The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[duba169]

That's the AAU's doing lawdog. These guys been hanging out with each other since they were teens. Also sterns fault forrest making the stars bigger than the league itself. He did this in the way they promote the team and the preferential treatment.

The league also decided to go crazy over fights to the point that players leaving the bench ruined the Knicks season and the suns season. That helped tone down real rivalry

But also it's just the way our society is too a point. I'm sure there's some race elements involved also

 

[duba169]

That's the AAU's doing lawdog. These guys been hanging out with each other since they were teens. Also sterns fault forrest making the stars bigger than the league itself. He did this in the way they promote the team and the preferential treatment.

The league also decided to go crazy over fights to the point that players leaving the bench ruined the Knicks season and the suns season. That helped tone down real rivalry

But also it's just the way our society is too a point. I'm sure there's some race elements involved also

 

[pmatic]

For the NBA and Breaking Bad fans.

What ‘Breaking Bad’ Tells Us About The NBA Lockout

Kevin Arnovitz recently wrote a great piece on TrueHoop comparing the NBA lockout to the recent contract dispute between AMC and Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner. Jason Whitlock has never met a sports narrative he couldn’t bend The Wire to fit. Looking at the world of sports through the lens of a TV show is hardly a novel concept, I’ll admit. However, I feel like the spectacular, just-wrapped fourth season of Breaking Bad can tell us a lot about where we are in this, the dreariest stage of the NBA labor negotiations. David Stern axed the first two weeks of the regular season on Monday. Everything we thought we knew about the incremental (albeit minimal) progress the owners and players have made towards a new collective bargaining agreement has been shown to be wrong. Between the revenue lost from the canceled games and the potential for the dispute to be taken to the courts, it sure looks as though this is going to get a lot uglier before any real progress is made.[h2]COMMON-SENSE DISCLAIMER: The rest of this post contains significant spoilers from season four of Breaking Bad. If you haven’t caught up and are planning on doing so, I’d highly recommend that you stop reading.[/h2]
Part of what makes Breaking Bad the most compelling show on television is the way it plays with its characters’ morality. Walter White is ostensibly the show’s protagonist, and has been from the beginning, but throughout most of season four, he was arguably the seventh-most likable character. Gus Fring is a ruthless, cold-hearted criminal mastermind who will cut an underling’s throat with a box cutter to prove a point, but he’s at times more sympathetic than any of the good guys. Walt’s wife, Skyler, holds his meth manufacturing over him as a form of moral high ground every chance she gets, but she isn’t above dipping into the illicit funds to save her own behind when the IRS starts looking at her former employer/sometimes lover. There are no real good guys in Breaking Bad. Even the characters we’re supposed to be rooting for have done some unspeakable, reprehensible things (Sunday’s season finale ended with the revelation that it was Walt, not Gus, who poisoned an innocent child in the name of self-preservation).

It’s just like how it’s hard to justify picking a side in the NBA labor talks, and even harder to justify sticking with them. The owners are the easy villains, but there have been moments during the discussions (fleeting moments, but real ones nonetheless) when they have come off as more reasonable than the players. The union has a strong moral case as both the labor and the product of the NBA, but the only thing smaller than their leverage with the owners is their self-awareness of how small said leverage is. They, of course, have every right to hold out for what they want, and the amount of givebacks they’ve already reportedly agreed to is huge. But when they pick the day that games are put on the chopping block to start mass-tweeting things like “Let Us Play

 

[pmatic]

For the NBA and Breaking Bad fans.

What ‘Breaking Bad’ Tells Us About The NBA Lockout

Kevin Arnovitz recently wrote a great piece on TrueHoop comparing the NBA lockout to the recent contract dispute between AMC and Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner. Jason Whitlock has never met a sports narrative he couldn’t bend The Wire to fit. Looking at the world of sports through the lens of a TV show is hardly a novel concept, I’ll admit. However, I feel like the spectacular, just-wrapped fourth season of Breaking Bad can tell us a lot about where we are in this, the dreariest stage of the NBA labor negotiations. David Stern axed the first two weeks of the regular season on Monday. Everything we thought we knew about the incremental (albeit minimal) progress the owners and players have made towards a new collective bargaining agreement has been shown to be wrong. Between the revenue lost from the canceled games and the potential for the dispute to be taken to the courts, it sure looks as though this is going to get a lot uglier before any real progress is made.[h2]COMMON-SENSE DISCLAIMER: The rest of this post contains significant spoilers from season four of Breaking Bad. If you haven’t caught up and are planning on doing so, I’d highly recommend that you stop reading.[/h2]
Part of what makes Breaking Bad the most compelling show on television is the way it plays with its characters’ morality. Walter White is ostensibly the show’s protagonist, and has been from the beginning, but throughout most of season four, he was arguably the seventh-most likable character. Gus Fring is a ruthless, cold-hearted criminal mastermind who will cut an underling’s throat with a box cutter to prove a point, but he’s at times more sympathetic than any of the good guys. Walt’s wife, Skyler, holds his meth manufacturing over him as a form of moral high ground every chance she gets, but she isn’t above dipping into the illicit funds to save her own behind when the IRS starts looking at her former employer/sometimes lover. There are no real good guys in Breaking Bad. Even the characters we’re supposed to be rooting for have done some unspeakable, reprehensible things (Sunday’s season finale ended with the revelation that it was Walt, not Gus, who poisoned an innocent child in the name of self-preservation).

