why is it ok to put 'NIKE AIR' on the back of bootleggish AFJordans?

[stickinkicks]

cause this jordan/air force fusion crap is a air force w/jordan characteristics, not a jordan shoe.

 

[inchecksince81]

Originally Posted by Supermanblue79


This is what G told me yesterday when I asked him if Nike Air would be put on Jordan Retros

Never say never but as long as I'm around, I don't plan on it. Want to reward
the early collectors for being smart enough to collect, way back in the day!

Hope that's clear enough for you.



He also forgot to tell you ''also because I am a tool.''
Now that would have cleared everything up.

 

[inchecksince81]

nike air should be on the back of jordans that had it.
now what gentry is gonna tell us the iv's look like banana boats because of respect for og collectors?
JB does what they want. PERIOD.

 

[kidlebron23]

because mabe they are air force ones mixed with Jordan 5's air force ones comes with nike air on the bac of dem if u didn't notice

 

[instyleshoes]

I agree with 3thaman : For the life of me I still don't get this. So how were they taking care of collectors in 94-95,99-01? Did they not put outretro's with Nike Air then?
If back in 94 when the III's came out and they had a jumpman and they said this is the way it's going to be because we're taking care of thecollectors I guess I can understand it. But that dog don't hunt now, you did it up to 7 years ago, so what collectors are you talking about.

I also think the financial as well as copyright aspect has a role here. Do you think JB is happy that NIKE is releasing the fusions and look alike AF1'sthat resemble J's only in colorscheme? Does the money go to Nike and not JB? Just like I'm sure Nike is frustrated that the most successfull businessthey've ever had is now a separate entity altogether. When JB releases a retro or original Nike designed Air Jordan shoe (I-XII) do they have to pay Nikeroyalties? I've always wondered if this is why the retroes are not made with OG molds and re-created under JB minus the Nike Air logo as a way to avoidprofit sharing with Nike.....just a thought / curiosity....to sum up....I think JB is avoiding having to pay for something when they can slightly change it andbe more profitable. Some of JB's decisions would make sense if this is the case....sorry for rambling.... but : JM / Meth / Heat / or anyone have aresponse to this idea?

 

[championhood]

that royalty excuse is da biggest croc of hot garbage i've ever heard....at da end of da day jordans still use NIKE AIR technology.

even da 23's use nike's new considered production methods.....when gentry said that collector crap in harlem i was so mad i walked straight out....

 

[kings castle]

i THINK they put the nike air on the back because thats one of the AF part of the AFJ fusion
makes sense id say

 

[blackcat23mj]

bc they are afraid the hypebeasts will get confused if they put nike air on jays and call them nikes instead of air jordans thus not giving jordan brand therecognition it deserves. haha just like size 15 please said...common sense and marketing

 

[410fresh]

WHY DO PPL CRY BOUT THIS, THE JUMPMAN LOOKS WAY BETTER!!!!

 

[Methodical Management]

Never say never but as long as I'm around, I don't plan on it. Want to reward
the early collectors for being smart enough to collect, way back in the day!
This is the all time biggest load in the history of sneakers.

Go look up with this clown told Slam magazine about a retro II back when the company was still in "brand building" mode. He said they'd neverretro the II while he was around since it wouldn't be 100% accurate. (the original IIs were made in Italy.) Read the comments Erin Patton made regardingthe brand's commitment to quality. It's a complete 180.

I've come across a lot of collectors over the years. I can't think of ONE - not ONE - who actually prefers inaccurate retros just to preserve thevalue of their originals. Why? If you actually LIKE those shoes, wouldn't you want an accurate pair to WEAR? The market for original Air Jordans III-VIis so small... only the most hardcore collectors are really going to pay $800+ for half-decayed shoes they can never wear and, of those willing to pay thoseprices, do you REALLY think those collectors would RATHER have a '99 Air Jordan IV retro over the originals? Don't be stupid. Collectors KNOW. Evenif the only difference is the tag, they KNOW. The cachet of having one of the ORIGINALS is enough.

So, the tired excuse of "protecting collectors" is 100% spin on their part. Anyone who falls for that line is a sucker, period. The guy's aproven hypocrite on the issues of product accuracy and quality, and it's right there in print if anyone has the time or interest to look up the interviews.


They should thank their lucky stars counterfeiters are, so far, too stupid to put Nike Air on the back of Jordan III-VI fakes. How hilarious would it be forcounterfeiters to produce more accurate replicas than Jordan Brand?

