Thoughts on the Johnathon Martin - Ritchie Incognito situation?

[dmxfury]

You REALLY think Martin has the grounds to sue Incognito

Not one single teammate/witness would be on his side for that. With everything that's came out over the past 24 hours I wouldn't be suprised to see Martin completely back off this case. Dude is gonna end up looking like the biggest joke in the league.

Of course he can

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

You REALLY think Martin has the grounds to sue Incognito

Not one single teammate/witness would be on his side for that. With everything that's came out over the past 24 hours I wouldn't be suprised to see Martin completely back off this case. Dude is gonna end up looking like the biggest joke in the league.

If my moms and pops were attorneys that graduated from Harvard, I'm pretty sure they would know A LOT more about what they can and can not sue for compared to me and you. Not saying Martin is going to sue for some type of harrassment or distress but I wouldn't put it past him.

Also, if the NFL and Goddell thought this was some type of joke, why would they go out of their way to hire Ted Wells for this case?

Instead of being the "I told ya so" guy, why not wait until the invesigation is concluded?

 

[jjs07]

It doesn't matter who backs him up, or if it was a "joke". He did it, and ole boy didn't like it. Do I think it's a ***** move? Yes. Does "it' was a joke I promise" hold up in court? I don't think so.

Of course he can

If my moms and pops were attorneys that graduated from Harvard, I'm pretty sure they would know A LOT more about what they can and can not sue for compared to me and you. Not saying Martin is going to sue for some type of harrassment or distress but I wouldn't put it past him.

Also, if the NFL and Goddell thought this was some type of joke, why would they go out of their way to hire Ted Wells for this case?

Instead of being the "I told ya so" guy, why not wait until the invesigation is concluded?

You REALLY think Martin has the grounds to sue Incognito

Not one single teammate/witness would be on his side for that. With everything that's came out over the past 24 hours I wouldn't be suprised to see Martin completely back off this case. Dude is gonna end up looking like the biggest joke in the league.

Welp....

 

[blastercombo]

If my moms and pops were attorneys that graduated from Harvard, I'm pretty sure they would know A LOT more about what they can and can not sue for compared to me and you. Not saying Martin is going to sue for some type of harrassment or distress but I wouldn't put it past him.

Also, if the NFL and Goddell thought this was some type of joke, why would they go out of their way to hire Ted Wells for this case?

Instead of being the "I told ya so" guy, why not wait until the invesigation is concluded?

He also said NT is just a bunch of mall employees. Can't really respect the guy honestly

 

[blastercombo]

Linus VP, Cedric Ceballos and Black Migo (somewhat ) are the only ones making any sense in here.

The rest of you that got proved wrong either haven't posted in here since all the real information came out tonight, or are in here saying "whatever I don't even care about this anymore, I'm over it" like little immature kids.

OMG!! You mean to tell me we didn't comment on things that morning that were brought up LATER THAT NIGHT!?!? The shame! May I quit me job at the mall now?

 

[buc em]

Atleast DoubleJ's and some of the other ones sound like they have a workable brain, they just don't like to be told that their viewpoint is wrong.

Blastercombo....I don't wanna get banned.

You probably haven't even moved up to the mall. Go make me a slushie.

 

[blastercombo]

Atleast DoubleJ's and some of the other ones sound like they have a workable brain, they just don't like to be told that their viewpoint is wrong.

Blastercombo....I don't wanna get banned.

You probably haven't even moved up to the mall. Go make me a slushie.

Why are their viewpoints wrong? Because it's not yours? Oh I get it! If you don't agree then the other guy must work at the mall (or lower according to you) or not have a workable brain. Makes perfect sense! We more people like you in this world......


The whole "it's was a joke" excuse is not a valid one. If the guy getting punked doesn't think it's a joke then it's NOT. Everyone on earth could be in on it and it wouldn't matter.

The next argument of "well they were friends before" doesn't matter either. Obviously it bothered him or he wouldn't be at the mental hospital right now.

 

[linus vp]

I don't think the NFL can take it as a joke, especially with the saved voicemail and the racial/bullying hot-button issues at hand. I assume they're prepping for a case. The law and morality aren't always on the same page. People have won cases because they spilled hot coffee on themselves or broke their leg on an icy step when they were robbing a store. 

My point has been that this is not some special case, in which a psychotic-racist beat down a gentle giant in the locker room of wild debauchery. Martin was involved in hazing and pranks like moving another player's car and getting up from the lunch table before another guy sat down. He agreed to go on the O-Lineman trip to Vegas and then backed out. He and Incognito were pals on and off the field. Martin laughed about the voicemail and every player on the team agrees Incognito isn't racist. Where is the story? It all sounds like typical locker room stuff.

Martin got demoted to right tackle, battled with some mental stuff and had a breakdown. He left the facility and texted Incognito that it wasn't the players' faults. What changed? 

