Why don't sportcasters keep it real about Lebron?

[lukethejediknight]

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?

 

[lukethejediknight]

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?

 

[kix4kix]

Lebron is gonna struggle when teams actually start playing defense (playoffs)

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Lebron is gonna struggle when teams actually start playing defense (playoffs)

Huh? 

How do you figure?  

Dude has career averages of 29/8/7  in the playoffs.  I will say this...it's now "put up or shut up" time for him now that he's on the Heat.  No more excuses.  Yeah, he had a terrible supporting cast in Cleveland and tried to carry the whole team and had other stuff going on as well (off the court).  He did all he could.  That's water under the bridge.  He's now put himself in a situation where there is NO option for failure.  Anything less than a title would be an EXTREME disappointment.  Pressure is on...more so than any other team in the league.  This is what you get when you take a FA deal to form a "super team."  He made this bed. 

  

 

[everysingletime]

I think where posters are struggling is that there is fast and there is quick. 

There are players who are quick but not fast.  There are players who are fast but not quick.  Then there are players who are both quick and fast. 

Quick is just being able to explode.

Fast is just coast to coast speed or a top speed after gaining momentum. 

Not enough people can make the distinction. 

I think where Lebron would be most comparable would be Jason Kidd.  Jason Kidd back in the day was lightning fast with the ball end to end.  Just beating people down the court when they're sprinting with him down the court.  In the halfcourt, yea, he was quick cuz he was a pg but not catlike quick like any number of pgs you can think of (Parker, Westbrook, Rose).  But what Lebron has in his favor that Kidd didn't have was the size, power, etc. etc. etc. etc. 

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Lebron is gonna struggle when teams actually start playing defense (playoffs)

Huh? 

How do you figure?  

Dude has career averages of 29/8/7  in the playoffs.  I will say this...it's now "put up or shut up" time for him now that he's on the Heat.  No more excuses.  Yeah, he had a terrible supporting cast in Cleveland and tried to carry the whole team and had other stuff going on as well (off the court).  He did all he could.  That's water under the bridge.  He's now put himself in a situation where there is NO option for failure.  Anything less than a title would be an EXTREME disappointment.  Pressure is on...more so than any other team in the league.  This is what you get when you take a FA deal to form a "super team."  He made this bed. 

  

 

[everysingletime]

I think where posters are struggling is that there is fast and there is quick. 

There are players who are quick but not fast.  There are players who are fast but not quick.  Then there are players who are both quick and fast. 

Quick is just being able to explode.

Fast is just coast to coast speed or a top speed after gaining momentum. 

Not enough people can make the distinction. 

I think where Lebron would be most comparable would be Jason Kidd.  Jason Kidd back in the day was lightning fast with the ball end to end.  Just beating people down the court when they're sprinting with him down the court.  In the halfcourt, yea, he was quick cuz he was a pg but not catlike quick like any number of pgs you can think of (Parker, Westbrook, Rose).  But what Lebron has in his favor that Kidd didn't have was the size, power, etc. etc. etc. etc. 

 

[jmb1523]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by jmb1523

I will never understand why people just disregard stats so easily. 44% shows that he scores in isolation plays pretty effectively.

So we have this long thread about a first step of a 250 lb man, why would you expect his first step to be as good as a 190lb Derrick Rose?

Lol, forget about Drose.

Lebron doesn't even have Melo's first step.  Or Amare's.  Where they cannot match Lebron's speed with the ball is in the open court. 

That poster who posted Grant Hill in his prime a few pages back.  Awesome example.  6"8 with a monster first step back in the day. 

Lebron has about 20-30 pounds on Melo, Stat,  and probably around the same on Grant.   And does Stat blow past SF's from the top of the key?
Im not tryna argue or anything,  Im a engineering student  so i guess im just tryna see things from a completely physical point of view.

 

[jmb1523]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by jmb1523

I will never understand why people just disregard stats so easily. 44% shows that he scores in isolation plays pretty effectively.

So we have this long thread about a first step of a 250 lb man, why would you expect his first step to be as good as a 190lb Derrick Rose?

Lol, forget about Drose.

Lebron doesn't even have Melo's first step.  Or Amare's.  Where they cannot match Lebron's speed with the ball is in the open court. 

That poster who posted Grant Hill in his prime a few pages back.  Awesome example.  6"8 with a monster first step back in the day. 

Lebron has about 20-30 pounds on Melo, Stat,  and probably around the same on Grant.   And does Stat blow past SF's from the top of the key?
Im not tryna argue or anything,  Im a engineering student  so i guess im just tryna see things from a completely physical point of view.

 

[Clyde Frog]

4Shoposite wrote:

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

You're an idiot

 

[Clyde Frog]

4Shoposite wrote:

LeBrons best skill is getting to the basket..

 

You're an idiot

 

[SplinterMatic319]

in the end, absolutely NO ONE can stop bron on the break

 

[SplinterMatic319]

in the end, absolutely NO ONE can stop bron on the break

 

[4shoposite]

LuketheJediKnight wrote:

---

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?




He's not a pure scorer dude! He's just not.

