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^Co-signOriginally Posted by Sidewayze
God made Adam and Eve, not Adam & Steve
People can't possible be that ignorant to believe that it's all good like they were produce by the same sex.
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^Co-signOriginally Posted by Sidewayze
God made Adam and Eve, not Adam & Steve
JsindaA wrote:
Originally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice
JsindaA wrote:
homie trailed off at the end but he has a point. like i said before, its the agenda attached to it.Originally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice
Damn, talk about your slippery slopes...Originally Posted by Untitled
mFury wrote:
gambit215 wrote:
once u open doors to tolerate a LIFESTYLE in which people DECIDE to participate in oral and anal sex with the same gender, you open pandoras box to God knows other perverted things people will say should be allowed because it makes them `happy`
I mean homosexuality has been taboo for hundreds of years but all of a sudden its cool...................whatever man, where do you draw the line? I mean I live by facts, if two male any other animals started screwing around we would say, hey thats not normal, lets establish some consistency people
Its not wrong to be homosexual, but its WRONG to be gay, i know some of you will say, isnt that the same thing? but its not, it sooooooooooooooo isnt
Several points that I think sum up this entire argument:
People who are against gay marriage claim:
1. Gay people choose to be gay
2. They can't reproduce, so it's unnatural and wrong
3. It says in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, so they shouldn't be allowed to marry
To which I say:
1. Gay people do NOT choose to be gay. Anyone who tries to make this argument either has extremely rigid beliefs about science or does not know any gay people well enough to have talked to them about it for a few moments and realized that it's not a choice. Why would so many people choose a lifestyle that attracts so much hate and controversy?
2. Gay people can't reproduce, that's true. But given our population growth rates that's not a bad thing. There's a ton of orphans that need parents, and I don't think they mind if they're both dudes. Also, some people are born infertile. Should they be allowed to marry?
3. And I can't believe people still make this argument-- why should someone's rights be dictated by someone else's religious beliefs?
Seriously, I dare anyone to find a rational argument to argue against any of the #+%% I just said.
Got you
1) If it's not a choice then what is it? I've seen hetero males/females become homosexual and vice versa....and only when they went from hetero to $%*% do they say...I've always been this way. 7 year olds aren't going around liking the same sex because they just like the same sex, they pick it up from SOMEWHERE and decide they want to follow it. Just like all the other habits they have. You don't see newborns liking the same sex....but of course when you are gay, you were born like that. Everything in life is a decision...concious or sub concious.
2) You don't plug a plug into...another plug. It goes in a socket....catch my drift.
3) We live in a country that was established on some christian beliefs so..................that would be why some religious beliefs dictate our laws.
1. You don't see a newborn with hair on their balls and a deep voice. Things change as people grow older and different hormones are released. Attraction, as it turns out, is controlled by hormones. Did you know that? Do you think it might be possible that people who are homosexual have a different balance of hormones than their heterosexual neighbors? And as for people coming out later in life, this makes perfect sense. It's not that they've all of the sudden decided to be gay, it's probably that they've been gay all along and have chosen to either repress it or not reveal it to anyone. Our society, as "progressive" as you might think, is still not a very gay-friendly place.
2. What you just said has nothing to do with this argument, is childish, and shows how simple minded you are. My second point was that it doesn't matter if two people can't propagate life... There are other ways that they can raise children and aid the human race. There are a lot of orphans in California alone, the vast majority of whom would love any family that wants them.
3. Yes, there are Christian beliefs instilled in our country's laws. Does this mean that when the Constitution doesn't tell us the answer, we should open up the Bible and see what it says in there? Is this honestly what you think? You know as well as I do that in this country the law recognizes and REQUIRES a separation of church and state. While I don't think it's wrong to live by Christian values, and I believe that following the Bible will help guide people to treat each other better, etc., it is extremely presumptuous and downright ignorant to think that your own religious beliefs should be the sole reasoning for passing a US law that imposes guidelines on a small group of people who may not necessarily share those same religious beliefs.
I'm not quite sure how you "got me"...
