The Official Anime & Manga Thread Vol: 三

[lexlieno]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I just don't understand how you guys think this when it was stated above that even through the time-skip he's generally doing the same thing minus the pose.  Even from a fanboy standpoint, there's no way around this downside to his technique. 

 

[leb13]

I only think it because it's become less strenuous for him to use like the pumping of the blood is having less of a negative effect on his body. If we ever find out more about his training we might find out if that effect is still there.

 

[lexlieno]

 
I only think it because it's become less strenuous for him to use like the pumping of the blood is having less of a negative effect on his body. If we ever find out more about his training we might find out if that effect is still there.

Word, but bruh....that doesn't make sense.  No matter how you slice it, he's doing the EXACT same thing as before, minus the pose.  There's no training or powerup he can endure that will change his blood pressure.  All I'm saying is this dude needs to die soon with all that he's been through.  

 

[leb13]

Yeah, but if he increased his body to where he doesn't need to pump as much blood to activate the gear. So instead of a drastic increase in his blood pressure like before to a more moderate one being needed because his physical capabilities have increased then I could see it no longer shortening his life. You could be right though and nothings changed and right after be becomes pirate king at the end of the series he dies or a little after. 

 

[tdogg2k]

Word, but bruh....that doesn't make sense.  No matter how you slice it, he's doing the EXACT same thing as before, minus the pose.  There's no training or powerup he can endure that will change his blood pressure.  All I'm saying is this dude needs to die soon with all that he's been through.  

When you're fat and you try to run a mile in 7 minutes, your heart rate will probably damn near explode. putting the pressure of your blood up.
but when you are in shape and use to running miles in 7 minutes, your heart rate doesn't go up as much anymore and no longer a strain to your body.

what's not to understand about the training making it less stressful on him?

 

[lexlieno]

When you're fat and you try to run a mile in 7 minutes, your heart rate will probably damn near explode. putting the pressure of your blood up.
but when you are in shape and use to running miles in 7 minutes, your heart rate doesn't go up as much anymore and no longer a strain to your body.

what's not to understand about the training making it less stressful on him?

Lol, it's not that serious bro.  What you're not understanding is that it has nothing to do with him physically.  Fat or in shape, stretching your blood vessels, is stretching your blood vessels.  You guys keep trying to find loop holes, but this is an internal type of deal.  No matter if he doesn't pump as much blood, he's still doing it, so damage is still done.

point blank, you can't train blood vessels bruh...on another note...if you think about it..even if he trained his body to be better...what would be the point of going gear 2? to go beyond that point.  So no matter what, gear 2 will always be a more pressure on his body.  

 

[tdogg2k]

Lol, it's not that serious bro.  What you're not understanding is that it has nothing to do with him physically.  Fat or in shape, stretching your blood vessels, is stretching your blood vessels.  You guys keep trying to find loop holes, but this is an internal type of deal.  No matter if he doesn't pump as much blood, he's still doing it, so damage is still done.

point blank, you can't train blood vessels bruh...on another note...if you think about it..even if he trained his body to be better...what would be the point of going gear 2? to go beyond that point.  So no matter what, gear 2 will always be a more pressure on his body.  

we've been on the same topic for 2 pages, yet you're saying It's not that serious..............., and still go on to defend your point???
(please don't pull that. I dont take this seriously card with us....)

Rob says "Even though your physical abilities increase beyond their limits, your stamina is not able to keep up with those reinforcements"
so what happens when you train the body harder??
your stamina increases your body is harder, on top of the fact that him being a rubber man, he's pretty much the only person who can handle that.
Luffy pulled Gear 2nd and 3rd out of his ***.
so after training with raleigh it's obvious he learned how to control it better.

We;re talking about the same character that can increase his bone density.....how is that more possible than stretching or expanding blood vessels????
I don't see your complaint.