They get let off the hook because all these 90's babies who never saw MJ play in his prime are only into Jordans because everyone else is. They don'tcare about Nike Air vs. Jumpman, because they never owned the originals, they really don't even care that it's Michael Jordan and not Kobe Bryant,because they only saw MJ play as a Wizard... they just care if it's still the "in" thing to wear. I don't expect a 15 year old tounderstand why Nike Air matters. You weren't even born when the V first came out, so you couldn't care less that it was my first pair of Air Jordansand I have fond memories of that shoe. For you, the fake-looking replica is "good enough." For me, it's not the same shoe.


The royalty "theory" makes an awful lot of sense to me. Anyone who's caught a glimpse of Nike's internal operations knows that theirteams/divisions are very competitive - to the point of counterproductivity and utter stupidity. It's not just that the left hand doesn't know what theright hand is doing, the left and right hands squabble like spoiled children. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Jordan had to pay some sort ofinternal royalty to use the swoosh. Just look at Nike basketball vs. Jordan, they're hurting and embarrassed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, as part of whatever deal produced the Jordan/Af1 monstrosity, Nike decided to trot out their cheap lowtop versions likethe black/red fusion knockoff to get a little boost out of it for themselves - and it'd certainly explain why Jordan brand isn't putting ANY Nike logosan the fusion lows. They bit the bullet and put Nike Air on the mids, but they're cutting corners and going cheap on the lower priced lows this summer. Are they saving money on royalties? I don't know for certain, but I think that's certainly a strong possibility.

Look, there's obviously a reason why there isn't ONE consistent push for the Jordan fusions. You have Jordan X Nike on the mids, Nike going it aloneon their cheap lows, Jordan going it alone on THEIR cheap lows. That's no accident, it's a product of their moronic corporate structure that producespetty sibling rivalry. How much more efficient would the company be if they functioned in concert and behaved COHERENTLY? We'll probably never find out,because all these pitiful middle-managers base their lives and livelihoods around competing with other divisions of the same parent company. It's like anNBA roster full of overpaid "stars" in their contract years, just playing for stats and individual glory. It didn't work for the Clippers. Itdidn't work for the Knicks.

 

[kingjay718]

Originally Posted by AddictedToFreshKicks

who cares....it really isn't a big deal.....people whine way too much about this

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by Method Man

Never say never but as long as I'm around, I don't plan on it. Want to reward
the early collectors for being smart enough to collect, way back in the day!

This is the all time biggest load in the history of sneakers.

Go look up with this clown told Slam magazine about a retro II back when the company was still in "brand building" mode. He said they'd never retro the II while he was around since it wouldn't be 100% accurate. (the original IIs were made in Italy.) Read the comments Erin Patton made regarding the brand's commitment to quality. It's a complete 180.

I've come across a lot of collectors over the years. I can't think of ONE - not ONE - who actually prefers inaccurate retros just to preserve the value of their originals. Why? If you actually LIKE those shoes, wouldn't you want an accurate pair to WEAR? The market for original Air Jordans III-VI is so small... only the most hardcore collectors are really going to pay $800+ for half-decayed shoes they can never wear and, of those willing to pay those prices, do you REALLY think those collectors would RATHER have a '99 Air Jordan IV retro over the originals? Don't be stupid. Collectors KNOW. Even if the only difference is the tag, they KNOW. The cachet of having one of the ORIGINALS is enough.

So, the tired excuse of "protecting collectors" is 100% spin on their part. Anyone who falls for that line is a sucker, period. The guy's a proven hypocrite on the issues of product accuracy and quality, and it's right there in print if anyone has the time or interest to look up the interviews.


They should thank their lucky stars counterfeiters are, so far, too stupid to put Nike Air on the back of Jordan III-VI fakes. How hilarious would it be for counterfeiters to produce more accurate replicas than Jordan Brand?

They get let off the hook because all these 90's babies who never saw MJ play in his prime are only into Jordans because everyone else is. They don't care about Nike Air vs. Jumpman, because they never owned the originals, they really don't even care that it's Michael Jordan and not Kobe Bryant, because they only saw MJ play as a Wizard... they just care if it's still the "in" thing to wear. I don't expect a 15 year old to understand why Nike Air matters. You weren't even born when the V first came out, so you couldn't care less that it was my first pair of Air Jordans and I have fond memories of that shoe. For you, the fake-looking replica is "good enough." For me, it's not the same shoe.


