Washington Wizards 2012-2013 Season Thread - Thanks for a great year!

[chochocho11]

john wall is all athleticism right now.  he needs to learn from a vet like andre miller or look at guys like chris paul or even kyrie and lillard to learn about pacing and controlling his speed.  dude goes warp speed all the time.  it's definitely a craft and not easy to learn. 

 

[dt43]

Points taken.. everything I said aside, what I love about John is his intensity and willingness to get better. You can really tell that he wants to be a leader, and he wants to improve.

But it's just unnerving watching a 3rd-year player make the same unacceptable rookie mistakes game after game. I don't even know if I can call them rookie mistakes, because when I watch Damian Lillard play he has more poise than Wall does in 100 fewer games of experience. It makes you wonder how much he's really working on his game. Obviously he's working on his jumper which is a glaring hole, but is he focusing on the little things that are necessary to be a great point guard? I don't know, maybe we'll see that improvement after he has a full offseason this summer.



Let me ask you JS34, you say you're not ready to "throw in the towel" on John. What does that mean specifically? Because I'm not saying he won't be a good 'All Star'-ish level player in the future, but I'm not really seeing him ever being an elite Westbrook/Rondo/Rose caliber PG. If I said that I would be lying to myself. I think he will be solid though.

You do realize Damian Lillard is older than John Wall right? Albeit only by a couple months, but you've just made the argument and stance (which I agree with) of why it is so imporant to spend a couple years (at least 3 IMO) playing college basketball. You learn so much in College from a good Coach and it gives you time to mature mentally/physically. Coming into the league at 19/20 is tough physically/mentally and one doesn't have a lot of time to learn (especially when you are in a lock-out season and you play with talent that wouldn't even make the And-1 mixtape tour).

I'm not making excuses for John (even though they sound like it), but playing with Javale, Nick Young, Andray and that goofball troop of scrubs didn't help John at all. A good veteran PG or even players around him could have sped up his learning process these last two years. Factor in this knee injury and it is still early early on for him.

What I mean is, I don't want to see the Wizards without John Wall in two years. You drafted this man number one and he has played well with his first real talented piece (Beal). Add some quality players to the roster and mold this team into a contender in the next 3-5 years.

Lillard spent 4 years playing against teams like Montana State in the Big Sky conference. Wall has spent 3 years in the NBA, being paid to play professionally full-time. And if you're gonna bring up age.. Jrue Holiday is just TWO months older than Wall, and he was playing in the All-Star game last month. My point is, it doesn't reflect well on John any way you slice it.

I'm with you, I want Wall to stick around. But I'm adjusting my expectations for him. My only concern is that we don't end up paying him like an All-Star or elite PG if he isn't that caliber of player. It's looking like he won't be the type of guy who can carry a franchise, but can be a great piece on a winning team. If that's the case, hopefully we pay him what he's worth so we have enough money to acquire those pieces. Beal is a great start, we will need to add a young big man as well.

What we're seeing out of Wall right now is how he should have been performing as a rookie. His development was 100% hindered due to the team that was built around him. Doesn't excuse last night - because that was as poor of a last minute of a game that I've seen - but there is a REAL fickle mentality with many in the Wizards fanbase when it comes to judging John Wall.

He plays well and hits clutch FGs vs. the Nuggets and 76ers and it's crickets...he plays poorly, and it's all doom and gloom.

We're going to have growing pains with him....as he goes, so does the team. I'm nowhere nearly as down on him as some of you all are. He's 22. There's a lot of time left for him to develop properly. The last thing I want is for this team to give up on him prematurely and he flourishes elsewhere.

Personally I'm not down on Wall at all, I just think we should all adjust our expectations. Not gonna hold my breath on him ever becoming top 5 PG status. But if he can develop into a Ty Lawson-level player (who is a great PG in his own right) I'll be very happy, as long as we don't give him the max.

