why is it such a sin to say anyone will be better than Michael Jordan?

[trynafeelmink]

He Scores Better, Distributes Better, Gets to the basket & Finishes around the basket better, Better Outside Shooter, Better Free Throw shooter, A WAY better clutch player............ Basically anything outside of being a better Defender in which Wade Has and can guard 1-3 spots Effectively.

Not to mention he did all this in MIAMI prior to having Lebron and was considered Top 5 in the league up until about this year. Only on this website can i see someone call Kobe overated, yet say Pippen isnt just better but CLEARLY better than d-Wade.

Where is the proof don't give me the hypothetical "IF" scottie had his own team ********.

He's Trailing by far in every statistical Category, had the UNDISPUTED best player ever on his team his entire Prime.... Left the bulls and never averaged over 14, 6, & 6..... i know many of ya'll grew up bulls fans and wanna preserve that Era, It works for Mike but you have no basis to stand on this topic NONE.

Oh and lets just put this out here while we're at it Scottie had a team of his own when Mike Retired, he averaged 22, 8, & 6 on 48% 30% from 3 & 66% from the line and made the ECF with a team that was still VERY talented. his best season doesn't surpass one of Wade's weaker seasons

 

[beardedkevin]

Pip has to be the most underrated player in NBA history.

 

[jsindaa]

He Scores, Distributes, Finishes around the basket better, Better Outside Shooter, A WAY better clutch player............ Basically anything outside of being a better Defender in which Wade Has and can guard 1-3 spots Effectively.

Not to mention he did all this in MIAMI prior to having Lebron and was considered Top 5 in the league up until about this year. Only on this website can i see someone call Kobe overated, yet say Pippen isnt just better but CLEARLY better than d-Wade.

Where is the proof don't give me the hypothetical "IF" scottie had his own team ********.

He's Trailing by far in every statistical Category, had the UNDISPUTED best player ever on his team his entire Prime.... Left the bulls and never averaged over 14, 6, & 6..... i know many of ya'll grew up bulls fans and wanna preserve that Era, It works for Mike but you have no basis to stand on this topic NONE.

-_- lets see Wade is a better outside shooter yet he's worse for his career and has NEVER shot over 31% from 3 while Pip shot over 34% 5 times and better than Wade's career best year all but 7 years...which is over half his career. Oh. He averaged almost 3 steals and a block. He got 20 ppg while being second fiddle to someone who shot....a lot. He's a far better rebounder. I don't agree that Wade is a distributor either.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Oh and lets just put this out here while we're at it Scottie had a team of his own when Mike Retired, he averaged 22, 8, & 6 on 48% 30% from 3 & 66% from the line and made the ECF with a team that was still VERY talented.

PG: BJ Armstrong / Steve Kerr
SG: Pete Meyers
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant / Tony Kukoc
C: Bill Cartwright / Luc Longley

Very... talented...

 

[mmg]

Pip has to be the most underrated player in NBA history.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Outside Shooting isn't relegated to simply Three point attempts,

Scottie averaged exactly 2.0 stls & 1.0 blk
Wade Averages 1.8 stls & 1.0 blks despite being 6'4 compared to scottie 6'8.
It's his worst season since joining with lebron & he's putting up 21, 5, & 5 while playing with someone who shoots... a lot...
Scottie averages 6 Boards for a career, Wade averages 5, and since you want to involve teammates, He was on a squad that contained shaq, Zo Morning, & UD & now Lebron & Bosh.
Considering he averages more assist for his career & also carried a team his first 8 years in the League and led them to success Your OPINION is trumped by facts that wade is a better distributor

 

[itshlittt]

the refs lead the heat to that chip bro stop it five

 

[airjordan jb23]

It can defintely hit a nerve for a lot of the older heads... But not only that because the main thing is comparing careers & accomplishments & no player today has had his career matchup or surpass what Jordan did.

 

[jsindaa]

Outside Shooting isn't relegated to simply Three point attempts,

Scottie averaged exactly 2.0 stls & 1.0 blk
Wade Averages 1.8 stls & 1.0 blks despite being 6'4 compared to scottie 6'8.
It's his worst season since joining with lebron & he's putting up 21, 5, & 5 while playing with someone who shoots... a lot...
Scottie averages 6 Boards for a career, Wade averages 5, and since you want to involve teammates, He was on a squad that contained shaq, Zo Morning, & UD & now Lebron & Bosh.
Considering he averages more assist for his career & also carried a team his first 8 years in the League and led them to success Your OPINION is trumped by facts that wade is a better distributor

No it isnt....its just a great place to start. Scottie averaged 2 steals for his career, last I checked we were talking about his tenure in Chicago. I didn't know Bron, who shoots the same amount of times as wade, shot a lot. Amazing. And he's nowhere near the shot attempts Jordan put up. And my opinion that Wade isn't a better distributor is simple...passing out of double teams doesn't necessarily make you a great distributor.

