Congress clears historic health care bill...

Myth 1: This is a universal health care bill.

Fact: The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance. According to the Congressional Budget Office:


* Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million

* Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million


Myth 2: Insurance companies hate this bill.

Fact: This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.
The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint vice president. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%.

Myth 3: The bill will significantly bring down insurance premiums for most Americans.


Fact: The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that President Obama promised during his campaign.

Annual premiums in 2016: status quo / with bill:
Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800
Small group market, family: $19,3oo / $19,200
Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300
Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300
Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800
Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200

(The cost of premiums in the individual market goes up somewhat due to subsidies and mandates of better coverage. The CBO assumes that cost of individual policies goes down 7-10%, and that people will buy more generous policies.)

Myth 4: The bill will make health care affordable for middle class Americans.


Fact: The bill will impose a financial hardship on middle class Americans who will be forced to buy a product that they can't afford to use.

A family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income -- out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible.

Myth 5: This plan is similar to the Massachusetts plan, which makes health care affordable.

Fact: Many Massachusetts residents forgo health care because they can't afford it. A 2009 study by the state of Massachusetts found that:


* 21% of residents forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it, including 12% of children

* 18% have health insurance but can't afford to use it


Myth 6: This bill provides health care to 31 million people who are currently uninsured.

Fact: This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.

Myth 7: You can keep the insurance you have if you like it.


Fact: The excise tax will result in employers switching to plans with higher co-pays and fewer covered services.
Older, less healthy employees with employer-based health care will be forced to pay much more in out-of-pocket expenses than they do now.

Myth 8: The "excise tax" will encourage employers to reduce the scope of health care benefits, and they will pass the savings on to employees in the form of higher wages.

Fact: There is insufficient evidence that employers pass savings from reduced benefits on to employees.

Myth 9: This bill employs nearly every cost control idea available to bring down costs.

Fact: This bill does not bring down costs and leaves out nearly every key cost control measure, including:


* Public Option ($25-$110 billion)

* Medicare buy-in

* Drug re-importation ($19 billion)

* Medicare drug price negotiation ($300 billion)

* Shorter pathway to generic biologics ($71 billion)



Myth 10: The bill will require big companies like Wal-Mart to provide insurance for their employees.

Fact: The bill was written so that most Wal-Mart employees will qualify for subsidies, and taxpayers will pick up a large portion of the cost of their coverage.

Myth 11: The bill "bends the cost curve" on health care.

Fact: "Bends the cost curve" is a misleading and trivial claim, as the U.S. would still spend far more for care than other advanced countries.


* In 2009, health care costs were 17.3% of GDP.

* Annual cost of health care in 2019, status quo: $4,670.6 billion (20.8% of GDP)

* Annual cost of health care in 2019, Senate bill: $4,693.5 billion (20.9% of GDP)


Myth 12: The bill will provide immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition.

Fact: Access to the "high risk pool" is limited and the pool is underfunded. Only those who have been uninsured for more than six months will qualify for the high-risk pool. Only 0.7% of those without insurance now will get coverage, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services report estimates it will run out of funding by 2011 or 2012.

Myth 13: The bill prohibits dropping people in individual plans from coverage when they get sick.

Fact: The bill does not empower a regulatory body to keep people from being dropped when they're sick. There are already many states that have laws on the books prohibiting people from being dropped when they're sick, but without an enforcement mechanism, there is little to hold the insurance companies in check.

Myth 14: The bill ensures consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to challenge new insurance plan decisions
.

Fact: The "internal appeals process" is in the hands of the insurance companies themselves, and the "external" one is up to each state.

Ensuring that consumers have access to "internal appeals" simply means the insurance companies have to review their own decisions. And it is the responsibility of each state to provide an "external appeals process," as there is neither funding nor a regulatory mechanism for enforcement at the federal level.

Myth 15: This bill will stop insurance companies from hiking rates 30%-40% per year.