Got you meant a rational argument. anyways I'm done after this
1) Ok if we are going to say it's hormonal it's STILL not normal. Hormones normally attract men to women and vice versa...that would effectively destroy any normal argument anyone could ever have. This has nothing to do with the US society...it's viewed the same worldwide. So either the world is just not progressive...or......people are trying to force something that shouldn't be
2) Ok...there are alot of orphans....doesn't correlate to a gay union nor does it have anything to do with them not being able to reproduce. One of the main reasons people get married is to reproduce. Care to explain how what I said shows I'm "simple-minded"? Would it be because I don't view something the same as you? Because I realize something so simple as 2 of the same thing don't fit? Or maybe it's because I won't sit and try to force myself to believe something like that is just...normal. Given I know it's not. Whatever
3) It's not about opening the Bible. Homosexuality goes against christian VALUES. Heck it goes against human values. Talk to a straight male that supports gay marriage....and ask them why they aren't gay. They are gonna say either it's nasty, not normal, or (if they are one of the real progressive ones) they aren't attracted to males. If you ask them why they aren't attracted to males.....you are gonna get a round a bout answer.....everytime. Yes the church and state are to be seperated.....but when you bring up a law that is based pretty much entirely on a church issue....why would you expect the church to be seperate? Makes absolutely no sense.
After reading your rebuttals, I couldn't help but. Not only areyour views completely ignorant, the delivery of your argument is downright terrible.
1) Of course homosexual is not normal. Saying Hormonal error is the cause is saying Homosexuality is NOT a choice. You are born the way you are(Gay), but you're not given equal rights??? Civil Rights Issue.Originally Posted by JsindaA
Got you meant a rational argument. anyways I'm done after thisOriginally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice
Originally Posted by JsindaA
Got youOriginally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice
Originally Posted by Untitled
homie trailed off at the end but he has a point. like i said before, its the agenda attached to it.Originally Posted by mFury
Damn, talk about your slippery slopes...Originally Posted by gambit215
once u open doors to tolerate a LIFESTYLE in which people DECIDE to participate in oral and anal sex with the same gender, you open pandoras box to God knows other perverted things people will say should be allowed because it makes them `happy`
I mean homosexuality has been taboo for hundreds of years but all of a sudden its cool...................whatever man, where do you draw the line? I mean I live by facts, if two male any other animals started screwing around we would say, hey thats not normal, lets establish some consistency people
Its not wrong to be homosexual, but its WRONG to be gay, i know some of you will say, isnt that the same thing? but its not, it sooooooooooooooo isnt
Several points that I think sum up this entire argument:
People who are against gay marriage claim:
1. Gay people choose to be gay
2. They can't reproduce, so it's unnatural and wrong
3. It says in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, so they shouldn't be allowed to marry
To which I say:
1. Gay people do NOT choose to be gay. Anyone who tries to make this argument either has extremely rigid beliefs about science or does not know any gay people well enough to have talked to them about it for a few moments and realized that it's not a choice. Why would so many people choose a lifestyle that attracts so much hate and controversy?
2. Gay people can't reproduce, that's true. But given our population growth rates that's not a bad thing. There's a ton of orphans that need parents, and I don't think they mind if they're both dudes. Also, some people are born infertile. Should they be allowed to marry?
3. And I can't believe people still make this argument-- why should someone's rights be dictated by someone else's religious beliefs?
Seriously, I dare anyone to find a rational argument to argue against any of the #+%% I just said.
1) If it's not a choice then what is it? I've seen hetero males/females become homosexual and vice versa....and only when they went from hetero to $%*% do they say...I've always been this way. 7 year olds aren't going around liking the same sex because they just like the same sex, they pick it up from SOMEWHERE and decide they want to follow it. Just like all the other habits they have. You don't see newborns liking the same sex....but of course when you are gay, you were born like that. Everything in life is a decision...concious or sub concious.
2) You don't plug a plug into...another plug. It goes in a socket....catch my drift.
3) We live in a country that was established on some christian beliefs so..................that would be why some religious beliefs dictate our laws.
1. You don't see a newborn with hair on their balls and a deep voice. Things change as people grow older and different hormones are released. Attraction, as it turns out, is controlled by hormones. Did you know that? Do you think it might be possible that people who are homosexual have a different balance of hormones than their heterosexual neighbors? And as for people coming out later in life, this makes perfect sense. It's not that they've all of the sudden decided to be gay, it's probably that they've been gay all along and have chosen to either repress it or not reveal it to anyone. Our society, as "progressive" as you might think, is still not a very gay-friendly place.