 

[chochocho11]

at least john wall looks to have a will to learn and to get better.  and he seem to have a decent work ethnic. 

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Well it seems we are all on the same page even with our different idealogies.

The one line I don't agree with is:

"Wall has spent 3 years in the NBA, being paid to play professionally full-time."


Him being paid to play professionally doesn't really have relevance....he was playing with people that were bringing him down and almost forcing regression upon him. He didn't learn to trust teammates, be uplifted or have a positive working environment.

I'm sure we have all had jobs with negative working environments and it is toxic. It is dehabilitating and doesn't promote growth. That's what the Wizards were. Factor in a Lock-Out and this knee injury this year after he put in a lot of work during the Summer and it leads to tons of skeptics getting ready to write him off.


Damian Lillard's college team and atmosphere was more healthy and growth encouraging than the Wizards were....no matter who they played.

 

[extraordinary swag]

couldn't throw it in the ocean nor stop Deron Williams in the first half, game was over early

get well soon Bradley

 

[dt43]

Well it seems we are all on the same page even with our different idealogies.

The one line I don't agree with is:

"Wall has spent 3 years in the NBA, being paid to play professionally full-time."


Him being paid to play professionally doesn't really have relevance....he was playing with people that were bringing him down and almost forcing regression upon him. He didn't learn to trust teammates, be uplifted or have a positive working environment.

I'm sure we have all had jobs with negative working environments and it is toxic. It is dehabilitating and doesn't promote growth. That's what the Wizards were. Factor in a Lock-Out and this knee injury this year after he put in a lot of work during the Summer and it leads to tons of skeptics getting ready to write him off.


Damian Lillard's college team and atmosphere was more healthy and growth encouraging than the Wizards were....no matter who they played.

That last statement is funny (and sad) because it's true.. you're right about that.





Wall said a couple days ago that he considered himself a "top 10 PG" in the league.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226580/Wall-Puts-Himself-Amongst-Top-10-NBA-Point-Guards

Obviously we want him to have that confidence, but from the point of view of someone who isn't John Wall that statement appears to be far from the truth. Someone on RealGM posted this:

PGs who are unquestionably better than Wall:
Paul
Parker
Rose
Westbrook
Rondo
Irving
Curry
Lowry
D.Williams
Holiday
Lawson
Conley

PG's who are arguably better than Wall:
Jennings
Dragic
Teague
Jack
Lillard
Nash
Collison
Felton
Rubio
Calderon
Kemba Walker

All these guys except Rubio are putting up better numbers than Wall. The only argument in Wall's favor are his defense and his ability to "put pressure" on the defense, whatever that means. I don't really buy it. You're not putting pressure on the other team when you consistently take bad shots and turn the ball over in close ball games.

I would agree for the most part. It's been 3 years and our #1 overall pick has not clearly separated himself from the top 20 at his position, not talk of top 10..

He's not the only young/inexperienced player on that list either, nor the only one on a bad team. We can't keep using that when there are guys around his age or younger doing better than him, in areas he should have improved on by now.. *sigh*

 

[dt43]

Ariza was cooking today

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Anybody going to the game on Wednesday?

About to show support for my dude Larry Sanders (VCU) for the second time this season. Hope the Wiz get that W still though.

 

[jsindaa]

Just a couple pages ago everyone was fine with Wall now he's worse than Jose Calderon? -_- Lord forbid the kid has a slump. I mean Beal was absolutely trash along with the rest of the team in his absence and now Jose freakin Calderon is mentioned in the same breath? Way too much living in the moment

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Just a couple pages ago everyone was fine with Wall now he's worse than Jose Calderon? -_- Lord forbid the kid has a slump. I mean Beal was absolutely trash along with the rest of the team in his absence and now Jose freakin Calderon is mentioned in the same breath? Way too much living in the moment

People are fickle as hell these days. What have you done for me lately? I for one am not ruled by my emotions. I saw the horrendous Wizards team play live back in November/December and it was truly a waste of time and money.