Gear 2nd is no more than a Kao ken. temp boost.
we also haven't seen him use it half as long as he did vs. lucci. so maybe the short burst that he has used it in ,isn't as stressfull because he's not using it as long and get that extraboost to one hitta quitta dudes.

So even if it is taking a bit of his life off,
1. he will never die from over using gear 2nd (that's not how any story you've ever read worked)
2. he doesn't use it nearly enough for it to have that type of strain.
3. his body is more trained to handle that toughness.

 

[lexlieno]

we've been on the same topic for 2 pages, yet you're saying It's not that serious..............., and still go on to defend your point???
(please don't pull that. I dont take this seriously card with us....)

Rob says "Even though your physical abilities increase beyond their limits, your stamina is not able to keep up with those reinforcements"
so what happens when you train the body harder??
your stamina increases your body is harder, on top of the fact that him being a rubber man, he's pretty much the only person who can handle that.
Luffy pulled Gear 2nd and 3rd out of his ***.
so after training with raleigh it's obvious he learned how to control it better.

We;re talking about the same character that can increase his bone density.....how is that more possible than stretching or expanding blood vessels????
I don't see your complaint.


Gear 2nd is no more than a Kao ken. temp boost.
we also haven't seen him use it half as long as he did vs. lucci. so maybe the short burst that he has used it in ,isn't as stressfull because he's not using it as long and get that extraboost to one hitta quitta dudes.

So even if it is taking a bit of his life off,
1. he will never die from over using gear 2nd (that's not how any story you've ever read worked)
2. he doesn't use it nearly enough for it to have that type of strain.
3. his body is more trained to handle that toughness.

You're still missing the point.  First off you can't compare it to DBZ because it's a totally different thing.  You realize no matter how hard he trains his body, G2 is to go beyond that point.  So he's going to go overload in the blood vessel category, dude. 

1).  I'm saying from constant use of using G2 in combination with all the other things he's been through, dude should be dead or should die soon.

2).  He uses it in like every main fight since he brought it out.  He uses it now!  He uses it so much he found short cuts on how to do it.

3).  You can't train blood vessels.  

Before you reply saying the same thing again, ask yourself, what's the point of G2?  Then after you write down "what if he trains his body to be stronger and have more stamina" again, remember what the point of G2 ...To go beyond your limit. BTW  you can't compare bone density to internal organs bruh...

All I'm saying is when you get down to the bottom of it, your argument is what if he makes his external stronger and better.  The real issue is that this is an internal deal that has nothing to do with his external.  

 

[jays25]

I've actually always assumed that because he's shortened his life that Luffy would, like Roger, die fairly young after becoming Pirate King. Not until he's done so of course. That'd ruin the story.

 

[the docster]

 
I've actually always assumed that because he's shortened his life that Luffy would, like Roger, die fairly young after becoming Pirate King. Not until he's done so of course. That'd ruin the story.

I always thought the same.

I get what Lex is saying too.

I think of Gear 2nd like a limit break ability. So even if he increases his stamina, strength etc... G2 would always take a physical toll on his body no matter what.

 

[black leg]

I don't think Gear 2nd puts that same strain on his body like that anymore. The reason I think it put a strain on him anyways was because his body was not accustomed to the changes it created within his body, even though it could sustain it. Like someone said, he pulled the gears out his *** basically. So with the time between Enies Lobby and the end of the timeskip, he had used it so much and in long durations, as well as his personal training after Rayleigh left, that his body can better deal with it, especially in short spurts. Not saying he's completely bypassed the recoil, but it for sure has to be a lot less than preskip

 

[lexlieno]

 
I always thought the same.

I get what Lex is saying too.

I think of Gear 2nd like a limit break ability. So even if he increases his stamina, strength etc... G2 would always take a physical toll on his body no matter what.

Bingo. When you think about it, if they're only saying what if he increases his body, etc.  What would be the point of going G2 if you already are that strong?  It just doesn't make sense.  Anyways...So bleach will be the only manga outside of FSJ until January? 

