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lol wut?
What would a player have to do to be considered greater than Jordan?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by poeticjays,
- Start date
lol wut?
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kill all these jordan fan boys still living in the past with a hard on for jordan and only jordan.......and the johnny come latelys and young hypebeast buying his shoes who never even seen him play but still say hes the greatest...
darthska
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darthska
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Either you're old and you have a hard-on for him, or you're some young hipster.
Like it's not possible for some old dude to just really remember who Jordan was as a player and feel like he hasn't been eclipsed yet, or for some young dude to really know his stuff and have more of a respect for Jordan as a player than he has anyone else.
Just curious, what would be the jab for anyone who's a Kobe fan?
'Oh, no jab at all. That would just be a person of supremem intelligence, that's all.'
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no kobe is a bum. now lebron on the other hand
darthska
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When the HAAAAYL did you switch allegiance?!
*checks sarcasm meter again*
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I wasn't 'going at' Kobe fans; I was responding to fans of the one I feel like is closer than anyone else. I don't care if LeBron had been mentioned a billion times; I didn't address him being mentioned because in my opinion (and it was my reply), he's MUCH farther away than Kobe is right now. It's laughable to say that LeBron's body of work... RIGHT NOW... is even comparable to Jordan's. It's not even CLOSE in my opinion, so there's no need for me to even waste my time addressing that.
This is exactly how I feel when people say current players who don't have a resume that holds weight to all-time greats are better than them. Bron has played better ball than Kobe the last two years but to say he's leap frogged him and many other all-time greats is laughable.
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My beef with the whole winning MVP every time argument is that is not something that is based on solid fact, peoples emotions are involved when deciding the MVP.
Not even going to argue that. Great point. I love Kobe!
Thanks, and I didn't know you loved Kobe haha.
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Originally Posted by CP1708
I'm not talkin about him bein the best ever or nothin, I just wanna see one of those cool little charts with all the colors is all. Shiny colors amuse me.
His whole career be damn near yellow.
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LeBron is the only player capable of surpassing MJ but that'll probably never happen because MJ set the bar extremely high.
Kobe may end up with 5-6 rings but he was the 2nd option when he won his first 3-rings and had a tremendous amount of help in winning his 4th ring. Unfortunately for Kobe, a couple of his prime years were wasted as the Lakers were rebuilding after trading Shaq...those are 2 seasons no one will really remember because the Lakers were unable to succeed in the playoffs despite Kobe being a monster in those 2 years.
LeBron is still very young, puts up insane numbers, and is an absolutely dominant player. Get him the right supporting cast and he will a title contender for years to come. Just look at the NBA now...Cavs are 1st in the league thanks to LeBron (even though he's surrounded by a bunch of bums and has a terrible head coach, LeBron is able to elevate the team to 60+ wins). The Celtics and Spurs are on the decline and the Magic are pretenders. The only team that looks like they'll be in the title race for atleast another 2 seasons are the L.A. Lakers. So if LeBron plays his cards right in July, he can put himself in a very good situation to win multiple titles and perhaps come close to matching MJ's accomplishments.
Kobe may end up with 5-6 rings but he was the 2nd option when he won his first 3-rings and had a tremendous amount of help in winning his 4th ring. Unfortunately for Kobe, a couple of his prime years were wasted as the Lakers were rebuilding after trading Shaq...those are 2 seasons no one will really remember because the Lakers were unable to succeed in the playoffs despite Kobe being a monster in those 2 years.
LeBron is still very young, puts up insane numbers, and is an absolutely dominant player. Get him the right supporting cast and he will a title contender for years to come. Just look at the NBA now...Cavs are 1st in the league thanks to LeBron (even though he's surrounded by a bunch of bums and has a terrible head coach, LeBron is able to elevate the team to 60+ wins). The Celtics and Spurs are on the decline and the Magic are pretenders. The only team that looks like they'll be in the title race for atleast another 2 seasons are the L.A. Lakers. So if LeBron plays his cards right in July, he can put himself in a very good situation to win multiple titles and perhaps come close to matching MJ's accomplishments.
