What exactly is a highlight reel to you? This is why you sound like a casual cause it seems like the only things that are "highlights" to you are big knockouts. Izzy has as good footwork and defense as anybody we've ever seen. The reason why Silva is so ingrained in our memory is because we never seen anything like him at the time. Izzy's the evolution of what Silva was.
He dismantled Brunson, went to war with Gastelum and rose to the occasion in round 5 in one of the best fights ever.
Dismantled Whittaker and Costa in ways we never even imagined someone could to those dudes. He manhandled Vettori too and although there was no K.O., go back and watch that fight. Vettori literally couldn't hit him and Marvin ran through the rest of the division.
Just take the way he slips punches and avoids getting hit - that would make a damn impressive highlight reel.
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Rob fought the best fight he could. Didn’t want to get countered after throwing a right. If he took a little more chances in the mid rounds he could have won split decision. Adesanya too long and accurate for Whitaker. Don’t really see anyone able to to beat Izzy in that division.
 
I’ll jump in and say Andy def has the more stylish finishes, and it definitely takes a godly level of intuition and efficiency to pull off picture perfect KOs. You can make an NBA logo off of that Newton flying knee KO.

However, Izzys finishing sequence on Brunson was a thing of Beauty, def on par with Andy’s finish of Leben.
 
Rob fought the best fight he could. Didn’t want to get countered after throwing a right. If he took a little more chances in the mid rounds he could have won split decision. Adesanya too long and accurate for Whitaker. Don’t really see anyone able to to beat Izzy in that division.
For reals the lean back counter hook was there all night, and mans was not trying to overthrow himself into that again. Just goes to show Australians don’t have that world class wrestling pedigree :lol: leaning back that far with your hips exposed is just an Inv for a monster wrestler. I just don’t know who in middleweight can string that combo together against Izzy. Yoel possibly could have if he didn’t have the fight IQ of a Boulder.
 
Y’all think by the time a potential fight happens that Khamzat could take Izzy?
Even though I'm an Izzy fan, I don't think Izzy wants that smoke. Izzy's takedown defense ain't working against that type of elite wrestling.
 
This is the most casual fan **** ever said.
Izzy's footwork alone is masterful. The dude barely gets hit ever and yall want to see him "swang and bang" like every tap-out wearing meathead. Izzy ain't a knockout artist (though he did knock out the dude who stood and banged with Romero).
Rob is a beast and not taking anything away from him, but Izzy's ability to slip punches and keep you at a distance in every fight is what makes him the champ and it's insane to watch. You ever tried to dodge something that's thrown at you from less than a foot away? That **** is harder than standing there and taking it.
Swanging and banging isn't the way to go unless that's the only option you have.

It's not a "purist" vs "casual" argument. You mentioned "swanging and banging", but Anderson was not the "swanging and banging" guy, that doesn't make sense in this context.

Anderson was one of the best finishers in the history of the UFC and like 90% of the time when he finished he did it in a way that had everyone going crazy. Every Anderson Silva fight was an event, you knew some crazy **** was about to happen and almost every single time he delivered. For years on end. Without "swanging and banging". Skillfully taking dudes apart. I don't think Davey Magoo Davey Magoo is wrong at all to have the opinion that Anderson was more fun to watch.

If you appreciate Izzy's footwork feints and countering such that you had a blast watching him fight Romero and Vettori and Whittaker (the second time) then that's dope, but I also think you're insane to suggest that somehow enjoying Anderson Silva's fights more than Izzy's is something only a "casual" would say.

The one thing I'll say for Izzy though, Anderson also had some boring fights too like the Thales Leites fight, the Patrick Cote fight and the Demian Maia fight. Those represented a very small portion of his prime UFC run though, literally 3 out of 16 fights. Izzy has had as many meh fights in a shorter career, which is the point that I think was being made. More often than not Anderson delivered something crazy and it created this anticipation around his fights that I probably haven't seen/felt since then outside of maybe Mcgregor at his peak. Izzy is just more of a crapshoot at this point. You can fully appreciate his skills while also acknowledging that some of his fights aren't exactly knocking people's socks off. Both of those things can be true.

Comparing strength of schedule for fighters from different eras is really tough to do.

The sport keeps evolving at a breakneck pace and the skill level and overall athleticism keeps growing. 15 years ago fighters like Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and Yushin Okami were considered top shelf fighters. 15 years later they don’t look like great wins by today’s standards.

15 years from now, they’ll be saying the same thing about Robert Whittaker, Kelvin Gastelum and Marvin Vettori.

Yeah fighters exist in their eras, it is what it is. If we sent Demian Maia or Jacare in a time machine back to 1993 they'd probably whoop up on Royce Gracie and Shamrock and all them dudes and be known as greats of the sports. But they couldn't do it that in their own eras because as good as they were, they were fighting against other fighters who'd evolved with the times as well.

Comparing Izzy's strength of schedule to Anderson's or saying the fighters are better now is irrelevant. Fighters exist in their eras and should be judged based on what they did against the fighters of their era. With that said, the argument is just that Anderson used to style on dudes in a way that was generally more exciting and appealing than Izzy.

If you're a fan of Izzy and feel he's more exciting then fair enough, but I don't think saying Anderson was more fun to watch is even a slightly hot take. I mean **** I like Izzy too, it's not like anyone is saying he's some bum, but in terms of excitement Anderson's run was something else. Maybe Izzy can match him in time though, who knows.
 
Even though I'm an Izzy fan, I don't think Izzy wants that smoke. Izzy's takedown defense ain't working against that type of elite wrestling.

I think Khamzat is going to have to create a Khabib type situation if he keeps up his pace, where he makes his name too big to duck
 
That quick Forrest finish was epic. That last minute Hail Mary on Chael. The front kick on Vitor. The taunting and theatrics. Anderson was the man.

Izzy definitely not fighting six times this year, Mr Berriman.
 
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