The royalty "theory" makes an awful lot of sense to me. Anyone who's caught a glimpse of Nike's internal operations knows that their teams/divisions are very competitive - to the point of counterproductivity and utter stupidity. It's not just that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, the left and right hands squabble like spoiled children. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Jordan had to pay some sort of internal royalty to use the swoosh. Just look at Nike basketball vs. Jordan, they're hurting and embarrassed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, as part of whatever deal produced the Jordan/Af1 monstrosity, Nike decided to trot out their cheap lowtop versions like the black/red fusion knockoff to get a little boost out of it for themselves - and it'd certainly explain why Jordan brand isn't putting ANY Nike logos an the fusion lows. They bit the bullet and put Nike Air on the mids, but they're cutting corners and going cheap on the lower priced lows this summer. Are they saving money on royalties? I don't know for certain, but I think that's certainly a strong possibility.

Look, there's obviously a reason why there isn't ONE consistent push for the Jordan fusions. You have Jordan X Nike on the mids, Nike going it alone on their cheap lows, Jordan going it alone on THEIR cheap lows. That's no accident, it's a product of their moronic corporate structure that produces petty sibling rivalry. How much more efficient would the company be if they functioned in concert and behaved COHERENTLY? We'll probably never find out, because all these pitiful middle-managers base their lives and livelihoods around competing with other divisions of the same parent company. It's like an NBA roster full of overpaid "stars" in their contract years, just playing for stats and individual glory. It didn't work for the Clippers. It didn't work for the Knicks.

**edit**

I honestly think Gentry is sitting on about 150 pairs of 94's and 99-01 retro's to just SELL THEM for an enormous price once his job is done. I mean150 pairs of each the III, the IV, the V and I's in each retro'd colorway. = $$$$$$$$$$

 

[jay zoe2]

Originally Posted by Method Man

Never say never but as long as I'm around, I don't plan on it. Want to reward
the early collectors for being smart enough to collect, way back in the day!

This is the all time biggest load in the history of sneakers.

Go look up with this clown told Slam magazine about a retro II back when the company was still in "brand building" mode. He said they'd never retro the II while he was around since it wouldn't be 100% accurate. (the original IIs were made in Italy.) Read the comments Erin Patton made regarding the brand's commitment to quality. It's a complete 180.

I've come across a lot of collectors over the years. I can't think of ONE - not ONE - who actually prefers inaccurate retros just to preserve the value of their originals. Why? If you actually LIKE those shoes, wouldn't you want an accurate pair to WEAR? The market for original Air Jordans III-VI is so small... only the most hardcore collectors are really going to pay $800+ for half-decayed shoes they can never wear and, of those willing to pay those prices, do you REALLY think those collectors would RATHER have a '99 Air Jordan IV retro over the originals? Don't be stupid. Collectors KNOW. Even if the only difference is the tag, they KNOW. The cachet of having one of the ORIGINALS is enough.

So, the tired excuse of "protecting collectors" is 100% spin on their part. Anyone who falls for that line is a sucker, period. The guy's a proven hypocrite on the issues of product accuracy and quality, and it's right there in print if anyone has the time or interest to look up the interviews.


They should thank their lucky stars counterfeiters are, so far, too stupid to put Nike Air on the back of Jordan III-VI fakes. How hilarious would it be for counterfeiters to produce more accurate replicas than Jordan Brand?

They get let off the hook because all these 90's babies who never saw MJ play in his prime are only into Jordans because everyone else is. They don't care about Nike Air vs. Jumpman, because they never owned the originals, they really don't even care that it's Michael Jordan and not Kobe Bryant, because they only saw MJ play as a Wizard... they just care if it's still the "in" thing to wear. I don't expect a 15 year old to understand why Nike Air matters. You weren't even born when the V first came out, so you couldn't care less that it was my first pair of Air Jordans and I have fond memories of that shoe. For you, the fake-looking replica is "good enough." For me, it's not the same shoe.


The royalty "theory" makes an awful lot of sense to me. Anyone who's caught a glimpse of Nike's internal operations knows that their teams/divisions are very competitive - to the point of counterproductivity and utter stupidity. It's not just that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, the left and right hands squabble like spoiled children. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Jordan had to pay some sort of internal royalty to use the swoosh. Just look at Nike basketball vs. Jordan, they're hurting and embarrassed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, as part of whatever deal produced the Jordan/Af1 monstrosity, Nike decided to trot out their cheap lowtop versions like the black/red fusion knockoff to get a little boost out of it for themselves - and it'd certainly explain why Jordan brand isn't putting ANY Nike logos an the fusion lows. They bit the bullet and put Nike Air on the mids, but they're cutting corners and going cheap on the lower priced lows this summer. Are they saving money on royalties? I don't know for certain, but I think that's certainly a strong possibility.

