Washington Wizards 2012-2013 Season Thread - Thanks for a great year!

[jsindaa]

Lol at that entire article....and how exactly is Kyrie so elite and say Steph curry is not? Or even Wall? When the only thing he does extremely well is shoot/score. Curry does as well along with being a better passer. And wall does everything on the court better besides shoot. Smh

 

[dt43]

that article is ridiculous. Steve Francis? Wall is a shoot first PG? A shoot first PG who averages less than 14 attempts per game to go with 8 assists? Whoever was involved in that article was literally clueless.

I hope that somehow Wall is reading/hearing some of these comments.

 

[thekingofva]

Really man?

I was being a homer, forgive me. I should have just said that he has potential to be a top 5 sg. But the current sg crop is so weak right now that since 2013 Beal has been maybe the 5th best sg in the NBA in 2013.

 

[thekingofva]

Yeah that article is so biased that I had to comment on espn about it. Just look at the espn comments section, everyone is bashing it. To call Wall a shoot first PG is absurd.

 

[hypebeast5]

​

Give me the link

Ain't no body bashing my boy calling him a shoot first point guard

without hearing it from me

 

[MajinZuub]

Lol at that entire article....and how exactly is Kyrie so elite and say Steph curry is not? Or even Wall? When the only thing he does extremely well is shoot/score. Curry does as well along with being a better passer. And wall does everything on the court better besides shoot. Smh

I'm a big Wall fan but him and Steph ain't touching Kyrie right now.

 

[jsindaa]

I'm a big Wall fan but him and Steph ain't touching Kyrie right now.

You might wanna check Stephs numbers bruh. He's balling just doesn't have the name. Wall avg. 22/11 per 36. Kyrie in no way runs a team better than Wall either. Simply put he is a scorer. I'm in no way taking anything away from him, I think he's great. However the other two are as well. His game is exciting but watching the games he's no more elite than the other two...simply is perception.

 

[MajinZuub]

I'm a big Wall fan but him and Steph ain't touching Kyrie right now.

You might wanna check Stephs numbers bruh. He's balling just doesn't have the name. Wall avg. 22/11 per 36. Kyrie in no way runs a team better than Wall either. Simply put he is a scorer. I'm in no way taking anything away from him, I think he's great. However the other two are as well. His game is exciting but watching the games he's no more elite than the other two...simply is perception.

Steph can ball but he isn't capable of half the things Kyrie and even Wall are. Both own him as far as leadership, all around scoring (Steph's got the 3 ball on them no question), and ball handling. Steph is frail as **** and can't play defense either. Considering Kyrie is only in his 2nd year, does he not look significantly better than Wall and Steph did at this point? Wall ain't had **** to work with but it's not like Kyrie has either. Regardless, I think Wall will have a nice career in the league whether it's with the Wizards or not, hopefully you guys get him the help he deserves and make some noise within the next few years.

 

[jsindaa]

Steph can ball but he isn't capable of half the things Kyrie and even Wall are. Both own him as far as leadership, all around scoring (Steph's got the 3 ball on them no question), and ball handling. Steph is frail as **** and can't play defense either. Considering Kyrie is only in his 2nd year, does he not look significantly better than Wall and Steph did at this point? Wall ain't had **** to work with but it's not like Kyrie has either.

no not really. Better than Steph absolutely. But what outside of shooting is he doing significantly better than Wall? Wall isn't close to a shoot first pg and still puts up about the same amount of points while averaging way more assists, more steals, blocks and rebounds. With a much worse cast...well up til now. All I can say about Kyrie is his game overall is just smoother. So I guess in that sense yes it does look like he's better but when you get to the end of the game I can't say he's impacted the game more than Wall has. Sans shooting he has done absolutely nothing wall can't or hasn't already done. That cannot be said vice versa. So imo neither is elite while the other is not.

 

[MajinZuub]

Steph can ball but he isn't capable of half the things Kyrie and even Wall are. Both own him as far as leadership, all around scoring (Steph's got the 3 ball on them no question), and ball handling. Steph is frail as **** and can't play defense either. Considering Kyrie is only in his 2nd year, does he not look significantly better than Wall and Steph did at this point? Wall ain't had **** to work with but it's not like Kyrie has either.

no not really. Better than Steph absolutely. But what outside of shooting is he doing significantly better than Wall? Wall isn't close to a shoot first pg and still puts up about the same amount of points while averaging way more assists, more steals, blocks and rebounds. With a much worse cast...well up til now. All I can say about Kyrie is his game overall is just smoother. So I guess in that sense yes it does look like he's better but when you get to the end of the game I can't say he's impacted the game more than Wall has. Sans shooting he has done absolutely nothing wall can't or hasn't already done. That cannot be said vice versa. So imo neither is elite while the other is not.

I wouldn't say either are "elite," just that Kyrie is on a better path to be than John. I can't argue stats and ****, it's just my analysis from watching them both play.