2. What you just said has nothing to do with this argument, is childish, and shows how simple minded you are. My second point was that it doesn't matter if two people can't propagate life... There are other ways that they can raise children and aid the human race. There are a lot of orphans in California alone, the vast majority of whom would love any family that wants them.
3. Yes, there are Christian beliefs instilled in our country's laws. Does this mean that when the Constitution doesn't tell us the answer, we should open up the Bible and see what it says in there? Is this honestly what you think? You know as well as I do that in this country the law recognizes and REQUIRES a separation of church and state. While I don't think it's wrong to live by Christian values, and I believe that following the Bible will help guide people to treat each other better, etc., it is extremely presumptuous and downright ignorant to think that your own religious beliefs should be the sole reasoning for passing a US law that imposes guidelines on a small group of people who may not necessarily share those same religious beliefs.
I'm not quite sure how you "got me"...
1) Ok if we are going to say it's hormonal it's STILL not normal. Hormones normally attract men to women and vice versa...that would effectively destroy any normal argument anyone could ever have. This has nothing to do with the US society...it's viewed the same worldwide. So either the world is just not progressive...or......people are trying to force something that shouldn't be
2) Ok...there are alot of orphans....doesn't correlate to a gay union nor does it have anything to do with them not being able to reproduce. One of the main reasons people get married is to reproduce. Care to explain how what I said shows I'm "simple-minded"? Would it be because I don't view something the same as you? Because I realize something so simple as 2 of the same thing don't fit? Or maybe it's because I won't sit and try to force myself to believe something like that is just...normal. Given I know it's not. Whatever
3) It's not about opening the Bible. Homosexuality goes against christian VALUES. Heck it goes against human values. Talk to a straight male that supports gay marriage....and ask them why they aren't gay. They are gonna say either it's nasty, not normal, or (if they are one of the real progressive ones) they aren't attracted to males. If you ask them why they aren't attracted to males.....you are gonna get a round a bout answer.....everytime. Yes the church and state are to be seperated.....but when you bring up a law that is based pretty much entirely on a church issue....why would you expect the church to be seperate? Makes absolutely no sense.
After reading your rebuttals, I couldn't help but. Not only are your views completely ignorant, the delivery of your argument is downright terrible.
Pretty much. Good thing he is DONE after that pathetic argument.
Originally Posted by JPioneer
What's really the difference between gay people living together and living together being married to each other. I don't see the problem.
[h3]Why Are Some People Homosexual or Bisexual?[/h3]
Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation (including homosexuality and bisexuality) is the result of a combination of environmental, emotional, hormonal, and biological factors. In other words, there are many factors that contribute to a person's sexual orientation, and the factors may be different for different people.
However, homosexuality and bisexuality are not caused by the way a child was reared by his or her parents, or by having a sexual experience with someone of the same sex when the person was young. Also, being homosexual or bisexual does not mean the person is mentally ill or abnormal in some way, although there may be social problems that result from prejudicial attitudes or misinformation.
[h3]Can a Person's Sexual Orientation Be Changed?[/h3]
Most experts agree that sexual orientation is not a choice and, therefore, cannot be changed. Some people who are homosexual or bisexual may hide their sexual orientation and/or live as heterosexuals to avoid the prejudice that exists against people who are homosexual and bisexual or to avoid their own moral dilemmas felt when their sexual orientation is incompatible with their personal beliefs.
Originally Posted by sidneylov23
I always get a tickle inside when I hear these type of topics. One side I hear the Bible Thumper, NOT ADAM AND STEVE! On the other side I hear, who is God anyway Let's get one thing straight, the only reason why the founding fathers made it a priority that we learn to read, is so we could read the Bible, and the New England Primer. Our founding fathers understood that man could not govern himself, unless it would be pure chaos, hence what we have going on today. Homosexuality has always been around since the Babylonians reigned. Homosexuality is like animal play, that is all it is. Its not natural and its a lifestyle, that will wreak physical, and emotional havoc on those who live it. When people don't know their purpose they will abuse themselves! Lets go back back back, Judaism is the most Historically accurate religion ever, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, God is real, and He is the same God that led the Jews our of Egypt. Without laws human beings act like animals, you set the laws you create the culture, hence the 10 commandments. They Jews picked up the Egyptians lifestyle, so they needed a set of laws to change their culture. Since the 60's people have been saying their is no absolutes, but go ahead thinking that their is no absolute truth's in this life, don't worry whether you;ll make it to heaven or not. You will live Hell on this Earth, because God's word is sovereign, you reap what you sow, a life filled with vanities and hurts. Allowing homosexuality to be a part of our society leads me to hating Socrates idea of democracy, laws allowing homosexual marriage, is encouraging animalistic behavior, point blank. Shoot I have some beautiful cousins, should I ask to marry my cousin, or should I try to have children with them, no. We lack accountability and people think they can do this feel good crap, and live according to our eyes and feelings. When we had Kings the people were upright, and became accountable, or else! We LACK ACCOUNTABILITY. We can not govern ourselves, the greatest minds knew this. We are to blame for the 50% divorce rate, poverty, and single family homes. We need to return to the vision of the Founding fathers, we were the greatest nation when we followed their vision, and now we're imploding, go figure!