 

[david bowman]

Pip has to be the most underrated player in NBA history.

In what way? Top 50 player ever is great company to be in

I don't see how saying wade is better is any type of trolling statement. Just because we've seen wade win a championship. Even of it is tainted.

Pippen is no slouch though. One of the best defenders ever.


Kukoc is underrated. Kerr has become overrated.

 

[va757va]

Pip has to be the most underrated player in NBA history.

exactly!!!

dwade aint close to pippen..lol..nobody who saw pip play will say that...

 

[nycknicks105]

here we go!!!!! lol if this doesnt get locked this might rival the kobe overrated thread.

Even though nobody will ever be better than MJ due to the heart and hunger, I think dude is ginuinely jealous or possibly irked by Lebron James and people saying he just might be better than MJ..

No way in hell if Im MJ I take Kobe Over lebron lol

Up until now with both of their collective bodies of work? You have to take Kobe.

And if you go by the past 10 years, it's still Kobe

If there's one common denominator between Kobe and MJ, it's that both of those guys are straight up killers. They don't play that whole "being your friend" **** with other players and has the smiles and giggles after a loss.

Lebron isn't a killer and won't go into a game and rip your heart out like MJ and Kobe set out to do.

I'd take Kobe in his prime over Lebron any day. Kobe's game in his prime is so fine-tuned and "complete". Closets to Jordan we'll ever see, really.

BTW, I'm old enough to watch BOTH MJ and Kobe in their primes. I've seen them do their damage and work in the league. Lebron isn't even CLOSE to these two guys. I think people are getting caught up in the moment with lebron for now.

Let me be clear though--I'm NOT saying what Lebron is doing now worth any recognition, because honestly I've never seen anything like this before. But to say he's better than MJ or will be is nuts

Like I said earlier though, he has the potential to be better. More so than Kobe ever had.

I'm probably older than you and I totally disagree.

As great as Kobe was/is I never felt a sense of dread like I did when Jordan was is in his prime.

There has never been a point in Kobe's career where I felt he was unbeatable except when he played with Shaq. Even he went back to back.

During Jordan's prime I knew nobody was beating them dudes, I have the same feeling about Lebron now.

I just feel that barring injury Lebron has the league on lock for at least the next 3 years.

I gotta disagree with you there, buddy.

If Lebron was on the heat without Wade and Bosh, no one would be so afraid of the Heat. Lebron still seems beatable. There isn't the same fear in lebron as you'd see in MJ.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

here we go!!!!! lol if this doesnt get locked this might rival the kobe overrated thread.

Even though nobody will ever be better than MJ due to the heart and hunger, I think dude is ginuinely jealous or possibly irked by Lebron James and people saying he just might be better than MJ..

No way in hell if Im MJ I take Kobe Over lebron lol

How can you make such a statement though?

At what point in basketball history hasn't there been someone to come along and surpass the previous "best ever."

So why do you all honestly believe it will end here with Jordan?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

If Lebron was on the heat without Wade and Bosh, no one would be so afraid of the Heat. Lebron still seems beatable. There isn't the same fear in lebron as you'd see in MJ.

Here we go. There is no team with ONE superstar that doesn't seem unbeatable.

Jordan in the late 80s was VERY beatable. Jordan with Pippen and Phil became a dynasty. Not Jordan by himself.

Please stop acting like Jordan did everything by himself man.

 

[solarius49]

all 3 of Jordans "streaks" >> Lebrons current one. I'm so tired of hearing about it

and I'm not including the 3peats because those are team efforts, but obviously he deserves credit for those

 

[Sonny Corinthos]

MJ would've had at least one more ring if he didn't play baseball

 

[DCAllAfrican]

MJ would've had at least one more ring if he didn't play baseball

Means nothing. It is an unprovable hypothetical statement.