Fact: This bill does not limit insurance company rate hikes. Private insurers continue to be exempt from anti-trust laws, and are free to raise rates without fear of competition in many areas of the country.

Myth 16: When the bill passes, people will begin receiving benefits under this bill immediately

Fact: Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Six months from the date of passage, children could not be excluded from coverage due to pre-existing conditions, though insurance companies could charge more to cover them. Children would also be allowed to stay on their parents' plans until age 26. There will be an elimination of lifetime coverage limits, a high risk pool for those who have been uninsured for more than 6 months, and community health centers will start receiving money.

Myth 17: The bill creates a pathway for single payer.


Fact: Bernie Sanders' provision in the Senate bill does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, so no, it doesn't create a pathway for single payer.

Obama told Dennis Kucinich that the Ohio Representative's amendment is similar to Bernie Sanders' provision in the Senate bill, and creates a pathway to single payer. Since the waiver does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, it is nearly impossible to see how it gets around the ERISA laws that stand in the way of any practical state single payer system.

Myth 18: The bill will end medical bankruptcy and provide all Americans with peace of mind.

Fact: Most people with medical bankruptcies already have insurance, and out-of-pocket expenses will continue to be a burden on the middle class.


* In 2009, 1.5 million Americans declared bankruptcy

* Of those, 62% were medically related

* Three-quarters of those had health insurance

* The Obama bill leaves 24 million without insurance

* The maximum yearly out-of-pocket limit for a family will be $11,900 (PDF) on top of premiums

* A family with serious medical problems that last for a few years could easily be financially crushed by medical costs
 
Originally Posted by UTVOL23

You obviously dont get it. He did not just start this small business he is a long times small business owner who has been doing fairly well. It has nothing to do with poor investments


nerd.gif


"With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day."

nerd.gif
 
Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by chozin87

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

I support hard work on all facets...I have 2 relations in my family who are both neurosurgeons so I understand hard work should be applauded and rewarded. But hard work exists in alot of facets in life not just the guy who graduated a law or medical school. IMO, as a former Navy guy, I would love to see more military personnel be paid more for their services but will that happen? Probably not...


I will never hate on someone's hard work, but I don't respect how some of ya'll seem salty that the hard working single mother with a 2 or 3 kids (example) who works 2 jobs to make ends meet can't have the same kinda health care that should be given to hard working citizens of this country....

Take aside the financial aspect of it, everyone should be entitled to health care in this country...I look at both sides of this situation.
If you are in America there is a 99% chance you are free to live the life you choose.
Why should people who choose to do more for themselves and society have to pay for people who choose do less for themselves and society?  

If it's the insurance industry vs the government...God bless us all because I'm sure the insurance industry will just buy the government out for things to work out in their favor.


  
SMH at you thinking that anyone who doesnt prosper in this country equates to choosing to do less for themselves.
That sounds ignorant as hell.

Thats just as bad as believing that everyone with money got there through hard work.
I guess people don't have personal responsibility for how their lives turn out anymore. 
 
Originally Posted by North Dade Represent



^ Nobody told Grandpa to start his own business. You know got damn well that you're taking more risk and incurring more expenses when it's your own business. Grandpa could have been a factory worker and his wife could been a secretary. They could have stacked chips and poured money into their 401K. They could have invested like any 50+ individual with common sense and had their funds in safe invstments. They put themselves in that situation and then wanna blame Obama for why they can't retire. They chose to play risky ball and got burnt.

I have an uncle who probably never made more than 40K in any year, that retired before he turned 60. If Obama raises taxes it probably won't effect him one bit.
Wow for real? Please tell me you are joking...

Your outlook on life is just sad...
 
Originally Posted by HOVKid

JaysRcrak wrote:

I will not lose any sleep over the rich having to pay more taxes. That's the tradeoff for being rich. When you make more money you pay more taxes.
It is similar to the celebrity that has fame and fortune but in return has no privacy.
It's not a secret. They all know this. On flip side the rich get many, many more tax breaks than the middle and lower class. Is it fair that they make more money and get more taxes breaks? It is the nature of the system. THIS IS AMERICA. That is the price of capitalism.
If you don't want to pay more taxes don't be rich OR move out of the country.
Stop all of this complaining and whining.