 

[lazy]

You can't use a rational argument for a fictional story. If he can learn to expand his bones using his DF, I'm sure the same can be done for his blood vessels. I understand your point too but when it comes to life threatening techs in any manga/anim, more training and experience using said tech = less risk.

I think naruto will be back this week or next and OP will return the week after that.

 

[tdogg2k]

You can't use a rational argument for a fictional story. If he can learn to expand his bones using his DF, I'm sure the same can be done for his blood vessels. I understand your point too but when it comes to life threatening techs in any manga/anim, more training and experience using said tech = less risk.

I think naruto will be back this week or next and OP will return the week after that.

basically.

same sort of goes for fujitora bring astetoids from the sky

 

[lexlieno]

You can't use a rational argument for a fictional story. If he can learn to expand his bones using his DF, I'm sure the same can be done for his blood vessels. I understand your point too but when it comes to life threatening techs in any manga/anim, more training and experience using said tech = less risk.

I think naruto will be back this week or next and OP will return the week after that.

I feel the same it's just interesting to debate.  He's the main character, I'm sure he's not going anywhere soon.  I was just bringing up a point of his risk in using the tech being overlooked. So we will get chapters before New Years/Christmas.

 

[lazy]

2sappy posted this a few pages back.

damn.............. 40ish days til the next chapter........AFTER THAT?!!?

not 40ish days, its about 2 weeks.

here, from MS:

To clear up some of the confusion - Naruto will be back next week, and One Piece is taking off only one week. Weekly Jump's new year starts with the next issue.
Though you can expect more breaks soon, over the christmas season there are always two weeks of no chapters.

 

[sreggie101]

he's hacking his life away fine. but his life relative to what? by all accounts he's a kid and it could just mean he won't live to be master roshi's age or something w.e..


trying to apply real world medical science to a Japanese comic is kind of pointless? rayleigh is old as **** yet he can swim across an entire ocean to reach the amazon women in the mood ( see what i did there? ) and kill a sea king with his bare hands and some haki. no DF needed.

but u don't see me saying, well no1 can swim from france to new york non stop and kill some great whites in the process and land on the beach like it ain't no thang..its a manga. keep it moving.

 

[lazy]

You can't use a rational argument for a fictional story. If he can learn to expand his bones using his DF, I'm sure the same can be done for his blood vessels. I understand your point too but when it comes to life threatening techs in any manga/anim, more training and experience using said tech = less risk.


I think naruto will be back this week or next and OP will return the week after that.

I feel the same it's just interesting to debate.  He's the main character, I'm sure he's not going anywhere soon.  I was just bringing up a point of his risk in using the tech being overlooked. So we will get chapters before New Years/Christmas.

It definitely was a good debate. My take on his use now is he doesn't have to increase pressure throughout his entire body, just which ever part he wants to use for an attack. Doing that drastically decreases the strain or threat to begin with. Will be interesting to see if he ever has to use g2 the old way (powering up whole body) to overcome an opponent in the future.

 

[lexlieno]

It definitely was a good debate. My take on his use now is he doesn't have to increase pressure throughout his entire body, just which ever part he wants to use for an attack. Doing that drastically decreases the strain or threat to begin with. Will be interesting to see if he ever has to use g2 the old way (powering up whole body) to overcome an opponent in the future.

