The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by CP1708

^
Oh?  The one where he said the player that has come out lookin the best thru all this is Pierce, and the player that failed to get everyone on the same page was Kobe?  And the footnotes where he said Kobe 7 times?  That wasn't in the piece Friday?  Check again maybe.......pretty sure that was Friday. 

That is NOT what he said AT ALL.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by CP1708

^
Oh?  The one where he said the player that has come out lookin the best thru all this is Pierce, and the player that failed to get everyone on the same page was Kobe?  And the footnotes where he said Kobe 7 times?  That wasn't in the piece Friday?  Check again maybe.......pretty sure that was Friday. 

That is NOT what he said AT ALL.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by DubA169

It's disgusting that people want to give the owners the power to basically hold on to a superstar for their entire career. As if we wouldn't see cheap owners spend the least amount of money possible on the supporting cast.

Everyone was calling the players greedy for staying at 52 percent. They moved down to 50 but that still isn't enough. They could move to 47 and it wouldn't be enough. It's jealousy and envy mixed in with some good ol fashioned racism at this point.

I hear people calling the players selfish while also implying that they should basically take any al the owners present. That's just as selfish. You just want to watch your team.

Yep... As I've been saying for a minute now, I'm firmly on the player's side in this whole thing. !+$$ the owners.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by DubA169

It's disgusting that people want to give the owners the power to basically hold on to a superstar for their entire career. As if we wouldn't see cheap owners spend the least amount of money possible on the supporting cast.

Everyone was calling the players greedy for staying at 52 percent. They moved down to 50 but that still isn't enough. They could move to 47 and it wouldn't be enough. It's jealousy and envy mixed in with some good ol fashioned racism at this point.

I hear people calling the players selfish while also implying that they should basically take any al the owners present. That's just as selfish. You just want to watch your team.

Yep... As I've been saying for a minute now, I'm firmly on the player's side in this whole thing. !+$$ the owners.

 

[pmatic]

@mcten Was told by a source NBA player's licensing profits were withheld by NBPA to pay for lockout legal fees

@mcten Meaning, jersey/trading card/video game sales are footing the bill for Boies' $1,225 per hour lawyer fees
I hope he's worth it.

 

[pmatic]

@mcten Was told by a source NBA player's licensing profits were withheld by NBPA to pay for lockout legal fees

@mcten Meaning, jersey/trading card/video game sales are footing the bill for Boies' $1,225 per hour lawyer fees
I hope he's worth it.

 

[japanair21]

Of course he's not, they're wasting away money that they could be MAKING, and instead they're using their resources to try and end the lockout.

And I don't think necessarily that it would restrict player movement with that old proposed deal, it would just mean more player movement overall, and to small market teams too. Or at least that's what the league "proposed," would happen.

 

[japanair21]

Of course he's not, they're wasting away money that they could be MAKING, and instead they're using their resources to try and end the lockout.

And I don't think necessarily that it would restrict player movement with that old proposed deal, it would just mean more player movement overall, and to small market teams too. Or at least that's what the league "proposed," would happen.

 

[duba169]

so let me get this straight. to reduce player movement they want to shorten contracts...

seems like more opportunities to bounce from a bad team in the middle of nowhere to me.

*kanye shrug*

lawyers, dentists, doctors, PR people can move to big markets. But those hoodrats who put a ball through a hoop should stay in one place for their career. they should be grateful to not work at mcdonalds. it isnt like they have any skills that benefit society, unlike the owners who are the job creators of America

*real GM*

 

[duba169]

so let me get this straight. to reduce player movement they want to shorten contracts...

seems like more opportunities to bounce from a bad team in the middle of nowhere to me.

*kanye shrug*

lawyers, dentists, doctors, PR people can move to big markets. But those hoodrats who put a ball through a hoop should stay in one place for their career. they should be grateful to not work at mcdonalds. it isnt like they have any skills that benefit society, unlike the owners who are the job creators of America

*real GM*

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by PMatic

@mcten Was told by a source NBA player's licensing profits were withheld by NBPA to pay for lockout legal fees

@mcten Meaning, jersey/trading card/video game sales are footing the bill for Boies' $1,225 per hour lawyer fees
I hope he's worth it.

I said a couple pages back that Boies would be $1000/hour easy.  $1225 per is even a little higher than I would have guessed though.  He has a pretty stellar track record, but I don't know that any lawyer is worth that much -- and that's coming from another lawyer.   The people/companies he's won high profile cases for probably would disagree with me, however. 