 

[hypebeast5]

Steph can ball but he isn't capable of half the things Kyrie and even Wall are. Both own him as far as leadership, all around scoring (Steph's got the 3 ball on them no question), and ball handling. Steph is frail as **** and can't play defense either. Considering Kyrie is only in his 2nd year, does he not look significantly better than Wall and Steph did at this point? Wall ain't had **** to work with but it's not like Kyrie has either.

no not really. Better than Steph absolutely. But what outside of shooting is he doing significantly better than Wall? Wall isn't close to a shoot first pg and still puts up about the same amount of points while averaging way more assists, more steals, blocks and rebounds. With a much worse cast...well up til now. All I can say about Kyrie is his game overall is just smoother. So I guess in that sense yes it does look like he's better but when you get to the end of the game I can't say he's impacted the game more than Wall has. Sans shooting he has done absolutely nothing wall can't or hasn't already done. That cannot be said vice versa. So imo neither is elite while the other is not.

I wouldn't say either are "elite," just that Kyrie is on a better path to be than John. I can't argue stats and ****, it's just my analysis from watching them both play.

Right now it hurts me to say

Stephan> Kyrie> John

Stephan can light it up better than both of them

John is the best distributor of those 3

Kyrie is special but this year he's looking like a scorer more than a point guard

 

[MajinZuub]

Kyries' been more of a scorer but who is he expected to distribute the ball to? Varejao is his best go to option, at least Jamison put up 20 a game last year.

 

[hypebeast5]

Kyries' been more of a scorer but who is he expected to distribute the ball to? Varejao is his best go to option, at least Jamison put up 20 a game last year.

I understand what your saying

There really isn't anyone to pass to on that horrid team

I feel John was in the same situation but still managed to average 8 apg with those bad wizards teams from the past

But I agree with you with the Cavs it's more efficient for him to score

I don't feel tho he will be a high assist guy

 

[dt43]

Let's be real, if Kyrie was a playmaker he would be showing it, idc who his teammates are. CP3 averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Rubio averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Wall averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Kidd averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team.
Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now, but you can basically predict his career arc already. He will be a more efficient Gilbert Arenas with better bball IQ and playmaking ability. Peak averages will probably be around 28-6-4.

That's great for him and I'm sure he'll make plenty of All-Star teams, but that playing style doesn't necessarily produce wins. People talk about Lebron turning the franchise around, but Bron as a forward averaged more assists than Kyrie in his first two years. You can't turn a franchise around with a scoring PG, you need a playmaker you can build around.

Like I said, I believe Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now. But I still wouldn't trade Wall for Kyrie, no way. Give Wall an elite wing shooter (Beal?) and an elite PF and you can guarantee he will spread the ball around and average 10+ apg. IDK if you can say the same for Irving.


The other issue is that the Cavs drafted two players who are almost redundant in Kyrie and Waiters. Their skillsets overlap because both are scorers, and both like having the ball and attacking off the dribble. In the Cavs games I've seen, when Kyrie is scoring Waiters is watching the ball. When Waiters is scoring, Kyrie is watching the ball. Compare that to the Wizards with Wall/Beal. They complement each other perfectly because Wall is a pass-first, drive and dish PG and Beal is an intelligent shooter who picks his spots and can knock down shots without needing to dribble (unlike his predecessor Nick Young). Also, Kyrie/Waiters are pretty bad defensively while Wall/Beal look like they will be an elite defensive duo within a few years.

Not hating on the Cavs/Kyrie or anything, but I think it's interesting to compare seeing as both teams are young and in similar situations.

 

[MajinZuub]

Let's be real, if Kyrie was a playmaker he would be showing it, idc who his teammates are. CP3 averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Rubio averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Wall averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Kidd averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team.
Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now, but you can basically predict his career arc already. He will be a more efficient Gilbert Arenas with better bball IQ and playmaking ability. Peak averages will probably be around 28-6-4.

That's great for him and I'm sure he'll make plenty of All-Star teams, but that playing style doesn't necessarily produce wins. People talk about Lebron turning the franchise around, but Bron as a forward averaged more assists than Kyrie in his first two years. You can't turn a franchise around with a scoring PG, you need a playmaker you can build around.

Like I said, I believe Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now. But I still wouldn't trade Wall for Kyrie, no way. Give Wall an elite wing shooter (Beal?) and an elite PF and you can guarantee he will spread the ball around and average 10+ apg. IDK if you can say the same for Irving.


The other issue is that the Cavs drafted two players who are almost redundant in Kyrie and Waiters. Their skillsets overlap because both are scorers, and both like having the ball and attacking off the dribble. In the Cavs games I've seen, when Kyrie is scoring Waiters is watching the ball. When Waiters is scoring, Kyrie is watching the ball. Compare that to the Wizards with Wall/Beal. They complement each other perfectly because Wall is a pass-first, drive and dish PG and Beal is an intelligent shooter who picks his spots and can knock down shots without needing to dribble (unlike his predecessor Nick Young). Also, Kyrie/Waiters are pretty bad defensively while Wall/Beal look like they will be an elite defensive duo within a few years.

Not hating on the Cavs/Kyrie or anything, but I think it's interesting to compare seeing as both teams are young and in similar situations.

Oh I wouldn't trade Wall by any means right now, dude has a big future ahead of him IMO., I just personally think Kyrie has shown more in his year and a half than Wall has thus far. Both backcourts have guys that can move both franchises forward, it's just a matter of if, how and when with them.