Yeah you can say he's a kid, but as you said you can't use real world scenarios because what kid does the type of things Luffy is doing.  Which really makes me wanna stop watching/reading this stuff because in most mangas dudes are like 12-17 and running the world/show.  IMO you can't compare him to Rayleigh to Luffy because you don't know the full scale of his abilities, nor the things that he's done.  You can only assume.  All i was trying to point out was that Luffy constantly uses a technique that constantly drains his life force.  That in combination with all the things that has been going on, IE ivankov shortening his life with all his shots etc. Dude should either be dead by the time he finds out what OP is, or relatively soon after that.  Two more thing I wanna point out.  How ignorant he is of the situation because after being told you're dying every time you do this, his response was idc idc idc.  The other was when using logic.  If the effects weren't that drastic it wouldn't have been made known.  The thing is he can stretch his bones and blood vessels,but he still suffers from blood pressure like most people(how does it work with logias?).  BTW the only difference between now and when he firt started doing it is he doesn't have to use the pose.  He can also do separate body parts, but that doesn't mean his pressure isn't being pushed to the limit.  Yes it's better than the whole body suffering, but the body is still suffering when he does it.

 

[leb13]

 
Yeah you can say he's a kid, but as you said you can't use real world scenarios because what kid does the type of things Luffy is doing.  Which really makes me wanna stop watching/reading this stuff because in most mangas dudes are like 12-17 and running the world/show.  IMO you can't compare him to Rayleigh to Luffy because you don't know the full scale of his abilities, nor the things that he's done.  You can only assume.  All i was trying to point out was that Luffy constantly uses a technique that constantly drains his life force.  That in combination with all the things that has been going on, IE ivankov shortening his life with all his shots etc. Dude should either be dead by the time he finds out what OP is, or relatively soon after that.  Two more thing I wanna point out.  How ignorant he is of the situation because after being told you're dying every time you do this, his response was idc idc idc.  The other was when using logic.  If the effects weren't that drastic it wouldn't have been made known.  The thing is he can stretch his bones and blood vessels,but he still suffers from blood pressure like most people(how does it work with logias?).  BTW the only difference between now and when he firt started doing it is he doesn't have to use the pose.  He can also do separate body parts, but that doesn't mean his pressure isn't being pushed to the limit.  Yes it's better than the whole body suffering, but the body is still suffering when he does it.

I think OP handles the age thing better than a lot of mangas. Most of the top tiers in the OPverse are in their 40s and 50s, there are going to be exceptions with younger and older people. At least it's not a kid who has never fought before and all of a sudden he's godly. Luffy's been training since a like 5 with Garps help a long the way, so it helps explain his strength. Even Zoro was shown to beat adults before he lost to Kunai and joined the dojo, where he trained like crazy. Anyway even supernovas in Luffy's generation have huge age differences I think Luffy is the youngest one at 19 and the oldest is Urogue at 45 or 47. Luffy is still ignorant of the world and it'll probably be some time till he's actually competitive with a Yonko or admiral probably. Idk how much they'll have Luffy age throughout the rest of the series though. I'd like to see him older and wiser when he becomes Pirate king though. 

Luffy seems to be aware that G2 shortens his life, it's just he's never worried about dying as long as he was protecting people or trying to become pirate king. I think it's been mentioned that most D's don't worry about or fear death except Teach. I think it's very possible Luffy dies at the EOS shortly after becoming pirate king. Ivankov saving him from the poison cost him 10 years, we don't know how much G2 cost him, and then the 2nd shot by ivankov may have cost him another 10 years. He could easily die at 30 at this rate, whether or not G2 still greatly affects him or not. 

 

[tdogg2k]

Was Goku's Kaoken still not the exact same thing as G2... which caused him stress on his body.. probably could've killed him, yet he got more powerful and still used it with no problem or not nearly as much stress.
like we said he pulled it outof his ***.
just did it one day and was like I trained to do this, but had no explanation. someone else had to explain it to him..

I would also guess the use of haki helps him somehow some way. but we don't know.

it's the thing i kind of like about OP, but its a sacrifice.
everyone just bust out new moves..
but with no explanation. but I'm actually cool with that because we get to see these new moves on top of a billion characters.

 

[dont be a menace]

well I re-watched the fight with him and Blueno (the first time he used it) and Blueno was wondering if his body could handle the technique. At the end of the fight, even Luffy says that his body couldn't take it. so obviously after the 2 year skip his body could handle the technique better.