Sure, it is hard work to become a doctor. Sure they had to go to school half of their lives to obtain the knowledge to be able to properly care for their patients.
Yes they have racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans that have to be repaid. And for that, YES they deserve to be paid the way the are paid.
But the fact of the matter is that THEY CHOSE that lifestyle. THEY CHOSE THEIR PROFESSION. Nobody twisted their arms and made them become doctors.
I'm sure there are some doctors in the world that through some experience in their life chose to be a doctor because they wanted to make the world a better place.
But let's be real. Alot of people become doctors for the money and prestige.
And if you wanna make those exorbitant amounts of money, you gotta pay.

Seriously NT. Let's not be naive.

This health care reform is obviously going to help alot of people. That's what it's all about.
At the same time, there is no way that you can satisfy everybody.
Some people will like the chances and some won't.

If we do nothing premiums will go up anyway.
Those same rich people are going to pay more one way or another. Whether it's by rising premiums or higher taxes.
Why not pay more AND in the process help the rest of the nation?

Look at it this way:
You are a hard working American, and as a result you have joined the upper-class. You are a model citizen.
You always pay your insurance bill on time. Then one day you discover that your 7 year old child has a rare form of cancer.
Your insurance company deploys their watchdogs and they find a discrepancy on your application, and they drop you.
Now you are stuck with an outrageous medical bill. That medical bill bankrupts you.
All of your hard work gone. Everything you worked so hard for vanishes because the greedy insurance companies don't want to pay.
Even though you have paid thousands and thousands in premiums over the years, which seem to keep doubling every couple of years.
Many succesful people have become homeless in scenarios just like this.

How is that fair? You worked hard but still end up poor.
These kind of practices cannot continue.

Blow me. 

Number 1: $250k a year is not rich homie.  $250k a year is middle class.

Number 2:  I agree that I should pay more taxes if I make more money, but we should all pay the same PERCENTAGE of what we make.  What is this BS that you make more money so you pay more taxes AND we apply a higher percentage.

Let's see how you dorks feel the day you work your @%% off and steal bread from the deli that is downstairs from you that comes at 3am and sits in your building doorway until the guy comes to open the deli (just so you can freaking eat because all of your money is going to tuition), then work 18 hour days for 8 years to get where you are.  Also let's remember that you dug for change in your couch so you could get on the subway to go on job interviews.  Then also remember that you are paying back apprix $150k in loans necessary to attend law school. 
  
Your statement is dumb and ininformed.  You have no idea what you are even talking about.  You want to tax people with these trust fund millions....fine.....you want to tax actors, sports stars that make tens of millions a year, fine.  You want to tax the dudes that make $251k -$1m a year more because they make that much?  please.




First of all genius, I never said that 250k dollars was rich. That's #1
#2. Well then what do you propose we do? Nothing? Maintain the status quo?
Yeah that's it. Because that's going to solve the problem.
You sound stupid.

You have no problem with the sport stars, and the actors, and others well above your tax bracket getting taxed. You have no problem saying that you dont want to pay for the lower class and they should pay taxes. But when it comes to your tax bracket, now you have a problem

If that's not the defintion of hypocritical, i don't know what is.


And the worst part about it is that everyone on both sides agree that if we do nothing it will literally destroy our economy longterm.
Which means that those same couple of dollars that you are so unwilling to give up now, you will end up losing in the end anyway.

Why do you think these health insurance lobbyist have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to fight reform?
They have a sweet deal, and they don't want it messed up.

Who else can charge you a monthly premium for years and years under the pretense that if anything ever happens to you they will be there to cover you.
But then, when you really need their help they find a way to not pay up. They find something in your application( the same application that they have always had on file, for all the years they allowed you to pay them premiums) and drop you. No refunds, no prorated rates. No nothing.