The rank and file guys really can't be to happy about this.  They're not getting paid now, don't know when they will be getting paid again and money that could have been in their pockets is now going to their lawyer.  If I was anyone other than a top tier NBA star, I'd have serious questions about whether the decertification move was really worth it. 

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by PMatic

@mcten Was told by a source NBA player's licensing profits were withheld by NBPA to pay for lockout legal fees

@mcten Meaning, jersey/trading card/video game sales are footing the bill for Boies' $1,225 per hour lawyer fees
I hope he's worth it.

I said a couple pages back that Boies would be $1000/hour easy.  $1225 per is even a little higher than I would have guessed though.  He has a pretty stellar track record, but I don't know that any lawyer is worth that much -- and that's coming from another lawyer.   The people/companies he's won high profile cases for probably would disagree with me, however. 

The rank and file guys really can't be to happy about this.  They're not getting paid now, don't know when they will be getting paid again and money that could have been in their pockets is now going to their lawyer.  If I was anyone other than a top tier NBA star, I'd have serious questions about whether the decertification move was really worth it. 

 

[duba169]

gotta agree with lawdog. over $1000 is rare.$1250 is the most i ever seen.
im pro player but i dont know if the big *+@% you statement is worth it

 

[duba169]

gotta agree with lawdog. over $1000 is rare.$1250 is the most i ever seen.
im pro player but i dont know if the big *+@% you statement is worth it

 

[pmatic]

Deshawn Stevenson telling it the way only Deshawn Stevenson can.

NBA lockout puts Mavs’ coronation on hold

The Dallas Mavericks should have received their championship rings three weeks ago in a ceremony on the opening night of the 2011-12 NBA season. They didn’t, of course. The league’s ongoing lockout has indefinitely postponed their coronation, and the players can’t be sure when they’ll get their prize for winning last season’s title.

“For me, personally, I don’t think there will be a season,

 

[pmatic]

Deshawn Stevenson telling it the way only Deshawn Stevenson can.

NBA lockout puts Mavs’ coronation on hold

The Dallas Mavericks should have received their championship rings three weeks ago in a ceremony on the opening night of the 2011-12 NBA season. They didn’t, of course. The league’s ongoing lockout has indefinitely postponed their coronation, and the players can’t be sure when they’ll get their prize for winning last season’s title.

“For me, personally, I don’t think there will be a season,

 

[finallyfamous]

So my Uncle called me and said he got 4 tickets 2nd row behind the visitors bench for the Tour game in Akron.

Question(s)... They split teams right? It's not about to be scrubs vs bron/wade/melo/cp3, etc right? I figured they did it equally .

Anyone else gonna be in attendance?

 

[finallyfamous]

So my Uncle called me and said he got 4 tickets 2nd row behind the visitors bench for the Tour game in Akron.

Question(s)... They split teams right? It's not about to be scrubs vs bron/wade/melo/cp3, etc right? I figured they did it equally .

Anyone else gonna be in attendance?

 

[scientific method]

They split the teams up in a fair manner. LeBron will take KD on his team (has been in every game they played together since that time KD gave him 40+), and CP3 and Melo will be on the same team and it'll fill out from there. All 4 of them where in the OKC game and that's how they split up.

 

[scientific method]

They split the teams up in a fair manner. LeBron will take KD on his team (has been in every game they played together since that time KD gave him 40+), and CP3 and Melo will be on the same team and it'll fill out from there. All 4 of them where in the OKC game and that's how they split up.

 

[pmatic]

Both sides in NBA battle reach out to previous deal-broker Quinn

The quest to save the NBA season is clearly running out of time. Lawsuits have been filed and refiled, complaints withdrawn, amended and consolidated. While burning through all that ink and midnight oil, nobody wants to be the first to pick up the phone and call the other side to discuss the only sane way to end this: a settlement.
The NBA and the players need someone to break the ice, someone who can speak plainly and calmly to both sides and move them out of the bunkers they've built and toward a possible deal.

Thankfully for those who want a basketball season, the ideally qualified person with the right relationships and experience and an impeccable reputation as a deal-maker has come forward to solve that problem.

That person is Jim Quinn, who for nearly 20 years served as lead outside counsel for the National Basketball Players Association and who helped broker the deal that ended the 1998-99 lockout. Quinn's unique perspective as a longtime, formidable and respected adversary of commissioner David Stern covers multiple collective bargaining agreements as well as the landmark antitrust lawsuit spearheaded by Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson in 1976.

Reached by CBSSports.com Tuesday at the offices of Weil, Gotshal & Manges, where he is a partner and chairman of the global litigation team, Quinn confirmed he has spoken with both Stern and NBPA director Billy Hunter since the collective bargaining process broke down and the union disclaimed -- leading to multiple antitrust lawsuits.