 

[solarius49]

I dont think any of these are hypothetical

Season    Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP   FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%   FT  FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1984-85    21 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 38.3 10.2 19.8 .515 0.1 0.6 .173  7.7  9.1 .845 2.0 4.5 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 3.5 3.5 28.2
1985-86    22 CHI NBA  SG   18    7 25.1  8.3 18.2 .457 0.2 1.0 .167  5.8  6.9 .840 1.3 2.3 3.6 2.9 2.1 1.2 2.5 2.6 22.7
1986-87    23 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 40.0 13.4 27.8 .482 0.1 0.8 .182 10.2 11.9 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 3.3 2.9 37.1
1987-88    24 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 40.4 13.0 24.4 .535 0.1 0.6 .132  8.8 10.5 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 35.0
1988-89    25 CHI NBA  SG   81   81 40.2 11.9 22.2 .538 0.3 1.2 .276  8.3  9.8 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 3.0 32.5
1989-90    26 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 39.0 12.6 24.0 .526 1.1 3.0 .376  7.2  8.5 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.8 0.7 3.0 2.9 33.6
1990-91    27 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 37.0 12.1 22.4 .539 0.4 1.1 .312  7.0  8.2 .851 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 2.7 1.0 2.5 2.8 31.5
1991-92    28 CHI NBA  SG   80   80 38.8 11.8 22.7 .519 0.3 1.3 .270  6.1  7.4 .832 1.1 5.3 6.4 6.1 2.3 0.9 2.5 2.5 30.1
1992-93    29 CHI NBA  SG   78   78 39.3 12.7 25.7 .495 1.0 2.9 .352  6.1  7.3 .837 1.7 5.0 6.7 5.5 2.8 0.8 2.7 2.4 32.6
1994-95    31 CHI NBA  SG   17   17 39.3  9.8 23.8 .411 0.9 1.9 .500  6.4  8.0 .801 1.5 5.4 6.9 5.3 1.8 0.8 2.1 2.8 26.9
1995-96    32 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 37.7 11.2 22.6 .495 1.4 3.2 .427  6.7  8.0 .834 1.8 4.8 6.6 4.3 2.2 0.5 2.4 2.4 30.4
1996-97    33 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 37.9 11.2 23.1 .486 1.4 3.6 .374  5.9  7.0 .833 1.4 4.5 5.9 4.3 1.7 0.5 2.0 1.9 29.6
1997-98    34 CHI NBA  SG   82   82 38.8 10.7 23.1 .465 0.4 1.5 .238  6.9  8.8 .784 1.6 4.2 5.8 3.5 1.7 0.5 2.3 1.8 28.7
2001-02    38 WAS NBA  SF   60   53 34.9  9.2 22.1 .416 0.2 0.9 .189  4.4  5.6 .790 0.8 4.8 5.7 5.2 1.4 0.4 2.7 2.0 22.9
2002-03    39 WAS NBA  SF   82   67 37.0  8.3 18.6 .445 0.2 0.7 .291  3.2  4.0 .821 0.9 5.2 6.1 3.8 1.5 0.5 2.1 2.1 20.0
Career            NBA     1072 1039 38.3 11.4 22.9 .497 0.5 1.7 .327  6.8  8.2 .835 1.6 4.7 6.2 5.3 2.3 0.8 2.7 2.6 30.1

6 titles
6 Finals MVPS
39 50 point games
31 triple doubles
28 game winners
10x NBA scoring leader
3x NBA steals leader
11x NBA points leader
9x played 82 games
6 of the top 10 playoff scoring averages

only player to lead the league in scoring and win DPOY and MVP in the same season
only rookie in the NBA to lead his team in 4 statistical categories
1 of 2 players to score 3000 points in a season (Wilt)
hold the record for blocks by a guard in a season (131)
holds the record for blocks by a guard for a career (893)
only player in NBA history with multiple seasons of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks

NCAA National Championship - University of North Carolina: 1981-82
3x Atlantic Coast Conference regular season champions: 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84 (undefeated)
1982 ACC Tournament champions
ACC Rookie of the Year: 1982
Naismith College Player of the Year: 1984
John R. Wooden Award: 1984
Adolph Rupp Trophy: 1984
USBWA College Player of the Year: 1984
ACC Athlete of the Year: 1984
ACC Men's Basketball Player of the Year: 1984
2x The Sporting News College Player of the Year: 1983, 1984
2x Consensus First Team All-American: 1983, 1984