Now what are you going to do? You've a half of million dollars in medical bills that has to come out of your pocket. What is the use of paying for a service that you don't receive?
Those are type of situations that have bankrupted successful middle class families across America. It has to stop! It's not just about paying for the lower class. This can benefit everyone.

America needs this. There is no reason to wait. There is no reason to start over.

Republicans keep saying "lets start over, let's start over"
But when hundreds of their ideas actually makes into the bill they turn around and vote against their own proposals.

What makes you think it's going to be any different next time. It won't be. It'll be the same arguments aimed at scoring the same political points.

The time is now. It's the right thing to do.


.
 
We obviously just need to agree to disagree. I like a stimulating debate but lets not take it to another level guys. Thats why they say not to discuss Politics and Religion with most of your associates and friends b/c if you disagree you are not going to change the others mind and could wind up ruining a friendship
 
I don't quite get this new healthcare bill, but would it cover someone who knowingly pollutes themselves with dangerous substances like drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes? Let's say they get a messed up liver from years of alcohol abuse, would they now be covered? Do they deserved to be covered if they abused alcohol and neglected to work to amount to something?
 
Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by UTVOL23

You obviously dont get it. He did not just start this small business he is a long times small business owner who has been doing fairly well. It has nothing to do with poor investments


nerd.gif


"With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day."

nerd.gif
The previous comment was that he caused it by starting his own business, and that he should have invested in safe investments. The previous poster was not referring to the stock market.
 
Originally Posted by UTVOL23


[h1]Reply from Grandpa[/h1]
by andrew on March 12, 2010
grandpa.jpg

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business.

She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants (John G. is her Grandfather).

Your “Savior
 
Originally Posted by UTVOL23

Originally Posted by CParkFresh

Originally Posted by UTVOL23

You obviously dont get it. He did not just start this small business he is a long times small business owner who has been doing fairly well. It has nothing to do with poor investments


nerd.gif


"With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day."

nerd.gif
The previous comment was that he caused it by starting his own business, and that he should have invested in safe investments. The previous poster was not referring to the stock market. Just because he is losing tons of money in the stock market doesnt mean they were poor investments. Millions of people lost quite a bit of money in what are considered very safe investments ie. mutual funds. They will most likely recoup the money the problem is for someone that is 63 they dont have the time, whereas someone who is 30 has the time. What do you suppose he should have done with the money put it under his mattress?
 
Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

Myth 1: This is a universal health care bill.

Fact: The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance. According to the Congressional Budget Office:


* Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million

* Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million


Myth 2: Insurance companies hate this bill.

Fact: This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.
The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint vice president. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%.

Myth 3: The bill will significantly bring down insurance premiums for most Americans.


Fact: The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that President Obama promised during his campaign.

Annual premiums in 2016: status quo / with bill:
Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800
Small group market, family: $19,3oo / $19,200
Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300
Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300
Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800
Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200

(The cost of premiums in the individual market goes up somewhat due to subsidies and mandates of better coverage. The CBO assumes that cost of individual policies goes down 7-10%, and that people will buy more generous policies.)

Myth 4: The bill will make health care affordable for middle class Americans.


Fact: The bill will impose a financial hardship on middle class Americans who will be forced to buy a product that they can't afford to use.

A family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income -- out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible.

Myth 5: This plan is similar to the Massachusetts plan, which makes health care affordable.

Fact: Many Massachusetts residents forgo health care because they can't afford it. A 2009 study by the state of Massachusetts found that:


* 21% of residents forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it, including 12% of children

* 18% have health insurance but can't afford to use it


Myth 6: This bill provides health care to 31 million people who are currently uninsured.

Fact: This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.

Myth 7: You can keep the insurance you have if you like it.