Originally Posted by sidneylov23
I always get a tickle inside when I hear these type of topics. One side I hear the Bible Thumper, NOT ADAM AND STEVE! On the other side I hear, who is God anyway Let's get one thing straight, the only reason why the founding fathers made it a priority that we learn to read, is so we could read the Bible, and the New England Primer. Our founding fathers understood that man could not govern himself, unless it would be pure chaos, hence what we have going on today. Homosexuality has always been around since the Babylonians reigned. Homosexuality is like animal play, that is all it is. Its not natural and its a lifestyle, that will wreak physical, and emotional havoc on those who live it. When people don't know their purpose they will abuse themselves! Lets go back back back, Judaism is the most Historically accurate religion ever, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, God is real, and He is the same God that led the Jews our of Egypt. Without laws human beings act like animals, you set the laws you create the culture, hence the 10 commandments. They Jews picked up the Egyptians lifestyle, so they needed a set of laws to change their culture. Since the 60's people have been saying their is no absolutes, but go ahead thinking that their is no absolute truth's in this life, don't worry whether you;ll make it to heaven or not. You will live Hell on this Earth, because God's word is sovereign, you reap what you sow, a life filled with vanities and hurts. Allowing homosexuality to be a part of our society leads me to hating Socrates idea of democracy, laws allowing homosexual marriage, is encouraging animalistic behavior, point blank. Shoot I have some beautiful cousins, should I ask to marry my cousin, or should I try to have children with them, no. We lack accountability and people think they can do this feel good crap, and live according to our eyes and feelings. When we had Kings the people were upright, and became accountable, or else! We LACK ACCOUNTABILITY. We can not govern ourselves, the greatest minds knew this. We are to blame for the 50% divorce rate, poverty, and single family homes. We need to return to the vision of the Founding fathers, we were the greatest nation when we followed their vision, and now we're imploding, go figure!
Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more.Originally Posted by sidneylov23
I always get a tickle inside when I hear these type of topics. One side I hear the Bible Thumper, NOT ADAM AND STEVE! On the other side I hear, who is God anyway Let's get one thing straight, the only reason why the founding fathers made it a priority that we learn to read, is so we could read the Bible, and the New England Primer. Our founding fathers understood that man could not govern himself, unless it would be pure chaos, hence what we have going on today. Homosexuality has always been around since the Babylonians reigned. Homosexuality is like animal play, that is all it is. Its not natural and its a lifestyle, that will wreak physical, and emotional havoc on those who live it. When people don't know their purpose they will abuse themselves! Lets go back back back, Judaism is the most Historically accurate religion ever, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, God is real, and He is the same God that led the Jews our of Egypt. Without laws human beings act like animals, you set the laws you create the culture, hence the 10 commandments. They Jews picked up the Egyptians lifestyle, so they needed a set of laws to change their culture. Since the 60's people have been saying their is no absolutes, but go ahead thinking that their is no absolute truth's in this life, don't worry whether you;ll make it to heaven or not. You will live Hell on this Earth, because God's word is sovereign, you reap what you sow, a life filled with vanities and hurts. Allowing homosexuality to be a part of our society leads me to hating Socrates idea of democracy, laws allowing homosexual marriage, is encouraging animalistic behavior, point blank. Shoot I have some beautiful cousins, should I ask to marry my cousin, or should I try to have children with them, no. We lack accountability and people think they can do this feel good crap, and live according to our eyes and feelings. When we had Kings the people were upright, and became accountable, or else! We LACK ACCOUNTABILITY. We can not govern ourselves, the greatest minds knew this. We are to blame for the 50% divorce rate, poverty, and single family homes. We need to return to the vision of the Founding fathers, we were the greatest nation when we followed their vision, and now we're imploding, go figure!