People talk about MJ when we came back to play for Washington like he was sorry. I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron

 The problem with MJ was that he didn't have the legs to give the same amount of effort each and every game...but if you really watch and really pay attention...dude "still had it!"

And even as far as first step...it probably was still in the same atmosphere as Lebron's. He just had such a great mid range jumper that it didn't matter. But look at the clip, and look at the way MJ scored in halfcourt sets (WITHOUT A GREAT FIRST STEP) and compare it to any game footage you can find of Lebron and see the difference in what a pure scorer looks like. Rarely any points in the fast break. Not too many shots taken when the defense isn't set up. 40 Years old bro! Throw out stats...watch the actual game footages and ask yourself offensively in the halfcourt set, "Is Lebron even better than 'Jordan on the Wizzy'?

But wouldnt you rather have a effective scorer? Somebody that can give you points in a effecient manner?

Lebron averages more points per shot than both of those guys, KD is pretty close though.
No. Here's why I say why. I used big men like Charles Barkley and David Robinson for this point. They were hella efficient. The points they gave you were 50% plus from the field. The problem is that when the game gets tight and teams start to buckle down (whether it's by not making crucial mismatching mistakes or actually doubling the star)...they could not be depended on consistently. Though they were great players who were very efficient...you could watch Spurs games or Suns games and realize that you could run a double at them and get the ball out of their hands.

The problem with Lebron is that when teams buckle down and are smart enough to realize his flaw...he struggles to get a basket. He runs pick and rolls and that can easily be doubleteamed and forces him to pass the ball...just like my example above about DRob and Chuck. All I'm asking from you is to watch for what I'm talking about. The playoffs coming up is a perfect time. Though Lebron will get his stats throughout the game...pay attention to the way he gets them and look at the difficulty/dependability of his shots. The way he scores is like a player who should not be a first option.

 

[4shoposite]

LuketheJediKnight wrote:

---

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?




He's not a pure scorer dude! He's just not.

People talk about MJ when we came back to play for Washington like he was sorry. I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron

 The problem with MJ was that he didn't have the legs to give the same amount of effort each and every game...but if you really watch and really pay attention...dude "still had it!"

And even as far as first step...it probably was still in the same atmosphere as Lebron's. He just had such a great mid range jumper that it didn't matter. But look at the clip, and look at the way MJ scored in halfcourt sets (WITHOUT A GREAT FIRST STEP) and compare it to any game footage you can find of Lebron and see the difference in what a pure scorer looks like. Rarely any points in the fast break. Not too many shots taken when the defense isn't set up. 40 Years old bro! Throw out stats...watch the actual game footages and ask yourself offensively in the halfcourt set, "Is Lebron even better than 'Jordan on the Wizzy'?

But wouldnt you rather have a effective scorer? Somebody that can give you points in a effecient manner?

Lebron averages more points per shot than both of those guys, KD is pretty close though.
No. Here's why I say why. I used big men like Charles Barkley and David Robinson for this point. They were hella efficient. The points they gave you were 50% plus from the field. The problem is that when the game gets tight and teams start to buckle down (whether it's by not making crucial mismatching mistakes or actually doubling the star)...they could not be depended on consistently. Though they were great players who were very efficient...you could watch Spurs games or Suns games and realize that you could run a double at them and get the ball out of their hands.

The problem with Lebron is that when teams buckle down and are smart enough to realize his flaw...he struggles to get a basket. He runs pick and rolls and that can easily be doubleteamed and forces him to pass the ball...just like my example above about DRob and Chuck. All I'm asking from you is to watch for what I'm talking about. The playoffs coming up is a perfect time. Though Lebron will get his stats throughout the game...pay attention to the way he gets them and look at the difficulty/dependability of his shots. The way he scores is like a player who should not be a first option.

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by jmb1523

Originally Posted by amel223

Lebron has about 20-30 pounds on Melo, Stat,  and probably around the same on Grant.   And does Stat blow past SF's from the top of the key?
Im not tryna argue or anything,  Im a engineering student  so i guess im just tryna see things from a completely physical point of view.

It's true the extra weight does play a part.  But that's exactly why I'm in this thread.  People are saying he has an elite first step, I'm just tryna dispute that. 

I'm just speaking to the posters who've came in here saying "OP you know NOTHING about basketball he has a world class first step woiejfkdsjle" or "he averages 30 ppg so he just HAS to have a great first step" or "his isolation numbers are awesome adkfljdfl it's impossible to achieve this without some kind of explosive ability"

It BUGS me out.  Dude's flaming OP for him speaking on ONE thing about Lebron that's completely true. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by jmb1523

Originally Posted by amel223

Lebron has about 20-30 pounds on Melo, Stat,  and probably around the same on Grant.   And does Stat blow past SF's from the top of the key?
Im not tryna argue or anything,  Im a engineering student  so i guess im just tryna see things from a completely physical point of view.

It's true the extra weight does play a part.  But that's exactly why I'm in this thread.  People are saying he has an elite first step, I'm just tryna dispute that. 