 

[alp]

I don't think the NFL can take it as a joke, especially with the saved voicemail and the racial/bullying hot-button issues at hand. I assume they're prepping for a case. The law and morality aren't always on the same page. People have won cases because they spilled hot coffee on themselves or broke their leg on an icy step when they were robbing a store. 

My point has been that this is not some special case, in which a psychotic-racist beat down a gentle giant in the locker room of wild debauchery. Martin was involved in hazing and pranks like moving another player's car and getting up from the lunch table before another guy sat down. He agreed to go on the O-Lineman trip to Vegas and then backed out. He and Incognito were pals on and off the field. Martin laughed about the voicemail and every player on the team agrees Incognito isn't racist. Where is the story? It all sounds like typical locker room stuff.

Martin got demoted to right tackle, battled with some mental stuff and had a breakdown. He left the facility and texted Incognito that it wasn't the players' faults. What changed? 

if true Martin is a *****

 

[RyGuy45]

So after another morning of hearing about this and the more info that's come out both here and in the news, I definitely see this as a non story. At best this seems to be a hostile workplace situation which happens thousands of times across the country. The media took this and blew it up way past what the story warranted (shocking). The deliberate holding and slow leak of info has skewed opinions and made it tough to grasp what was actually happening. But in the end it seems like a guy was unhappy at his job due to the actions of another employee. We can still debate our own feelings on those actions but in terms of this story, I'm done. Some good discussion in here with some of you, brought up great points that helped mold my opinion

I agree with this take. The level of hysteria is hilarious to me. All for two no-name offensive linemen the media could care less about normally.

Expecting the national media to be rational obviously is a waste of time.....but once again they top themselves with the stop the presses mentality...day after day after day.

This entire situation has almost nothing to do with the two players themselves as it has to do with the overall talker theme nationally right now.....which is bullying, cyber bullying, and suicides.

 

[buc em]

The last three posts...

/thread

 

[blastercombo]

I agree with this take. The level of hysteria is hilarious to me. All for two no-name offensive linemen the media could care less about normally.

Expecting the national media to be rational obviously is a waste of time.....but once again they top themselves with the stop the presses mentality...day after day after day.

This entire situation has almost nothing to do with the two players themselves as it has to do with the overall talker theme nationally right now.....which is bullying, cyber bullying, and suicides.

If espn is good at anything it's running a story into the ground, then dropping it. This'll run it's course. Baseball drama is over, NFL dog days are here, and the NBA just started. They need something to talk about

 

[linus vp]

Expecting the national media to be rational obviously is a waste of time.....but once again they top themselves with the stop the presses mentality...day after day after day.

This entire situation has almost nothing to do with the two players themselves as it has to do with the overall talker theme nationally right now.....which is bullying, cyber bullying, and suicides.

You are 100% right. I wouldn't be surprised to hear any of those keywords as we move further into this story. I am also kind of expecting to hear that a homophobic slur was used at one time or another in a text message or voicemail.

 

[CP1708]

On the Martin sue Richie angle, what witnesses will Martin have? Most likely zero.

He will have a voicemail.


That dozens of witnesses on Richie's side will claim Martin played over and over for months and laughed about it.

Richie, will have a text from Martin after Martin walked out saying that he wasn't mad at the guys, just that football got to him a lil bit.


The whole "paid for a vets trip to Vegas" angle has been debunked.

Pics of the two hanging out together in New Orleans, on their own no less.

It's now come out that Jonathan Martin himself, voted for Incognito on the team's leadership counsel.

You'll also have Martin getting into a fight with Dion Jordan, and Richie stepping in for Martin.


So I'm sorry, but I don't see a real good case for suing. Certainly his family is lawyer smart and all that, but right now it's a weak *** case filled with holes in it. The more info coming out, the worse it looks for Martin.

On the flip, if Richie is suspended over this and his career ruined, his free agent status destroyed, and he's deemed to be innocent of this "bullying" claim the media has ran with, well now, that's a lawsuit that could come. Right back in Martin's face. And sorry, but that's a stronger case right now than Martin and his months old voicemail that he used to play for teammates.

 

[beh235]

Damn, y'all still going? 

 

[sfc415]

If all this stuff about them being good friends is true, I take back comments I made earlier in here. I was just going off what information was available to us at the time.

Although my good friends and I leave family jokes aside, we say racist @#$% to each other and say things like "You'll die for that" without meaning them at all (but in a serious tone). People always comment "why do you guys hate each other so much" If incognito and Martin had the same relationship my friends and I have, Martin is definitely in the wrong here.

Something else might have happened between them, and Martin might be using out of context messages to paint Incognito in a bad light to get back at him

 

[cedric ceballos]

Its a whole other story and extreme but I remember back in 06 some girl accused some laccrose kids from duke of rape. The media and the general public went wild and ran wit that and it was guilty until proven innocent but regardless of what happened those kids had their name dragged through the mud and destroyed.

Obviously bullying accusations between grown men is a way less serious issue then rape but in both cases its crazy how the media can influence public opinion and treat someone as if their guilty until proven innocent.