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Class of 2009
6-time NBA champion: 1991-93, 1996-98 (all with Chicago Bulls)
6 NBA Finals appearances: 1991-93, 1996-98
5-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998[1][2]
10-time scoring champion: 1987-93, 1996–98[3]
3-time steals leader: 1988, 1990, 1993
3-time minutes leader: 1987-89
14-time NBA All-Star: 1985-93, 1996–98, 2002-03[4]
3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 1988, 1996, 1998[5]
6-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player: 1991-93, 1996-98[6]
1-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1987-88[7]
11-time All-NBA selection:
First Team: 1987-93, 1996-98[8][9]
Second Team: 1985[8][9]
9-time All-Defensive selection:
First Team: 1988-93, 1996-98[1[11]
NBA All-Rookie selection:
First Team: 1985[12][13]
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1985[14]
2-time NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion: 1987, 1988[15]
Runner-up in 1985
7-time The Sporting News Most Valuable Player: 1987-88, 1988–89, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98
Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year: 1991
Ranked #1 by SLAM Magazine's Top 75 Players of All-time
Ranked #1 by ESPN Sportscentury's Top 100 Athletes of the 20th Century
Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"
Selected in 1996 as member of two of the "Top 10 Teams in NBA History"

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I really don't see the point of posting that as if everyone doesn't know what he has done.

I was speaking on dude that is using the, "If he wouldn't have retired he would have another ring" point as if it is vital to this discussion.

 

[solarius49]

the first sentence was just me being douchy, just messing with you though DC. But alot of people DONT know what he's done, theres alot of younger folks in here who have never seen the guy play or followed his career. to say nobody will EVER be better is pretty shortsighted, but we can definitely say that we havent seen anything like him since, up to this point

and thats not even mentioning his streak of 10 triple doubles in 11 games.....or 6 game stretch averaging 46 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists and 4 steals

so saying "no one will ever be better" is definitely hyperbole, but we will be hard pressed to find anybody who put together such an impressive resume

 

[DCAllAfrican]

the first sentence was just me being douchy, just messing with you though DC. But alot of people DONT know what he's done, theres alot of younger folks in here who have never seen the guy play or followed his career. to say nobody will EVER be better is pretty shortsighted, but we can definitely say that we havent seen anything like him since, up to this point

Oh aight, that you were being a jerk man.

But it bothers me that we feel the need to KEEP comparing folks to Jordan. I mean damn, at what point does this "debate" get old. Nobody is there yet. Nobody is honestly close yet. Let it rest. Just let it die man.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

But OP, you won't be able to understand if you didn't LIVE through a player's era. Yea you can watch tape/film, but you can't feel what it was like when that player was on top of his game unless you lived through his days. So you can't just look at stats and compare to someone today because you don't see the whole story. You just see numbers. You can't see the relationship to pop culture. You don't see the dominance like we see waking up every day saying, "Damn LeBron did it AGAIN."

So unless you were THERE, you won't understand.

The same way people who believe Jordan is the best ever can't really understand what it was like to live through Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Dr. J, and partially Magic and Bird. So when we have these, "Who is the best ever" conversations, it is all about when you were born and what you personally experienced.

The same thing we do with music, tv, cartoons, etc. Everything is "better" when you experience it as a child.

Based on HISTORY, there will be someone that a certain era will deem as the best ever. It happens. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE ELSE TO COME ALONG.

 

[ihateposers]

The game was mentally challenging when mike played. People would hurt you. If you went into the paint you were going to get hit hard and you would not want to go back in. If you do that today, you will get a flagrant 2 and suspended.

People are too friendly these days. There isnt the same chippiness and competitive nature. Do you really think if lebron played during the 80s and 90s he would get that many easy lay ups? He would be mauled.

That was one of the biggest challenges MJ faced on his path to greatness - being abused by the Pistons and later the Knicks. This was physical but its also mental. The fear of going into the paint. It forces you to be a jump shooter.

Lebron is a great player and will be one of the greats just based on his stats and his ability to dominate a game.

If Jordan played today he would mentally decimate every player that guarded him except maybe kobe.

In my eyes, basketball greatness is based on 3 things - mental toughness, stats, and sadly rings. Right now Lebron doesn't measure up to Mr.Jordan and due to how soft this league has become, he never will.

 

[goldmember]

Leron needs to hit that J consistently as well as playing lockdown defense before he can sniff that Prime MJ level..

Kobe had the jumpshot but never really played consistent defense like MJ does..

 

[benny bugatti]

I can't believe dudes are acting like Scottie in his prime was better than Wade in his prime? For real? You rather take a 22-7-6 guy over Wade from 04-10, really?

Scottie was a great player, no doubt. But clearly was not an Alpha Dog. In the clutch, Phil was drawing up plays for Toni Kukoc! I don't ever remember Scottie dominating a playoff series. Where was Pip when Chicago lost to Orlando in 95?

Wade beasted in the playoffs his first 3 years in the league, and then did it again in a loss to Boston in 09. Scottie just didn't have that type of game.