It’s just like how it’s hard to justify picking a side in the NBA labor talks, and even harder to justify sticking with them. The owners are the easy villains, but there have been moments during the discussions (fleeting moments, but real ones nonetheless) when they have come off as more reasonable than the players. The union has a strong moral case as both the labor and the product of the NBA, but the only thing smaller than their leverage with the owners is their self-awareness of how small said leverage is. They, of course, have every right to hold out for what they want, and the amount of givebacks they’ve already reportedly agreed to is huge. But when they pick the day that games are put on the chopping block to start mass-tweeting things like “Let Us Play

 

[duba169]

That article amazing nas

 

[duba169]

That article amazing nas

 

[n ll k 3]

I'd add Dan Gilbert to the tricky ones.

He's flooded money into the franchise (for better or for worse

) and seems like he's going to continue to do so.

He's committed to the city w/ the casinos whether he likes it or not.

 

[n ll k 3]

I'd add Dan Gilbert to the tricky ones.

He's flooded money into the franchise (for better or for worse

) and seems like he's going to continue to do so.

He's committed to the city w/ the casinos whether he likes it or not.

 

[jdiddy]

I like what Rodman said about the lockout... "Most players don't give a damn about the game. They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."

 

[jdiddy]

I like what Rodman said about the lockout... "Most players don't give a damn about the game. They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."

 

[duba169]

Isiah thomas also talked *@%% during the last lockout. These athletes are a bunch of crabs in a bucket

Rodman would be getting noah money these days.

What's laughable is telling me gilbert, sarver, sterling, and stern care about the game

 

[duba169]

Isiah thomas also talked *@%% during the last lockout. These athletes are a bunch of crabs in a bucket

Rodman would be getting noah money these days.

What's laughable is telling me gilbert, sarver, sterling, and stern care about the game

 

[eb4president]

A couple of thoughts...

First - I think people need to get a clear definition of a small market. I am not 100% clear on the definition but I think a lot of it has to do with city population (ie TV contracts). So they're major markets, mid major, and small markets. It's hard to identify which teams fall into the buckets.

Second- PTI mentioned the can the players start there own league. I actually think that would be very unsuccessful. While its a players leagues. fans still root and support players because as a whole they represent a city. A lot of people disagree with this statement but I like players who come to my team, sure there are those superstars who I like, but as a whole i support my team.

Lastly, if the league wants to survive, owners need to realize this isnt the nfl. They need the players, so they better pay up, give players the majority of the money, just put a hard cap on how much money that is.

 

[eb4president]

A couple of thoughts...

First - I think people need to get a clear definition of a small market. I am not 100% clear on the definition but I think a lot of it has to do with city population (ie TV contracts). So they're major markets, mid major, and small markets. It's hard to identify which teams fall into the buckets.

Second- PTI mentioned the can the players start there own league. I actually think that would be very unsuccessful. While its a players leagues. fans still root and support players because as a whole they represent a city. A lot of people disagree with this statement but I like players who come to my team, sure there are those superstars who I like, but as a whole i support my team.

Lastly, if the league wants to survive, owners need to realize this isnt the nfl. They need the players, so they better pay up, give players the majority of the money, just put a hard cap on how much money that is.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by JDiddy

I like what Rodman said about the lockout... "Most players don't give a damn about the game. They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."

sounds like typical old head talk.

if dudes didn't care, they wouldn't be constantly trying to improve. the eddy currys and jerome james' of the league don't care. i wouldn't say "most players"

 

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by JDiddy

I like what Rodman said about the lockout... "Most players don't give a damn about the game. They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."

sounds like typical old head talk.

if dudes didn't care, they wouldn't be constantly trying to improve. the eddy currys and jerome james' of the league don't care. i wouldn't say "most players"

 

[T0INE]

I plan on getting into Breaking Bad pretty soon, so no way in hell am I reading that article.

The discussion in this thread has been interesting though.

 

[T0INE]

I plan on getting into Breaking Bad pretty soon, so no way in hell am I reading that article.

The discussion in this thread has been interesting though.