Look, there's obviously a reason why there isn't ONE consistent push for the Jordan fusions. You have Jordan X Nike on the mids, Nike going it alone on their cheap lows, Jordan going it alone on THEIR cheap lows. That's no accident, it's a product of their moronic corporate structure that produces petty sibling rivalry. How much more efficient would the company be if they functioned in concert and behaved COHERENTLY? We'll probably never find out, because all these pitiful middle-managers base their lives and livelihoods around competing with other divisions of the same parent company. It's like an NBA roster full of overpaid "stars" in their contract years, just playing for stats and individual glory. It didn't work for the Clippers. It didn't work for the Knicks.




Meth great post, but unfortunately, the kiddies on NT aren't ready for that truth. These kids kill me sometimes. In their eye they are Jordan experts,yet most of them can't even remember watching a live Bulls game will Jordan was still was still playing.

This new age of shoeheads just buy whatever Gentry/JB feeds them. If someone knew they could get the buns with just a Bic Mac meal, why would they take youout to a nice restaurant? The current shoe culture is full of cheap dates that are happy to give it up (spend money on crap) just because thier date (JB)pretends like he cares.

 

[drips510]

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Method Man wrote:

**edit**

I honestly think Gentry is sitting on about 150 pairs of 94's and 99-01 retro's to just SELL THEM for an enormous price once his job is done. I mean 150 pairs of each the III, the IV, the V and I's in each retro'd colorway. = $$$$$$$$$$

Hahaahhahahaha So true

 

[dirtyxcanto]

For you younger cats that don't understand the importance of Nike Air, lets say 10 years from now the Kobe's shoe line becomes its own brand theydecide to retro the azkIIIs without the nike swoosh in the back. instead, its the kobe's ninja symbol. being both a mike and kobe fan all my life, having akobe III retro without the swoosh on the back wouldn't feel the same and authentic just like not having the nike air on the back of a retro aj III wouldntfeel as same or authentic. hope this clears it up for some people

 

[trethousandgt]

Meth very well said, alot of the younger collectors say "Nike Air" on the back of the shoe doesn't matter to them, but most of them weren'teven old enough to remember the original and on a side note they don't remember when we started to see fakes they looked exactly like the crap Jordan Brandis releasing now with the crappy fit, jumpman logo on the back, and horrible leather. In 99-2000 the retro's that had the jumpman logo on the back SAT ONTHE SHELVES, the laney's, the white silver v's, the white navy VI's, black grey IV's (not the black red grey iv's) and the white navyIV's, those things were marked down many many times, in 2001 they got us to deal with it for the true blues, but it was an all around solid and goodquality retro, but I have to admit, I wasn't going to purchase them, I remember telling a friend of mine they ruined the shoe with that garbage jumpman onthe back, and had they left nike air on the back of the shoe, most likely I would have kept them but its just not the same.

 

[elgallo23]

I think the only people that truly care about Nike Air on Jordan's are guys that bought them when they first came out. And that's the problem withanybody that has been an enthusiast for years in any hobby, you get to the point where you just say "they don't make em' like they used to."But of course we're talking about shoes here and the top guys at Jordan Brand, especially Gentry do have the power to make them exactly how they were made18 plus years ago. I have always been bothered with Gentry's belief that he's rewarding the OG collectors by changing the Nike Air into a Jumpman, whenreally it all comes down to money. I'm more prone to believe the royalty theory because of that, and any chance to avoid losing money Gentry will take it.His job isn't to please the consumer, but to get as much money as he can from them. That means that he will cut corners by using cheaper materials onshoes, avoid paying royalties, come up with outrageous gimmicks and will +$#$+ a sig shoe as much as possible. At least that's what the Jumpman logo hascome to mean to me, a +$#$+. You put the logo on any mediocre apparel and the sheep will buy it (it's how Gemo Wong keeps his job). Not to say what theyare currently producing is crap, but that it's not as amazing as it used to be. It's not at the forefront of creating a style that others would follow.That excitement of just even owning one pair of Air Jordan's isn't there anymore, and after Michael Jordan retired the brand had to find a way to keepmaking money by expanding the brand. Of course I'm not opposed to them making money, but I'm opposed to them trying and successfully making it a brandas diverse with products as Nike, Adidas, and Puma. And when you grow to that size, quantities of sells matter more than the quality of what you're sellingand the excitement dies. So in a way the growth of the brand will always have a negative effect on the OG collector/buyer because the Brand can please a muchlarger population (younger guys), because the Brand can get away with selling them a poorly made product which they will buy in multiples and in differentcolors. Since the only Jordan's that had Nike Air prominently displayed are I-VI were the ones that OG buyers first bought, they're the ones that willwant the retro to look exactly the same as the original. But at alas there are too few OG collectors to make Gentry change his mind, or at least to make theventure profitable. In the end not having Nike Air on the back of Jordan's just displays the fact that Jordan Brand will cut corners in order to make aprofit.