 

[jjs07]

Martin is supposedly preparing a document that details why he left the team.

In fairness to him, we are only hearing one side of the story. He can give a little more clarity to the accusations if/when he speaks on the matter. Until then, it's open season on his character. And you guys are right in one regard...there is no ******g way he'll set foot in that Dolphins locker room again. Having lawyers in his family who are Harvard educated, probably gives him a great advantage as far as getting his story straight IF he does decide to pursue legal action. Which I'm willing to assume, he is.

Just came across this:

Miami Dolphins offensive tackle Jonathan Martin had issues with multiple players on the team, not just suspended guard Richie Incognito, his agent told ESPN's Mark Schwarz on Thursday.

Agent Rick Smith told ESPN that Martin is doing very well but wouldn't say when his client would return to the team.

ProFootballTalk.com, citing multiple league sources, reported Wednesday night that Smith called Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland before his client left the team Oct. 28 and complained about the manner in which the second-year player was being treated by Incognito.

In response, Ireland suggested Martin respond to Incognito physically and specifically mentioned that he should "punch" the veteran guard, the sources told ProFootballTalk.com.

Representatives for Martin have turned over evidence of harassment to the Dolphins, the NFL and the NFL Players Association.

Link

 

[RustyShackleford]

Its a whole other story and extreme but I remember back in 06 some girl accused some laccrose kids from duke of rape. The media and the general public went wild and ran wit that and it was guilty until proven innocent but regardless of what happened those kids had their name dragged through the mud and destroyed.

Obviously bullying accusations between grown men is a way less serious issue then rape but in both cases its crazy how the media can influence public opinion and treat someone as if their guilty until proven innocent.

Funny thing is, the lacrosse players used racial slurs too. Don't act like they weren't scumbags. They weren't rapist, but they were racist.

 

[CP1708]

If Ireland really told one guy to punch another, let's hope that gets his *** fired asap.

Thank you based Martin.

 

[linus vp]

Martin is supposedly preparing a document that details why he left the team.

In fairness to him, we are only hearing one side of the story. He can give a little more clarity to the accusations if/when he speaks on the matter. Until then, it's open season on his character. And you guys are right in one regard...there is no ******g way he'll set foot in that Dolphins locker room again. Having lawyers in his family who are Harvard educated, probably gives him a great advantage as far as getting his story straight IF he does decide to pursue legal action. Which I'm willing to assume, he is.

Just came across this:
Link

Agreed on both your main points - he won't play for the Dolphins and his parents will give him an advantage. Oddly enough, ESPN posted this story at 2:27, but are using outdated PFT information regarding the timeline.

UPDATE 11:04 a.m. ET 11/7/13:  A prior version of this story identified the agent as Rick Smith.  It was Kenny Zuckerman, who works with Smith at the same firm.  Also, a prior version of this story characterized the call as happening before Martin left the team.  The call happened after Martin left.

This may not be THAT important, but it does take away the argument that the Dolphins would've known he was bullied by Incognito before he left...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-that-martin-confront-incognito-physically/

 

[cedric ceballos]

Funny thing is, the lacrosse players used racial slurs too. Don't act like they weren't scumbags. They weren't rapist, but they were racist.

Correct me if im wrong but was it confirmed they actually used the racial slurs? I legitametely don't remember but I remember the girl saying they said racist stuff to her

Even if they did though, it didn't warrant being accused of rape. Racist people are scumbags and terrible people but even they don't deserve to be falsely accused of rape.

I'm waiting on Jonathan Martin to issue his side of the story on this though. I wonder if he had any idea this issue would get as big as it has when he made the initial complaint.

 

[duba169]

ER?

Hearing it w/ an "a" is everywhere....saying it in the manner in which Igcognito used it against Martin/Sapp is just flat out racist.

No not with an er.

This whole story is strange.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Funny thing is, the lacrosse players used racial slurs too. Don't act like they weren't scumbags. They weren't rapist, but they were racist.

Correct me if im wrong but was it confirmed they actually used the racial slurs? I legitametely don't remember but I remember the girl saying they said racist stuff to her

Even if they did though, it didn't warrant being accused of rape. Racist people are scumbags and terrible people but even they don't deserve to be falsely accused of rape.

I'm waiting on Jonathan Martin to issue his side of the story on this though. I wonder if he had any idea this issue would get as big as it has when he made the initial complaint.

There was a 2nd stripper said she didn't she see a rape, but the players did in fact use racial slurs

I'm not saying that using a racial slur warranted the charges, I'm saying that their names will forever be in the mud because they got exposed as racist too.

 

[buc em]

I'm thinking Martin had no idea this was going to get as big as it's gotten. I think he started this thing as an out for him to leave football and didn't think that a story involving himself, a pretty unknown player, along with another offensive linemen would garner this much attention.

He's just a scared pansy that didn't know what he was getting himself into.