I'm just speaking to the posters who've came in here saying "OP you know NOTHING about basketball he has a world class first step woiejfkdsjle" or "he averages 30 ppg so he just HAS to have a great first step" or "his isolation numbers are awesome adkfljdfl it's impossible to achieve this without some kind of explosive ability"

It BUGS me out.  Dude's flaming OP for him speaking on ONE thing about Lebron that's completely true. 

 

[jmb1523]

Nobody calls Lebron a pure scorer though, Nobody says the he scores as effortless as KD, and Melo.

But wouldnt you rather have a effective scorer? Somebody that can give you points in a effecient manner?

Lebron averages more points per shot than both of those guys, KD is pretty close though.

 

[jmb1523]

Nobody calls Lebron a pure scorer though, Nobody says the he scores as effortless as KD, and Melo.

But wouldnt you rather have a effective scorer? Somebody that can give you points in a effecient manner?

Lebron averages more points per shot than both of those guys, KD is pretty close though.

 

[lukethejediknight]

"I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron"

...wow.

 

[lukethejediknight]

"I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron"

...wow.

 

[jmb1523]

I think people are flaming the OP because of how he went about it, His arguments have some truth in them, but he makes it seem like bron is some sucky player that shouldnt average 30 a game.

 

[jmb1523]

I think people are flaming the OP because of how he went about it, His arguments have some truth in them, but he makes it seem like bron is some sucky player that shouldnt average 30 a game.

 

[doublejs07]

4Shoposite wrote:

---

LuketheJediKnight wrote:

---

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?




He's not a pure scorer dude! He's just not.

People talk about�MJ when we came back to play for Washington like�he�was sorry. I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron

�The problem with MJ was that he�didn't have the legs to give the same amount of effort each and every game...but if you really watch� and�really pay attention...dude "still had it!"

�And even�as far as first step...it probably was still in the same atmosphere as Lebron's. He just had such a great mid range jumper that it didn't matter. But look at the clip, and look at the way MJ scored in halfcourt sets (WITHOUT A GREAT FIRST STEP) and compare it to�any�game footage you can find of Lebron and see the difference in what a pure scorer looks like. Rarely any�points in the fast break. Not too many shots taken when the defense isn't set up.��40 Years old bro! Throw out stats...watch the actual game footages and ask yourself offensively in the halfcourt set, "Is Lebron even�better than 'Jordan on the Wizzy'?

��

And that's a bald-faced lie.� Michael Jordan had a basketball IQ that was >�than 99.5% of the NBA at that time.��He could out-smart�the opposition with ease.��I went to many of his games during his tenure in DC and left amazed each and every time because he wasn't getting buckets based solely off of his athleticism.� Mike WAS NOT a�"pure scorer" at 38/39 years old.� He had to rely on�craftiness and guile�to do what he had to do.��Lebron�is a VERY smart player.� He'll still be extremely effective as he gets older and his athleticism diminishes to an extent.� The�"smarter" players are the ones who can still do amazing things in the twilights of their careers because of their b-ball IQ.� Look at guys like�Nash and Kobe.� Two different players, but still damn effective as their careers are coming to a�close.��
��

 

[doublejs07]

4Shoposite wrote:

---

LuketheJediKnight wrote:

---

"Do I ignore stats, not totally...but I've said it time and time again, sometimes stats can lie."

The thing is, even if this is the case (and by the way, its often not) you don't even bother to attack the evidence at all. You say that Bron isn't a pure scorer and can't score in isolation, someone puts up ISOLATION STATS to show that what you're saying is false, then you just run away from it - all while parroting the tired cliche that "stats don't matter"

Do you think you're truly being objective when you do that?




He's not a pure scorer dude! He's just not.

People talk about�MJ when we came back to play for Washington like�he�was sorry. I'll say it right now: MJ at the age of 40+ still had a MUCH BETTER offensive game than Lebron

�The problem with MJ was that he�didn't have the legs to give the same amount of effort each and every game...but if you really watch� and�really pay attention...dude "still had it!"

�And even�as far as first step...it probably was still in the same atmosphere as Lebron's. He just had such a great mid range jumper that it didn't matter. But look at the clip, and look at the way MJ scored in halfcourt sets (WITHOUT A GREAT FIRST STEP) and compare it to�any�game footage you can find of Lebron and see the difference in what a pure scorer looks like. Rarely any�points in the fast break. Not too many shots taken when the defense isn't set up.��40 Years old bro! Throw out stats...watch the actual game footages and ask yourself offensively in the halfcourt set, "Is Lebron even�better than 'Jordan on the Wizzy'?

��

And that's a bald-faced lie.� Michael Jordan had a basketball IQ that was >�than 99.5% of the NBA at that time.��He could out-smart�the opposition with ease.��I went to many of his games during his tenure in DC and left amazed each and every time because he wasn't getting buckets based solely off of his athleticism.� Mike WAS NOT a�"pure scorer" at 38/39 years old.� He had to rely on�craftiness and guile�to do what he had to do.��Lebron�is a VERY smart player.� He'll still be extremely effective as he gets older and his athleticism diminishes to an extent.� The�"smarter" players are the ones who can still do amazing things in the twilights of their careers because of their b-ball IQ.� Look at guys like�Nash and Kobe.� Two different players, but still damn effective as their careers are coming to a�close.��
��