With Wall they play with passion, intensity and believe they have a chance to win. Which is all I ask of a team competing. I will never question Wall's commitment/dedication and will/desire to win. Does he need to work on his game/decision making/pace? Of course. I have no doubts he will do so and barring an injury free Summer, I think he can make the All-Star team next year.


People get too caught up in the moment and forget time and situation.....the same thing the criticize Wall for doing, you are doing as fans.

 

[victor page]

Just a couple pages ago everyone was fine with Wall now he's worse than Jose Calderon? -_- Lord forbid the kid has a slump. I mean Beal was absolutely trash along with the rest of the team in his absence and now Jose freakin Calderon is mentioned in the same breath? Way too much living in the moment

You talking like Jose Calderon is a bum or something. 

Dude is top 3 in assists to to ratio almost every damn year. He might not have a 40 inch vertical or go end to end with elite speed but he DAMN sure knows how to run a team.

 

[victor page]

Former Washington Wizards  point guard Shaun Livingston  has found a home in Cleveland as the backup (and now starter) to Kyrie Irving. Livingston had a second stint with the Wizards prior to signing in Cleveland, but he was ineffective and was released in late December. The Cavaliers  picked him up and have reaped the benefits.

Recently, Livingston was critical of the Wizards' organization, suggesting it had "a lack of structure from an organizational standpoint."* On the day of his first game against Washington since, he elaborated a bit on those comments.Via Michael Lee:

"The structure, system wasn't necessarily...it's tough to elaborate without really going overboard," Livingston said. "It's just sometimes I think I work a little better with more structure and the personnel, sometimes you play better with certain guys that put you in position to succeed and I wasn't necessarily able do that for the team. I don't think my skill set was being utilized to help guys. For whatever reason. I can't put the blame on the coaches. Sometimes the players and chemistry didn't fit as well."

Later, he said that while he liked the Wizards' coaches, he noted that "sometimes it takes both management and the coaching staff to be on the same page."

Was that a shot at Wizards' GM Ernie Grunfeld, who released him? Was that a fair observation at the general atmosphere in D.C.? Or is it just sour grapes that Livingston walked into a team that lacked its most important players and was forced to play a role he couldn't play?

 

[mrtarheel]

Everyone knows the problem but Ted smh... but you learn to accept this as a Wizards fan. You love the Wizards but you also hate the Wizards

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

You talking like Jose Calderon is a bum or something. 

Dude is top 3 in assists to to ratio almost every damn year. He might not have a 40 inch vertical or go end to end with elite speed but he DAMN sure knows how to run a team.

I know right. Calderon is a beast. He was killing the Wizards when I saw him a couple weeks ago.



Beal needs to come back for this game tonight. I went to the Bucks game earlier in the year and he and Brandon Jennings got into at the end of the game when a scuffle broke out after a hard foul.

 

[jsindaa]

You talking like Jose Calderon is a bum or something. 

Dude is top 3 in assists to to ratio almost every damn year. He might not have a 40 inch vertical or go end to end with elite speed but he DAMN sure knows how to run a team.

No I'm talking like Calderon isn't in the same realm as a player as Wall. I didn't say he doesn't know how to run a team....but he's not going and winning you a game, ever.

 

[victor page]

No I'm talking like Calderon isn't in the same realm as a player as Wall. I didn't say he doesn't know how to run a team....but he's not going and winning you a game, ever.

He's not?

He just ******* on the Wizards with 18 assists a few weeks ago with a Pistons squad who might be equally as terrible. What are you saying?

 

[jsindaa]

He's not?

He just ******* on the Wizards with 18 assists a few weeks ago with a Pistons squad who might be equally as terrible. What are you saying?