Fact: The excise tax will result in employers switching to plans with higher co-pays and fewer covered services.
Older, less healthy employees with employer-based health care will be forced to pay much more in out-of-pocket expenses than they do now.

Myth 8: The "excise tax" will encourage employers to reduce the scope of health care benefits, and they will pass the savings on to employees in the form of higher wages.

Fact: There is insufficient evidence that employers pass savings from reduced benefits on to employees.

Myth 9: This bill employs nearly every cost control idea available to bring down costs.

Fact: This bill does not bring down costs and leaves out nearly every key cost control measure, including:


* Public Option ($25-$110 billion)

* Medicare buy-in

* Drug re-importation ($19 billion)

* Medicare drug price negotiation ($300 billion)

* Shorter pathway to generic biologics ($71 billion)



Myth 10: The bill will require big companies like Wal-Mart to provide insurance for their employees.

Fact: The bill was written so that most Wal-Mart employees will qualify for subsidies, and taxpayers will pick up a large portion of the cost of their coverage.

Myth 11: The bill "bends the cost curve" on health care.

Fact: "Bends the cost curve" is a misleading and trivial claim, as the U.S. would still spend far more for care than other advanced countries.


* In 2009, health care costs were 17.3% of GDP.

* Annual cost of health care in 2019, status quo: $4,670.6 billion (20.8% of GDP)

* Annual cost of health care in 2019, Senate bill: $4,693.5 billion (20.9% of GDP)


Myth 12: The bill will provide immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition.

Fact: Access to the "high risk pool" is limited and the pool is underfunded. Only those who have been uninsured for more than six months will qualify for the high-risk pool. Only 0.7% of those without insurance now will get coverage, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services report estimates it will run out of funding by 2011 or 2012.

Myth 13: The bill prohibits dropping people in individual plans from coverage when they get sick.

Fact: The bill does not empower a regulatory body to keep people from being dropped when they're sick. There are already many states that have laws on the books prohibiting people from being dropped when they're sick, but without an enforcement mechanism, there is little to hold the insurance companies in check.

Myth 14: The bill ensures consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to challenge new insurance plan decisions
.

Fact: The "internal appeals process" is in the hands of the insurance companies themselves, and the "external" one is up to each state.

Ensuring that consumers have access to "internal appeals" simply means the insurance companies have to review their own decisions. And it is the responsibility of each state to provide an "external appeals process," as there is neither funding nor a regulatory mechanism for enforcement at the federal level.

Myth 15: This bill will stop insurance companies from hiking rates 30%-40% per year.


Fact: This bill does not limit insurance company rate hikes. Private insurers continue to be exempt from anti-trust laws, and are free to raise rates without fear of competition in many areas of the country.

Myth 16: When the bill passes, people will begin receiving benefits under this bill immediately

Fact: Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Six months from the date of passage, children could not be excluded from coverage due to pre-existing conditions, though insurance companies could charge more to cover them. Children would also be allowed to stay on their parents' plans until age 26. There will be an elimination of lifetime coverage limits, a high risk pool for those who have been uninsured for more than 6 months, and community health centers will start receiving money.

Myth 17: The bill creates a pathway for single payer.


Fact: Bernie Sanders' provision in the Senate bill does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, so no, it doesn't create a pathway for single payer.

Obama told Dennis Kucinich that the Ohio Representative's amendment is similar to Bernie Sanders' provision in the Senate bill, and creates a pathway to single payer. Since the waiver does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, it is nearly impossible to see how it gets around the ERISA laws that stand in the way of any practical state single payer system.

Myth 18: The bill will end medical bankruptcy and provide all Americans with peace of mind.

Fact: Most people with medical bankruptcies already have insurance, and out-of-pocket expenses will continue to be a burden on the middle class.