Quinn characterized the conversations as "touchy-feely" and "off-the-record," and said they have occurred "in the past number of days."

"The reality is," he said, "sometimes off-the-record conversations can be useful."

Never more so than right now.

"I've always said that I'll be helpful in any way I can be," Quinn said. "Everyone would like to see that there is a season, so sure, I'd be helpful."

In addition to brokering an end to the '98-99 lockout, Quinn also teamed with current NBPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler on the successful antitrust lawsuit brought against the NFL by Freeman McNeil and on the recent NFL lockout settlement. Kessler left Weil in 2003 and brought the NBPA account with him, but the two have continued to work together on NFL litigation. NBPA general counsel Ron Klempner worked for Quinn at Weil, and Quinn also has longstanding relationships with several of the key NBA attorneys involved, including Jeffrey Mishkin and David Boies.

Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver declined interview requests Tuesday and also declined to answer questions sent to them through a spokesman regarding the status of settlement talks and whether they would agree to such talks if they were organized or overseen by Quinn. Other than a live televised interview with broadcast partner ESPN on Nov. 14, Stern has made no public comments since the union dissolved and launched antitrust actions against the league.

But the most important words are those being spoken privately, with Quinn in the role of back-channel facilitator that was described in a CBSSports.com story Friday by two people briefed on ownership matters. Asked what his best asset would be in brokering a possible NBA settlement in time to have a substantial season, Quinn said simply, "I know everybody."

For that reason and many others, Quinn is the ideal middle man to bring the two sides together, as the NBA's own website pointed out last month. One attorney who has crossed paths with Quinn many times over the years called him "a voice of reason if there ever was one."

The nearly five-month NBA lockout, which now represents the biggest threat to losing an entire NBA season to a labor dispute in the league's history, needs one of those badly. And it's finally got one.

"The most favorable outcome is that they somehow get together quickly and reach an agreement so that they can have a reasonable season," Quinn said. "I hesitate to guess what most likely outcome is.

"I think both sides want a settlement," he said. "I just don't know whether they can get one quickly."

According to people involved in the process on both sides, there is a common realization that this is the week a deal must come together to fulfill the league's desire to start the season by Christmas. And despite the lack of official communication between the parties and some obstacles that grew out of the players' antitrust actions, sources maintain that the framework of a settlement could be reached quickly once the dialogue progressed from the back channels to the formal stages.

"Everyone on both sides realizes it's settlement time," said a person who has been in frequent contact with negotiators.

One of the obstacles in the who-calls-whom-first dilemma has been that Hunter, no longer the bargaining agent for the players, faces potential legal entanglements if he is the one to initiate negotiations directly with Stern. If a settlement can't be reached in the next few days, league attorneys will proceed full steam with their defense of the players' lawsuit -- which includes ramping up their argument in the league-initiated case in New York that the players' disclaimer was a "sham," or negotiating tactic. Hunter picking up the phone and calling Stern, some attorneys believe, would bolster the NBA's legal argument.

Also, the fact that the players are no longer represented by a union and are now suing the NBA for potentially enormous damages hasn't removed one of the impediments Stern has long faced: his hard-line owners. While the shift from negotiating to the courts has caused some moderate owners to soften their position and favor a settlement, sources say some hard-line owners have dug in even more and "want to make the players pay," one of the people said.

So, too, have some hard-liners on the players' side become emboldened by the prospect of a landmark damages decision against the NBA. Some on the players' side have pushed in the past week to harden their position compared to where the bargaining talks broke down. For such attorneys, it's a simple matter of risk assessment: If the owners would face a $6 billion damages judgment for a completely lost season, their economic offer should improve by whatever percent chance league attorneys think they have of losing the case.

So, for example, if the NBA predicts a 25 percent chance of losing, it should offer the players $1.5 billion more over 10 years than it offered in its most recent proposal. That calculates to about 3 percentage points of BRI, which would put the split at 53-47 in favor of the players. There are "far too many irrational people on both sides for it to proceed that way," said one person who has been briefed on the various bargaining stances. Indeed, hard-line owners likely would be pushing for those numbers to be flipped in the league's favor.

Part of Quinn's job would be to identify the rational people on both sides and try to engage them in making a deal that would resemble the 50-50 economic split that both sides had agreed to when the talks broke down. Then it's a matter of probing both sides for a compromise on the list of unresolved system issues. For the players, the most important items were the rate of increase in luxury tax for repeat offenders; tax-paying teams' access to spending and trade exceptions; and the method for identifying when a team is considered to be above the tax threshold -- as in, before or after a signing that would push the team over the line.