 

[aepps20]

Fisher and Hunter are doing a terrible job on the PR front.  They need to be on ESPN, Fox Sports, SI, etc every day getting their side of the story out there. Instead they let Stern frame the issue which is never a good move. They should tell the fans that the owners started with unrealistic demands as a base and what they claim is progress is really moving towards what their true demands are.  Fisher and Hunter needed to explain that the 50-50 split wasn't really 50-50 and that the owners essentially want the players and the players alone to reimburse the owners for their own bad decisions (i.e. taking loans to purchase teams and arenas). When the average fan hears 50-50 they naturally think that's a fair deal but if Hunter and Fisher would explain that this lockout is not about competitive balance but about making owners richer and that the owners will not pass the savings onto the fans but will probably increase ticket prices, maybe they would have more support.  If the NBA had Demaurice Smith running the show they would do a better job in the PR department.

 

[aepps20]

Fisher and Hunter are doing a terrible job on the PR front.  They need to be on ESPN, Fox Sports, SI, etc every day getting their side of the story out there. Instead they let Stern frame the issue which is never a good move. They should tell the fans that the owners started with unrealistic demands as a base and what they claim is progress is really moving towards what their true demands are.  Fisher and Hunter needed to explain that the 50-50 split wasn't really 50-50 and that the owners essentially want the players and the players alone to reimburse the owners for their own bad decisions (i.e. taking loans to purchase teams and arenas). When the average fan hears 50-50 they naturally think that's a fair deal but if Hunter and Fisher would explain that this lockout is not about competitive balance but about making owners richer and that the owners will not pass the savings onto the fans but will probably increase ticket prices, maybe they would have more support.  If the NBA had Demaurice Smith running the show they would do a better job in the PR department.

 

[addict4sneakers]

i kinda look at all these charity games as positive PR by the players for the fans.

they scream "hey, we care about the fans, here's a free show" and that's something the owners and Stern can't do.

 

[addict4sneakers]

i kinda look at all these charity games as positive PR by the players for the fans.

they scream "hey, we care about the fans, here's a free show" and that's something the owners and Stern can't do.

 

[myjaysgetrocked]

Originally Posted by EB4President

A couple of thoughts...

First - I think people need to get a clear definition of a small market. I am not 100% clear on the definition but I think a lot of it has to do with city population (ie TV contracts). So they're major markets, mid major, and small markets. It's hard to identify which teams fall into the buckets.

Second- PTI mentioned the can the players start there own league. I actually think that would be very unsuccessful. While its a players leagues. fans still root and support players because as a whole they represent a city. A lot of people disagree with this statement but I like players who come to my team, sure there are those superstars who I like, but as a whole i support my team.

Lastly, if the league wants to survive, owners need to realize this isnt the nfl. They need the players, so they better pay up, give players the majority of the money, just put a hard cap on how much money that is.

The players can't start their own league, I mean they can in a literal sense but it will go nowhere. All these tv contracts, endorsements etc are with the NBA. Lebron Kobe,Melo,Wade would make NO WHERE near their salary with the NBA. Also, what about the other 300 nba players? I'm pretty sure the owners are laughing at the notion of another league. When you really think about it, it's quite hysterical. 
One of the most important factors of a negotiation is leverage, and the players have NONE. Without the NBA, 95% of players have nothing to fall back on.They don't have another job, their income stream is either 0 or something significantly lower than their NBA salary.  The owners on the other hand, have already accumulated a level of wealth in which they can live very comfortably. 

 

[myjaysgetrocked]

Originally Posted by EB4President

A couple of thoughts...

First - I think people need to get a clear definition of a small market. I am not 100% clear on the definition but I think a lot of it has to do with city population (ie TV contracts). So they're major markets, mid major, and small markets. It's hard to identify which teams fall into the buckets.

Second- PTI mentioned the can the players start there own league. I actually think that would be very unsuccessful. While its a players leagues. fans still root and support players because as a whole they represent a city. A lot of people disagree with this statement but I like players who come to my team, sure there are those superstars who I like, but as a whole i support my team.

Lastly, if the league wants to survive, owners need to realize this isnt the nfl. They need the players, so they better pay up, give players the majority of the money, just put a hard cap on how much money that is.

The players can't start their own league, I mean they can in a literal sense but it will go nowhere. All these tv contracts, endorsements etc are with the NBA. Lebron Kobe,Melo,Wade would make NO WHERE near their salary with the NBA. Also, what about the other 300 nba players? I'm pretty sure the owners are laughing at the notion of another league. When you really think about it, it's quite hysterical. 
One of the most important factors of a negotiation is leverage, and the players have NONE. Without the NBA, 95% of players have nothing to fall back on.They don't have another job, their income stream is either 0 or something significantly lower than their NBA salary.  The owners on the other hand, have already accumulated a level of wealth in which they can live very comfortably. 

 

[lawdog1]

^^^ Are the Clippers run poorly or do they just operate under a different business model than everyone else? Sure, they don't win much, but Donald Sterling makes money off the team year in and year out. So, maybe he's not as much of a dumb *** as everyone things. If you're only in the NBA for the money, then Sterling runs the team well by generally keeping payroll down and not committing to big, long-term contracts. (I don't really believe this -- just playing Devil's advocate).