* In 2009, 1.5 million Americans declared bankruptcy

* Of those, 62% were medically related

* Three-quarters of those had health insurance

* The Obama bill leaves 24 million without insurance

* The maximum yearly out-of-pocket limit for a family will be $11,900 (PDF) on top of premiums

* A family with serious medical problems that last for a few years could easily be financially crushed by medical costs

All it takes is to position a debate in democrat/ liberal vs. republican/conservative terms and the actual matter at hand is overlooked.
There is a reason that this "national" health care system is being instituted now. If you look at the finances of this country you realize why it is being created and whom it benefits.

Even the majority of those who are against it do not realize the true rationale behind this scheme. I really want to explain it but I know I'll be wasting my time. It's not terribly hard to figure out. There are certain fiscal realities out there and there are certain people who are set to lose big because of these realities. Hence, they start rigging the game.

Expect more HealthSouth's and Wellpoint's but in multiples of magnitude.
 
Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns you further prove my point that you are dumb.... My viewpoint is un-american..Yeah because there were no progressive founders. You don't know $#%!.... You literally compared 9/11 and a health care bill...


My viewpoint is Un-american.... !$%% you.... Because I want everyone to have access to health care so they can live a healthy life... And I believe in giving everyone to have an actual chance to actually experience the "American Dream".. That is un-american.. I think you and your viewpoint have lost the view of what America is.. Where everyone deserves a chance.. Everyone should have an equal say....

But what you argue is the further redistribution of wealth to the rich... That has crippled the middle class and screwed up the economy twice in 30 years... You really have the best interest of America in mind.. Right... Your viewpoint is the reason the health care has gone up 119% in the past decade.. Your viewpoint is the reason millions are unemployed, and your viewpoint is the reason banks became to big to fail and take unacceptable risks with people's life savings so they got a bailout..

Your opinion is wrong and has been wrong for decades...

You talk about how Democrats hate Capitalism.. But your bow to corporations have killed capitalism.. You have decreased competition at every turn.. Got rid of rules that protect corporations and the people they sell to.. And have basically made us second class to corporations.... And then you look around and wonder what happened and try to blame everyone else...

I blame your ideology because it has FAILED.. Countless times.. But you will never admit it....

So don't say a damn thing about who or what is un-American because unlike you I care about all 330 million people (even the clowns like yourself) where as you care about the top 10%... If you ask me that is the definition of un-American



Shut your mouth and get the hell out of the debates......

Enjoy getting banned.


  
 
First of all genius, I never said that 250k dollars was rich. That's #1
#2. Well then what do you propose we do? Nothing? Maintain the status quo?
Yeah that's it. Because that's going to solve the problem.
You sound stupid.

You have no problem with the sport stars, and the actors, and others well above your tax bracket getting taxed. You have no problem saying that you dont want to pay for the lower class and they should pay taxes. But when it comes to your tax bracket, now you have a problem

If that's not the defintion of hypocritical, i don't know what is.

So your saying that if all Americans received a 5% increase in taxes you wouldn't be upset?

And the worst part about it is that everyone on both sides agree that if we do nothing it will literally destroy our economy longterm.
Which means that those same couple of dollars that you are so unwilling to give up now, you will end up losing in the end anyway.

This bill does not do enough to decrease the cost of health care. It drops our projected health care spending by a whopping 1%


Why do you think these health insurance lobbyist have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to fight reform?
They have a sweet deal, and they don't want it messed up.
Health Insurance stocks have shot up 28.5% since January. With 31 million Americans now being mandated to purchase insurance, Health insurance companies just got the deal of the century.

Who else can charge you a monthly premium for years and years under the pretense that if anything ever happens to you they will be there to cover you.
But then, when you really need their help they find a way to not pay up. They find something in your application( the same application that they have always had on file, for all the years they allowed you to pay them premiums) and drop you. No refunds, no prorated rates. No nothing.

Now what are you going to do? You've a half of million dollars in medical bills that has to come out of your pocket. What is the use of paying for a service that you don't receive?
Those are type of situations that have bankrupted successful middle class families across America. It has to stop! It's not just about paying for the lower class. This can benefit everyone.