For attorneys who have brokered far more complicated deals -- and nearly all of those involved in this case have done so -- this has to come across as a settlement that could be hammered out in a couple of days.

After years of posturing, months of bargaining, billions of concessions from the players and nearly two months of the season lost, those days are here. The one thing people on both sides agree on is that if significant progress isn't made by Friday -- with final details to be wrapped up over the weekend -- then the chances of a season starting by Christmas will be gone. With little appetite on either side for a 50-game season starting after New Year's, and with hard-liners becoming more emboldened by the minute, these next few days aren't just about saving a Christmas opener for the NBA.

They could be about saving the whole thing.

Someone who's done that already is talking to both sides, and stands ready to do whatever he's asked to broker a settlement.

"I think there's still a chance," Quinn said. "I'm happy to be helpful, if asked."

So there's no more need to stand on ceremony and wait for the other side to call. But when the phone rings and Jim Quinn is on the other end of the line, it's in in everybody's best interests to pick it up.


Link

 

[pmatic]

Both sides in NBA battle reach out to previous deal-broker Quinn

The quest to save the NBA season is clearly running out of time. Lawsuits have been filed and refiled, complaints withdrawn, amended and consolidated. While burning through all that ink and midnight oil, nobody wants to be the first to pick up the phone and call the other side to discuss the only sane way to end this: a settlement.
The NBA and the players need someone to break the ice, someone who can speak plainly and calmly to both sides and move them out of the bunkers they've built and toward a possible deal.

Thankfully for those who want a basketball season, the ideally qualified person with the right relationships and experience and an impeccable reputation as a deal-maker has come forward to solve that problem.

That person is Jim Quinn, who for nearly 20 years served as lead outside counsel for the National Basketball Players Association and who helped broker the deal that ended the 1998-99 lockout. Quinn's unique perspective as a longtime, formidable and respected adversary of commissioner David Stern covers multiple collective bargaining agreements as well as the landmark antitrust lawsuit spearheaded by Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson in 1976.

Reached by CBSSports.com Tuesday at the offices of Weil, Gotshal & Manges, where he is a partner and chairman of the global litigation team, Quinn confirmed he has spoken with both Stern and NBPA director Billy Hunter since the collective bargaining process broke down and the union disclaimed -- leading to multiple antitrust lawsuits.

Quinn characterized the conversations as "touchy-feely" and "off-the-record," and said they have occurred "in the past number of days."

"The reality is," he said, "sometimes off-the-record conversations can be useful."

Never more so than right now.

"I've always said that I'll be helpful in any way I can be," Quinn said. "Everyone would like to see that there is a season, so sure, I'd be helpful."

In addition to brokering an end to the '98-99 lockout, Quinn also teamed with current NBPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler on the successful antitrust lawsuit brought against the NFL by Freeman McNeil and on the recent NFL lockout settlement. Kessler left Weil in 2003 and brought the NBPA account with him, but the two have continued to work together on NFL litigation. NBPA general counsel Ron Klempner worked for Quinn at Weil, and Quinn also has longstanding relationships with several of the key NBA attorneys involved, including Jeffrey Mishkin and David Boies.

Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver declined interview requests Tuesday and also declined to answer questions sent to them through a spokesman regarding the status of settlement talks and whether they would agree to such talks if they were organized or overseen by Quinn. Other than a live televised interview with broadcast partner ESPN on Nov. 14, Stern has made no public comments since the union dissolved and launched antitrust actions against the league.

But the most important words are those being spoken privately, with Quinn in the role of back-channel facilitator that was described in a CBSSports.com story Friday by two people briefed on ownership matters. Asked what his best asset would be in brokering a possible NBA settlement in time to have a substantial season, Quinn said simply, "I know everybody."

For that reason and many others, Quinn is the ideal middle man to bring the two sides together, as the NBA's own website pointed out last month. One attorney who has crossed paths with Quinn many times over the years called him "a voice of reason if there ever was one."

The nearly five-month NBA lockout, which now represents the biggest threat to losing an entire NBA season to a labor dispute in the league's history, needs one of those badly. And it's finally got one.

"The most favorable outcome is that they somehow get together quickly and reach an agreement so that they can have a reasonable season," Quinn said. "I hesitate to guess what most likely outcome is.

"I think both sides want a settlement," he said. "I just don't know whether they can get one quickly."

According to people involved in the process on both sides, there is a common realization that this is the week a deal must come together to fulfill the league's desire to start the season by Christmas. And despite the lack of official communication between the parties and some obstacles that grew out of the players' antitrust actions, sources maintain that the framework of a settlement could be reached quickly once the dialogue progressed from the back channels to the formal stages.