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I have great respect for Dr. J. But even Julius Erving didn't have the same impact in the league when he first entered. I realize Dr. J played somewhat in a different era than MJ, with endorsement deals, and all that...but I don't think the fans gravitated towards Dr. J as much as they did Michael when he first came in the league.....
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My beef with the whole winning MVP every time argument is that is not something that is based on solid fact, peoples emotions are involved when deciding the MVP.
Not even going to argue that. Great point.
I don't know about that...! If the Bulls still managed to win a Finals, MJ was struggling, and Pippen and company stepped it up to get past a team, could you really say MJ deserved Finals MVP even though he struggled? ....Granted there would always be those die-hard Jordan supporters, but if Pippen per se, happened to lead the Bulls past a team in the Finals...I think it would be very hard for the intelligent fan..perhaps even the Jordan die-hard loyalist, to say Jordan deserved to win another Finals MVP.
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I have great respect for Dr. J. But even Julius Erving didn't have the same impact in the league when he first entered. I realize Dr. J played somewhat in a different era than MJ, with endorsement deals, and all that...but I don't think the fans gravitated towards Dr. J as much as they did Michael when he first came in the league.....
Because Magic and Bird had brought the NBA to the forefront by the time Mike got there.
If Dr J came in in 84, and Mike came in in the mid 70's, everybody would be wearing Air Julius's on this board.
The money from marketing and the untapped market was realized once Larry and Magic made the game more well known. Before them, the NBA finals were on tape delay. Once Lakers/Celtics renewed after their college rivalry, the NBA became must see TV, thus, the marketing opportunities that followed. Mike/Nike capitalized from there.
very good point..I can't argue with that. I do think alot of MJ's success off the court had to do with timing. I do agree with you on Magic and Larry "opening doors" shall we say, for the marketing campaigns in the 80's and onward...
But what I was referring to was the style of play that Jordan exhibited on the court. Dr. J was used as the argument. I used pure will and determination, athleticism, basketball prowess, and creativity to describe the early Michael Jordan that I saw run up and down the courts in the 80's.
With all due respect to Dr. J, I don't feel that Julius overshadowed Jordan in any of those categories, except basketball prowess, from experience, and maybe athleticism....and I say maybe due to the fact that obviously Julius was considered an older player when Jordan first came in the league, but the early Dr. J was a marvel to behold...by the way, I was born in 81', not in the 70's, but I have seen countless Dr. J footage to put him on a pedestal.
I think the creativity Jordan had was unbelievable...along with his hangtime in the air. To me the sight of a reverse layup with 2 or 3 defenders in the air, was more breathtaking to watch at times than a Jordan dunk...and that's what I was referring to on style of play. As time went on, MJ was money on those jumpers..not trying to get too far off track, just explaining my point.
^
Oh no doubt I see your point, but look at the timing of it all.
Nike and Air Jordan was launched WAAAAAAAY before Mike was the assassin we all learned to love. Mike was doing dunks, hang time, tongue out, between the legs 3 times jumper in Bird's face, but he wasn't doin ANYTHING past what Dr J had already done. J had already won a title, slam dunks contests, hang time wrap around reverse layups in the air for seemingly 8 seconds, pffffff, he was filthy.
In the 80's, Jordan was talent, and potential. But Air Jordan was already FULL steam ahead. His marketing was already thru the roof.
In the 90's, THAT's when Jordan became the actual player living up to those expectations. That's when he won games. That's when he 'earned' the nickname money.
So like I said, that marketing campaign was well under way before Mike had ever won a single thing. Dr J had won a title, and had all the raw athleticism/highlight plays Mike had, but he was older, it was the younger newer Mike that came and swept the nation. If Mike doesn't push with that drive, and doesn't work as hard as he did, that campaign is a huge failure. Take for instance Bo Jackson. Nike was all about dude. He was hyped almost as big as MJ. Soon as he got hurt, and couldn't live up to those expectations of greatness, he was gone, just like that. Nike moved onto the next big thing.
Look at Bron now. Dude ain't won @#$% and his marketing is HUGE. What happens if Bron doesn't go on to win like Mike eventually did?