Allowing homosexuality to be a part of our society leads me to hating Socrates idea of democracy, laws allowing homosexual marriage, is encouraging animalistic behavior, point blank. Shoot I have some beautiful cousins, should I ask to marry my cousin, or should I try to have children with them, no. We lack accountability and people think they can do this feel good crap, and live according to our eyes and feelings. When we had Kings the people were upright, and became accountable, or else! We LACK ACCOUNTABILITY. We can not govern ourselves, the greatest minds knew this. We are to blame for the 50% divorce rate, poverty, and single family homes. We need to return to the vision of the Founding fathers, we were the greatest nation when we followed their vision, and now we're imploding, go figure!
hm?
we aren't imploding because of gays. we don't lack accountability because of gays.
i just want to know why people want to strip away the rights of another human being just because they are different. doesn't that sound unfair? justthink about the rights that we all have as humans. who are we to judge other people's lifestyles? if you wanna talk religion, then i believe it's Godwho should judge, and if you truly believe that gays are sinful, let God handle that at the pearly gates. this is strictly, in my honest opinion anyway, anissue on rights. and i don't think anyone's religious beliefs should cloud their perceptions on basic human rights.
Kickmatic23:
the only people who are gonna say no are either homophobs or people blinded by religion
Affirmative.ShoeHead117:
Honestly, I believe you have the right to choose your own lifestyle whether it be straight or homosexual
When did you choose to be straight/heterosexual? Clearly, there was a time when you thought 'Hmmmmmm, naked guys... or naked girls?Hmmmmmmmmm.' And apparently, you decided "I'll go with naked girls." That's cool; I'm just wondering when you made that choice.
You just compared gay marriage to bestiality... but I'm the one opening up a can of worms?Originally Posted by JsindaA
I'm not comparing....I'm just saying you're kinda opening a can of worms. I don't think it should be legal....nor do I think it should ever be an issue....just saying, thats the next stop on the road.Originally Posted by mFury
Originally Posted by JsindaA
I never once said an animal could. I'm saying there are crazies out here that will say hey I love my dog so I wanna marry it. It's incredibly stupid....and incredibly feasible. 80 years ago this wasn't even close to being the issue that it is now.Originally Posted by mFury
AGAIN with the slippery slope fallacy. You can think it's immoral all you want, that's fine. But I always have to laugh when people say stuff like, "Gay people getting married is gonna lead to them wanting to marry animals. Or inanimate objects." There is a BIG difference there. Whether you think gay sex is gross or unnatural or immoral, two people are consenting to that. An animal can't consent to get married.Originally Posted by JsindaA
As wild as it seems if you let this happen then you'll have loonies screaming for rights because they are "in love" with their animals.
Again, if you think it's immoral, that's fine. If you yourself don't choose to recognize their union, that's fine. But at the end of the day, they're not hurting anyone, or doing anything that harms you, so why is it such an issue. Let them live their lives and be happy.
Yeah, and that should be illegal because an animal can't consent. That's not really comparable to gays because two gays can consent.
ReliantJ:
KingofIlladelph:
Thousands upon thousands of gay couples live together, have families, and lead lifestyles that parallel most American families. That will never change. So what will be different if they are allowed the same rights? They'll still hold hands in public. They'll still engage in sexual acts. And you'll still have to explain homosexuality to your kids. Seriously, what do you gain by opposing gay marriage?
"It will confirm my fragile confidence in my sexuality"
Suggesting that people are anti-'gay marriage' because they are insecure in their sexuality is a tired and baseless as the argument fromthe opposite side suggesting that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because then people would be allowed to marry animals.
Some people who are completely comfortable and aware of their sexuality feel that allowing gay marriage would drop the collective morality of the country alittle more, and they're opposing that.
No, I'm not one of those people. I don't oppose gay marriage.
Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000
I just dont want gays coming up to me thinking its okay to hit on me or try to holla. If they don't than we cool. I just don't like those super out there, feminine like sandals, braid hair, flambos. I can't stand them but I'll still treat them with respect.
is that really? Steve being Mormon i would think he would be yes on 8...Originally Posted by ReliantJ
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