 

[damnneardeadstock]

its this easy:

gentry wants to differentiate JB from nike altogether. he wants to make sure when people see jordans, all the see is a BRAND. i hate to say it but morejumpmans = more $$$.

the air force fusion garbage is supposed to $$+!% out the air force line AND the jordan signature line, which are the most popular shoe series on the shelves.$$$ = $$$$$$ if people know they're buyin an air force 1 AND a jordan sneaker.

 

[poofyo101]

well put meth

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by damnneardeadstock

its this easy:

gentry wants to differentiate JB from nike altogether. he wants to make sure when people see jordans, all the see is a BRAND. i hate to say it but more jumpmans = more $$$.

the air force fusion garbage is supposed to $$+!% out the air force line AND the jordan signature line, which are the most popular shoe series on the shelves. $$$ = $$$$$$ if people know they're buyin an air force 1 AND a jordan sneaker.

damnearcontradicting.

Anyways; like i said...Gentry is sitting on about 200 pairs of 94's and 99-01 Retro's just sell in 5 years. He's got 200 pairs of each releasedcolorway in the I's, III's, IV's, V's, VI's, XI's.

 

[el bro]

Originally Posted by Size 15 Please

im getting tired of people talkin bout this...UMM...the retros we rock today allllllllll belong to Jordan Brand...itz mikes company..so why wouldnt he market his logo on the back...itz not Nike Air anymore..u all kno that!....now with the Fusions ..last time i checked it was a combo of Jordan/Air Force 1..which is why u have a Jumpman logo PLUS a Nike Air logo.......come on yall stop askin that question when itz common sense.....

Ok, so if thats the case, stop using the air units in all the shoes JB produces.

 

[jcool813]

They are Air Forces. why does everyone cry about this?

 

[jwalker123]

 

[burns1923]

They get let off the hook because all these 90's babies who never saw MJ play in his prime are only into Jordans because everyone else is. They don't care about Nike Air vs. Jumpman, because they never owned the originals

And because of this, JB can hide behind the target market idea to continue to make inaccurate retros and gaudy merchandise.

They are actually exploiting this new generation's age (read: growing up in the post golden era) and that generation's arguably poor sense of"style". Among other things, JB is shrewd in that regard. Present products in a variation that can best sell across the board of potentialconsumers.

JB essentially has 2 objectives with any given retro:

Make a retro that "looks" like a coveted original so A.) the younger, often negligent but steady profit resource crowds will buy it because it'ssupposed to be a "classic" or "hot" and B.) bank on the older generation who grew up with the shoes pulling the trigger anyway when facedwith the decision of either buying the shoe because it may be the best/only shot at wearing their childhood shoe OR passing altogether and being left out. Ifthe older people resist buying, the youngers will snap up any available pairs anyway, almost impulsively.

Because the younger, no-questions-asked crowd has no "original" they can point to for reference or for emotional attachment, JB can justify puttingout the garbage. Who cares about the 26+ year olds when you have an increasingly desensitized consumer base who actually look to JB to tell them what's"cool" by putting out wacky weed products. Why offer filet mignon when Slim Jims sell out?

Nike Air? To JB, the majority of their buyers "don't care" about it. They know they can sell for instance the Black/Cement III dozens of timeswithout Nike Air. Really, JB's business plan = milking a product's appeal. The end game? A handful of people get rich.

Wow, quite meaningful, enriching work there, JB.

 

[sixfoot nathan]

my main man, G..
what's percolating big homie?!
the designs are looking F-R-E-S-H