Mike came in perfectly, got the marketing, captured America's attention with his great plays, wow highlights, and then sealed the deal by winning, and kept on winning. He worked harder then anybody to consistently stay atop and not let anyone else knock him down. And for that, his legacy is bigger then maybe his accolades even equate too. As has been said, Kareem can put up similar accomplishments, but no one in America today would claim Kareem to be the greatest of all time. Doesn't that stem directly from the perception we all have of Mike's greatness, which was at first built completely on hype and marketing, and not achievements? *shrugs* Eh, maybe. But I at least thing there is some truth in that.
Oh no doubt I see your point, but look at the timing of it all.
Nike and Air Jordan was launched WAAAAAAAY before Mike was the assassin we all learned to love. Mike was doing dunks, hang time, tongue out, between the legs 3 times jumper in Bird's face, but he wasn't doin ANYTHING past what Dr J had already done. J had already won a title, slam dunks contests, hang time wrap around reverse layups in the air for seemingly 8 seconds, pffffff, he was filthy.
In the 80's, Jordan was talent, and potential. But Air Jordan was already FULL steam ahead. His marketing was already thru the roof.
In the 90's, THAT's when Jordan became the actual player living up to those expectations. That's when he won games. That's when he 'earned' the nickname money.
So like I said, that marketing campaign was well under way before Mike had ever won a single thing. Dr J had won a title, and had all the raw athleticism/highlight plays Mike had, but he was older, it was the younger newer Mike that came and swept the nation. If Mike doesn't push with that drive, and doesn't work as hard as he did, that campaign is a huge failure. Take for instance Bo Jackson. Nike was all about dude. He was hyped almost as big as MJ. Soon as he got hurt, and couldn't live up to those expectations of greatness, he was gone, just like that. Nike moved onto the next big thing.
Look at Bron now. Dude ain't won @#$% and his marketing is HUGE. What happens if Bron doesn't go on to win like Mike eventually did?
Mike came in perfectly, got the marketing, captured America's attention with his great plays, wow highlights, and then sealed the deal by winning, and kept on winning. He worked harder then anybody to consistently stay atop and not let anyone else knock him down. And for that, his legacy is bigger then maybe his accolades even equate too. As has been said, Kareem can put up similar accomplishments, but no one in America today would claim Kareem to be the greatest of all time. Doesn't that stem directly from the perception we all have of Mike's greatness, which was at first built completely on hype and marketing, and not achievements? *shrugs* Eh, maybe. But I at least thing there is some truth in that.
davis
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no one will ever. cause everyone's on his !$$$.
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^For a reason lol.
If this, if that... this would've, that would've. Stop it. Just stick to what actually happened.
If this, if that... this would've, that would've. Stop it. Just stick to what actually happened.
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I believe that aside from Jordan's basketball skill, your shoes also have to set markers and change footwear the way Jordans have.
And I ABSOLUTELY doubt that would EVER happen.
And I ABSOLUTELY doubt that would EVER happen.
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No, just no.
and I think the world of LeBron as a basketball player.
And I do think this stretch of basketball he has put together is as good as just about anything I'v seen....But you do have to win if you want to be compared directly with someone who had won THAT much.
You can recognize LeBron may be on his way...but it actually needs to wind up being accomplished.
and I think the world of LeBron as a basketball player.
And I do think this stretch of basketball he has put together is as good as just about anything I'v seen....But you do have to win if you want to be compared directly with someone who had won THAT much.
You can recognize LeBron may be on his way...but it actually needs to wind up being accomplished.
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Kobe can thank Shaq for that. I'm not knocking Kobe per say but just make sure you tell the entire equation and not just a certain part of it. For those that don't know or seem to have forgotten Kobe played the role of Robin for at least half of his career, Mike played the role of Batman his entire career. Nothing wrong with that of course, everybody cant be Batman, somebody's got to be Robin, which is where Kobe came into play during a good portion of his career.
What about 2006 and 2007 when he took Phoenix to the max with Smush Parker starting at point guard? Smush. Parker.
I guess he can still thank Shaq for that one, right?
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I feel it, them ain't my words, just a response from another board I posed the question on.
I think to a certain extent you use rings in the argument. But Robert Horry ain't a better player than Charles Barkley because Bob got 7 rings.
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Shoes have ZERO to do with it. How old are you?
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