Man what the hell? No. Jose had never in his life been anywhere near as talented as Wall. He had 18 assists...oh ok that's cool has Wall not had games with extremely high assist totals? So because he has a great ast/to ratio he's somehow in the same class as a player who could EASILY be one of the best players let alone pgs in the league? How stupid can one be? Does wall have things he needs to improve? Absolutely. But he is without question a better player than Jose. Stop living in the moment

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

Just got back from the game. Caught another game with fellow NTer TheKingofVA and a couple other friends.

Good to see fellow VCU Ram Larry Sanders ball out and if the Bucks would have fed him more and less of Monta chucking......the Bucks would have sustained that comeback for the win.


Great all around team win though. I think 5 or more Wizards had double figures and they even withstood Ariza fumbling almost every ball he touched and jacking up step back threes.


Condolences to my man wearing the Portland gear who got snuffed by some drunken piece of white trash for his chick talking reckless.

 

[jking0821]

Good win last night glad we didn't fold after they overcame the 22 point deficit or whatever it was.

But there were flashes last night from John....that stop move on B. Jen....the crowd all "ooooooooooo" pulls the trigger on the 3....it actually falls. Watching that play alone makes you wonder just how good john could be if he ever got a consistent jumper. Granted that was his 3rd made 3 of the YEAR....but it was pretty.

I also love Martell Webster....great halftime interview by him seems like he really wants to play hard and get better.

 

[extraordinary swag]

Martell has been one of the more reliable guys on the team all year very appreciative of his effort

 

[jjs07]

Martell has been one of the more reliable guys on the team all year very appreciative of his effort

re-signing him is a must.

 

[jjs07]

How great is this?

WASHINGTON -- Randy Wittman believes John Wall is one of the smartest players he's ever coached. His proof? The Wizards' point guard is the first one to call out the other team's plays.

"He knows, from a scouting standpoint, the plays that the other team [runs]. He'll call that out sometimes, which is pretty good. [He remembers] that we've played Milwaukee three times and that '54 Dive' is a play for [Ersan] Ilyasova. That's a talent you can't teach," the Wizards' coach says.

Being intelligent and playing intelligent are two different things, though, and the latter often eludes Wall. His speed is addicting, his leaping ability a blessing and a curse. When he discovers a sliver of daylight, it's easy for him to think that these tools will allow him to make a play out of it.

But as he's discovered over the past three years, not even his natural gifts are enough to do what he thinks he can do all the time. Translating natural smarts to on-court intelligence has proved difficult.

Wednesday's 106-93 win over the Milwaukee Bucks was different. The lightbulb seemed to go off, at least for one night. Wall dished out 10 assists with just two turnovers, scored when needed and dominated a game in all facets against a surging Bucks squad. Save for one highlight maneuver on a three-pointer, he didn't overwhelm. He just made the right passes when they were there, attacked lanes when they existed and shot with confidence when he was open.

Rest of Article in Link

Wall has all the tools to be one of the best PGs in the NBA. Giving up on him right now would be extremely idiotic. I honestly can't believe that's the sentiment amongst people on RealGM and elsewhere. DC has a chance to develop something VERY special between him and Beal.

We're going to get this thing turned around.

 

[Platinum State]

^
Maybe. But would you pay him max money after next season?
I dont think he's worth it. Hope he accepts a 10-12 milli 4 year deal.

 

[jjs07]

^
Maybe. But would you pay him max money after next season?
I dont think he's worth it. Hope he accepts a 10-12 milli 4 year deal.

Depends on how he plays next year....I think he's really going to step his game next season. Gotta keep Wall/Beal together.

 

[thekingofva]

If Wall keeps playing like this then he will get the max and he will deserve it. The kid is looking like a top 3 pg in the league this week. His J is looking very improved, I hope he keeps it up. Hmm maybe John Wall can win the player of the week award.

In the last 5 Wall is 5-6 3PT (83.3 % from three), and 18-22 FT (81.8% from the line). Also, Wall has averaged: 21.75 pts, 10.0 assists, 4.75 rebounds, 2.3 steals, .8 blocks, 3.0 turnovers.