"Everyone on both sides realizes it's settlement time," said a person who has been in frequent contact with negotiators.

One of the obstacles in the who-calls-whom-first dilemma has been that Hunter, no longer the bargaining agent for the players, faces potential legal entanglements if he is the one to initiate negotiations directly with Stern. If a settlement can't be reached in the next few days, league attorneys will proceed full steam with their defense of the players' lawsuit -- which includes ramping up their argument in the league-initiated case in New York that the players' disclaimer was a "sham," or negotiating tactic. Hunter picking up the phone and calling Stern, some attorneys believe, would bolster the NBA's legal argument.

Also, the fact that the players are no longer represented by a union and are now suing the NBA for potentially enormous damages hasn't removed one of the impediments Stern has long faced: his hard-line owners. While the shift from negotiating to the courts has caused some moderate owners to soften their position and favor a settlement, sources say some hard-line owners have dug in even more and "want to make the players pay," one of the people said.

So, too, have some hard-liners on the players' side become emboldened by the prospect of a landmark damages decision against the NBA. Some on the players' side have pushed in the past week to harden their position compared to where the bargaining talks broke down. For such attorneys, it's a simple matter of risk assessment: If the owners would face a $6 billion damages judgment for a completely lost season, their economic offer should improve by whatever percent chance league attorneys think they have of losing the case.

So, for example, if the NBA predicts a 25 percent chance of losing, it should offer the players $1.5 billion more over 10 years than it offered in its most recent proposal. That calculates to about 3 percentage points of BRI, which would put the split at 53-47 in favor of the players. There are "far too many irrational people on both sides for it to proceed that way," said one person who has been briefed on the various bargaining stances. Indeed, hard-line owners likely would be pushing for those numbers to be flipped in the league's favor.

Part of Quinn's job would be to identify the rational people on both sides and try to engage them in making a deal that would resemble the 50-50 economic split that both sides had agreed to when the talks broke down. Then it's a matter of probing both sides for a compromise on the list of unresolved system issues. For the players, the most important items were the rate of increase in luxury tax for repeat offenders; tax-paying teams' access to spending and trade exceptions; and the method for identifying when a team is considered to be above the tax threshold -- as in, before or after a signing that would push the team over the line.

For attorneys who have brokered far more complicated deals -- and nearly all of those involved in this case have done so -- this has to come across as a settlement that could be hammered out in a couple of days.

After years of posturing, months of bargaining, billions of concessions from the players and nearly two months of the season lost, those days are here. The one thing people on both sides agree on is that if significant progress isn't made by Friday -- with final details to be wrapped up over the weekend -- then the chances of a season starting by Christmas will be gone. With little appetite on either side for a 50-game season starting after New Year's, and with hard-liners becoming more emboldened by the minute, these next few days aren't just about saving a Christmas opener for the NBA.

They could be about saving the whole thing.

Someone who's done that already is talking to both sides, and stands ready to do whatever he's asked to broker a settlement.

"I think there's still a chance," Quinn said. "I'm happy to be helpful, if asked."

So there's no more need to stand on ceremony and wait for the other side to call. But when the phone rings and Jim Quinn is on the other end of the line, it's in in everybody's best interests to pick it up.


Link

 

[finallyfamous]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

They split the teams up in a fair manner. LeBron will take KD on his team (has been in every game they played together since that time KD gave him 40+), and CP3 and Melo will be on the same team and it'll fill out from there. All 4 of them where in the OKC game and that's how they split up.

Word. 

 

[finallyfamous]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

They split the teams up in a fair manner. LeBron will take KD on his team (has been in every game they played together since that time KD gave him 40+), and CP3 and Melo will be on the same team and it'll fill out from there. All 4 of them where in the OKC game and that's how they split up.

Word. 

 

[ill steelo]

NBA Lockout Hurting the Escort Service Industry


We’ve all read the heartbreaking stories of all those people whose lives have been turned upside down by the NBA lockout — arena workers, team support staff, NBA media folk, etc. — but won’t anyone think of the escorts, for crying out loud? They’re people, too. CNBC knows that, and is on the case: “A 30 percent decline seems to be the magic number, even for Henry, who runs an escort service in New York that he says charges between $400 and $4,000 an hour, depending on the woman. Henry says he takes between 65 and 80 percent of the total cut to match the players and other high-profile fans, who are with the client an average of four hours. ‘There are replacements but they aren’t as consistent and not nearly as high paying,’ Henry said.