 

[dt43]

^Agreed. All of our predictions aside Kyrie is probably my favorite player to watch right now. It's a fun time to be an NBA fan seeing all these young guys develop

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Like I said, I believe Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now. But I still wouldn't trade Wall for Kyrie, no way. Give Wall an elite wing shooter (Beal?) and an elite PF and you can guarantee he will spread the ball around and average 10+ apg. IDK if you can say the same for Irving.

You must be his father or something.

 

[hypebeast5]

There are many who wouldn't either, you acting like that statement is asinine

How many franchises won big with a shoot first PG?

Ima be waiting

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Didn't know we were talking about winning a ring. I thought we were simply talking about who was better.

Yea others wouldn't do it but that doesn't mean much.

I really don't know how you wouldn't make that straight up hypothetical trade. Like I said unless there is an emotional investment there. Anyone outside of living range of or fans of NC, DC, and KY, I don't see anyone that would make that statement.

 

[jking0821]

One of the first discussions ive seen in S&T that both sided posted really good points and no one got offended. Great stuff guys.

I completely agree with both of you. Kyrie is fun to watch, that kids handles are insane. But idk if him shooting a lot is because thats him, or because Cleveland is horrible and if not him....then who?

I think its too early to condemn john wall to mediocrity. Composure comes with age and experience, ask Lebron about that. I think Wall can develop into great player. And even if he really never develops a mid range/deep game he can get to the bucket extremely fast and force the defense to collapse. That is a nightmare for defenses. It's what i always loved about Russel Westbrook. He would rebound and run foul line to foul line either pull up for a jumper take it in or dish. And when his jumper is falling that dude is almost un-guardable. Give wall some time, let Beal develop and in two years if they aren't at least 8th seed in the east worthy then we can say Wall is a disappointment.

 

[hypebeast5]

I'm not disagreeing that it's Kyrie > Wall

I thought it was just about building a winning team

 

[jjs07]

Let's be real, if Kyrie was a playmaker he would be showing it, idc who his teammates are. CP3 averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Rubio averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Wall averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team. Kidd averaged 8apg as a rookie on a bad team.
Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now, but you can basically predict his career arc already. He will be a more efficient Gilbert Arenas with better bball IQ and playmaking ability. Peak averages will probably be around 28-6-4.

That's great for him and I'm sure he'll make plenty of All-Star teams, but that playing style doesn't necessarily produce wins. People talk about Lebron turning the franchise around, but Bron as a forward averaged more assists than Kyrie in his first two years. You can't turn a franchise around with a scoring PG, you need a playmaker you can build around.

Like I said, I believe Kyrie is a more valuable player than Wall right now. But I still wouldn't trade Wall for Kyrie, no way. Give Wall an elite wing shooter (Beal?) and an elite PF and you can guarantee he will spread the ball around and average 10+ apg. IDK if you can say the same for Irving.


The other issue is that the Cavs drafted two players who are almost redundant in Kyrie and Waiters. Their skillsets overlap because both are scorers, and both like having the ball and attacking off the dribble. In the Cavs games I've seen, when Kyrie is scoring Waiters is watching the ball. When Waiters is scoring, Kyrie is watching the ball. Compare that to the Wizards with Wall/Beal. They complement each other perfectly because Wall is a pass-first, drive and dish PG and Beal is an intelligent shooter who picks his spots and can knock down shots without needing to dribble (unlike his predecessor Nick Young). Also, Kyrie/Waiters are pretty bad defensively while Wall/Beal look like they will be an elite defensive duo within a few years.

Not hating on the Cavs/Kyrie or anything, but I think it's interesting to compare seeing as both teams are young and in similar situations.

Good points and pretty much sums up how I feel.

Kyrie can score on just about anyone in the league...but I don't think of him in the "PG" mold. I see him as more of a scoring guard.

 

[dt43]

Didn't know we were talking about winning a ring. I thought we were simply talking about who was better.

Yea others wouldn't do it but that doesn't mean much.

I really don't know how you wouldn't make that straight up hypothetical trade. Like I said unless there is an emotional investment there. Anyone outside of living range of or fans of NC, DC, and KY, I don't see anyone that would make that statement.

But I stated multiple times that I thought Kyrie was the better player right now.

The reason why I wouldn't make that trade is because I'm thinking about the future. If Kyrie is better than John, good for him. But Wall has the potential to be a more valuable player down the line because of the type of player he is. In fact, even if Wall is never better than Kyrie for the duration of their careers, I would still not want to make that trade. Why? Because he's a playmaking, pass-first PG which is ideal to build around. Pair him with a dominant PF, and even if he only ended up being the second-best player on the team he would still be more valuable to a winning squad.

Look at it this way.. Does Westbrook put up better numbers than Rondo? Yes. Do you think the Celts would have traded Rondo for Westbrook on their ECF teams? Not a chance. Rondo's playmaking and defense was critical to the success of the guys around him, even if he wasn't iso'ing people up and dropping 25 a night.

 

[finallyfamous]

Come on now DT....

 

[dt43]

You're disagreeing?