 

[lexlieno]

Was Goku's Kaoken still not the exact same thing as G2... which caused him stress on his body.. probably could've killed him, yet he got more powerful and still used it with no problem or not nearly as much stress.
like we said he pulled it outof his ***.
just did it one day and was like I trained to do this, but had no explanation. someone else had to explain it to him..

I would also guess the use of haki helps him somehow some way. but we don't know.

it's the thing i kind of like about OP, but its a sacrifice.
everyone just bust out new moves..
but with no explanation. but I'm actually cool with that because we get to see these new moves on top of a billion characters.

Bro, can you stop with the DBZ comparison?  These are two different universes, they are not the same and can't be compared.  It's so ridiculous, it's stupid.  You keep saying the same thing every time.  You're out of this debate.  

well I re-watched the fight with him and Blueno (the first time he used it) and Blueno was wondering if his body could handle the technique. At the end of the fight, even Luffy says that his body couldn't take it. so obviously after the 2 year skip his body could handle the technique better.

That's your assumption.  All I'm saying is how the hell can he train his internal organs/ blood flow to not negatively effect his body.  There are certain things you can train, and there are certain things you can't.  At the end of the day you realize that what your saying is, "yeah he's doing the same attack that we know caused him internal exhaustion and shortened his lifespan, but dude did hella push ups!  Now he can do the exact same thing just without posing! "  Y'all don'y get that he's doing the exact same technique.  There's no spacejam water that will make the internal damage stop.  Because at the end of the day he's still speeding up his blood flow( which is probably the main thing thats damaging him), stretching those blood vessels and robbing himself of nutrients and a very fast rate.  He might can isolate the damage with better control now, but he's still taking damage.

 

[leb13]

Was Goku's Kaoken still not the exact same thing as G2... which caused him stress on his body.. probably could've killed him, yet he got more powerful and still used it with no problem or not nearly as much stress.
like we said he pulled it outof his ***.
just did it one day and was like I trained to do this, but had no explanation. someone else had to explain it to him..

I would also guess the use of haki helps him somehow some way. but we don't know.

it's the thing i kind of like about OP, but its a sacrifice.
everyone just bust out new moves..
but with no explanation. but I'm actually cool with that because we get to see these new moves on top of a billion characters.

About Kaioken from the wiki:

When Goku first mastered the Kaio-ken, the furthest he could handle was the Kaio-ken x4, but through training at 100x gravity and then later with his dramatic strength increase after his fight with Captain Ginyu, he was able to withstand astounding multiplications of the Kaio-ken technique, such as Kaio-ken x10. The highest multiplication for the Kaio-ken ever seen was the Kaio-ken x20, which Goku used against Frieza. The technique, however, has its substantial flaws. If the user multiplies their base ki too much, the uprise of ki could easily obliterate them, or severely damage their body, as it did Goku's. After using the Kaio-ken x4 to overpower Vegeta's Galick Gun, Goku's entire body was thrashed, and he could barely move without hurting himself. Even one friendly slap on the back from a gracious Yajirobe  caused Goku to scream out in agony

The seem similar, but that's because Oda drew lots of inspiration from there, but they're different universes. Yeah, at Enies Lobby Luffy had never trained for G2 or G3, he had only had them in mind after fighting Aokiji. On the train he mentions he has new attacks he wants to try out, but other than that they came out of nowhere, like Asura and Diable Jamble. Those 2 still haven't been properly explained. G2 also allowed his body to handle Soru, since he figured out that technique at Water 7. 

 

[Gordonson]

I mean, the thing is, Kaioken is an issue because of the amount of pressure manifesting that amount of energy put on him physically. Gear Second is destroying Luffy internally with every use unless stated otherwise.


I'll fall back though because I've been at the beginning of the Fishman Island arc for like 5 months, so I don't know what might have occurred since then.