Health insurance companies can still drop your coverage at any time and as you can see from the article that I posted 75% of the  people who file for bankruptcy due to medical reason already have insurance so this bill will do nothing to curve the number of medical related bankruptcy.

America needs this. There is no reason to wait. There is no reason to start over.

Republicans keep saying "lets start over, let's start over"
But when hundreds of their ideas actually makes into the bill they turn around and vote against their own proposals.

What makes you think it's going to be any different next time. It won't be. It'll be the same arguments aimed at scoring the same political points.

The time is now. It's the right thing to do.

This bill sucks flat out. Its a handout to the insurance companies and a huge injustice to the American people.
 
thats crazy you can get fined/jailed for not having insurance though
laugh.gif
....dont get me wrong cause everybody needs it but to go that far is sorta smh worthy
 
Originally Posted by Uptown Roamer

Wow @ that video.

This country is so backwards, it's not even funny...



This. Realized this 9 yrs ago, and was reiterated with McCain/Palin
sick.gif
.
 
Originally Posted by Burns1923


Enjoy getting banned.


  

indifferent.gif


smh at the sheltered closed minded privliged kid that gets butt hurt because someone disagrees with him and looks for any reason to press the report fan.

and your a celtics fan too
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Originally Posted by UTVOL23


[h1]Reply from Grandpa[/h1]
by andrew on March 12, 2010
grandpa.jpg

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business.

He’s a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated.

With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

Ashley is a recent college grad.

She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants (John G. is her Grandfather).

Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama.

After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse.

Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

This is absolutely pathetic; I mean really, has the GOP ship sunken this low...a "sob story"...comon son...
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And don't you just looovveee how they portray Ashley--the "[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]liberal[/color]" grand daughter who is an Obama supporter: "...drives [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]flashy[/color] hybrid cars, wears all the[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)] [/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]latest fashions[/color], and [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants[/color]."

Quite frankly, this wreaks of the same stench/tactics employed by GOP grassroots movements in their attempt to draw parallels between Obama and his progressive ideas to Hitler and his national socialist party (NAZI)...

Please stop it...
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...
 
Originally Posted by Black Jesus

thats crazy you can get fined/jailed for not having insurance though
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....dont get me wrong cause everybody needs it but to go that far is sorta smh worthy


Same thing with car insurance, 'it is what it is'
 
Did that dude really press the report button?
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terrycloth.
Don't be mad b/c Essential got you fair and square...and did it so eloquently.
 
Why do people keep saying that those who oppose the bill are "misinformed"? Why don't you people start informing...

And no, I'm not trying to stir up anything, I just wanna understand the bill a little better. I've read this whole thread plus CNN, MSN and yahoo!, and I'm still not sure about this bill.
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by UTVOL23


[h1]Reply from Grandpa[/h1]
by andrew on March 12, 2010
grandpa.jpg

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business.

He’s a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated.

With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

Ashley is a recent college grad.

She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants (John G. is her Grandfather).

Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama.

After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse.

Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

This is absolutely pathetic; I mean really, has the GOP ship sunken this low...a "sob story"...comon son...
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif


And don't you just looovveee how they portray Ashley--the "[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]liberal[/color]" grand daughter who is an Obama supporter: "...drives [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]flashy[/color] hybrid cars, wears all the[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)] [/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]latest fashions[/color], and [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants[/color]."

Quite frankly, this wreaks of the same stench/tactics employed by GOP grassroots movements in their attempt to draw parallels between Obama and his progressive ideas to Hitler and his national socialist party (NAZI)...

Please stop it...
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif



...
It is so obvious it is comical.......

Damn kids and their erector sets, transistor radios, Beach Boys and objective thinking..
 
Originally Posted by ThunderChunk69

Originally Posted by UTVOL23


[h1]Reply from Grandpa[/h1]
by andrew on March 12, 2010
grandpa.jpg

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business.

She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants (John G. is her Grandfather).

Your “Savior
 
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