Congress clears historic health care bill...

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns you further prove my point that you are dumb.... My viewpoint is un-american..Yeah because there were no progressive founders. You don't know $#%!.... You literally compared 9/11 and a health care bill...


My viewpoint is Un-american.... !$%% you.... Because I want everyone to have access to health care so they can live a healthy life... And I believe in giving everyone to have an actual chance to actually experience the "American Dream".. That is un-american.. I think you and your viewpoint have lost the view of what America is.. Where everyone deserves a chance.. Everyone should have an equal say....

But what you argue is the further redistribution of wealth to the rich... That has crippled the middle class and screwed up the economy twice in 30 years... You really have the best interest of America in mind.. Right... Your viewpoint is the reason the health care has gone up 119% in the past decade.. Your viewpoint is the reason millions are unemployed, and your viewpoint is the reason banks became to big to fail and take unacceptable risks with people's life savings so they got a bailout..

Your opinion is wrong and has been wrong for decades...

You talk about how Democrats hate Capitalism.. But your bow to corporations have killed capitalism.. You have decreased competition at every turn.. Got rid of rules that protect corporations and the people they sell to.. And have basically made us second class to corporations.... And then you look around and wonder what happened and try to blame everyone else...

I blame your ideology because it has FAILED.. Countless times.. But you will never admit it....

So don't say a damn thing about who or what is un-American because unlike you I care about all 330 million people (even the clowns like yourself) where as you care about the top 10%... If you ask me that is the definition of un-American



Shut your mouth and get the hell out of the debates......

Enjoy getting banned.
  

Cop out answer. How about a real reply.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

Why do people keep saying that those who oppose the bill are "misinformed"? Why don't you people start informing...

And no, I'm not trying to stir up anything, I just wanna understand the bill a little better. I've read this whole thread plus CNN, MSN and yahoo!, and I'm still not sure about this bill.

It's not all people who oppose it per say.  There are a lot of people who are greatly informed who oppose it because it is not strong enough because of a lack of government intervention to take on insurance companies for the people... It is people who act like it is the end of America.. Or say there is absolutely not 1 major benefit of this bill.. That is what they mean...

 

[jaysrcrak]

Originally Posted by JustScoreda100

First of all genius, I never said that 250k dollars was rich. That's #1

#2. Well then what do you propose we do? Nothing? Maintain the status
quo?

Yeah that's it. Because that's going to solve the problem.

You sound stupid.



You have no problem with the sport stars, and the actors, and others
well above your tax bracket getting taxed. You have no problem saying
that you dont want to pay for the lower class and they should pay taxes.
But when it comes to your tax bracket, now you have a problem



If that's not the defintion of hypocritical, i don't know what is.

So your saying that if all Americans received a 5% increase in taxes you wouldn't be upset?


How did you get that from what I said? I was responding to HOVKid's hypocrical comment that he does not want to pay for all the lazy people but has no problem with athletes in a higher tax bracket getting taxed to death. if you're going to try and call me out read what I wrote.

And the worst part about it is that everyone on both sides agree that if
we do nothing it will literally destroy our economy longterm.

Which means that those same couple of dollars that you are so unwilling
to give up now, you will end up losing in the end anyway.


This bill does not do enough to decrease the cost of health care. It drops our projected health care spending by a whopping 1%



So I guess you gladly accept the alternative. Letting the insurance companies continue to raise their rates with no regulation, making it hard for small businesses to offer their employees a comprehensive, affordable health care plan

Why do you think these health insurance lobbyist have spent hundreds of
millions of dollars to fight reform?

They have a sweet deal, and they don't want it messed up.
Health Insurance stocks have shot up 28.5% since January. With 31 million Americans now being mandated to purchase insurance, Health insurance companies just got the deal of the century.

Of course their stocks shot up. What did you think was going to happen? Opportunists see that the insurance companies stand to gain millions of new customers and they buy stock to capitlize from it. What does that have to do with anything? The insurance companies would not spend close to a billion dollars fighting something that they want to happen.[/
b]

Who else can charge you a monthly premium for years and years under the
pretense that if anything ever happens to you they will be there to
cover you.

But then, when you really need their help they find a way to not pay up.
They find something in your application( the same application that they
have always had on file, for all the years they allowed you to pay them
premiums) and drop you. No refunds, no prorated rates. No nothing.



Now what are you going to do? You've a half of million dollars in
medical bills that has to come out of your pocket. What is the use of
paying for a service that you don't receive?

Those are type of situations that have bankrupted successful middle
class families across America. It has to stop! It's not just about
paying for the lower class. This can benefit everyone.


Health insurance companies can still drop your coverage at any time and as you can see from the article that I posted 75% of the  people who file for bankruptcy due to medical reason already have insurance so this bill will do nothing to curve the number of medical related bankruptcy.



This once again demonstrates your inability to read with comprehension. This has nothing to do with the point I was making.
The point is that there needs to be something done about greedy insurance companies who collect premiums for years and when it's time foe them to pay they drop you.
I am talking about the thousands of people that pay every month for insurance and then when something happens and they need help, the insurance companies find loopholes so that they don't have to do what you pay them to do. provide insurance.

America needs this. There is no reason to wait. There is no reason to
start over.



Republicans keep saying "lets start over, let's start over"

But when hundreds of their ideas actually makes into the bill they turn
around and vote against their own proposals.



What makes you think it's going to be any different next time. It won't
be. It'll be the same arguments aimed at scoring the same political
points.



The time is now. It's the right thing to do.

This bill sucks flat out. Its a handout to the insurance companies and a huge injustice to the American people.




The only injustice to America is that these companies have been allowed to operate in this manner for so long. Profiting off of their customers when they are healthy and signing their death certificate when it's time pony up the dough.

 

[chokeonsmoke]

this is ridicules....

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by REDd SPYDER

What does this mean for average american? Someone simplify this for me please

Once Obama signs the bill... the following happens right away..


1.  $250 checks are processed and sent to Seniors who are in the Medicare drug coverage gap.  Meaning it helps offset the $310 "deductible" they have to pay initially to get prescription drugs.

2.  Children can stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26.  How many of you guys will benefit from this?  I am imagining a ton of ya all!

3. Insurance companies cannot cancel the policy of people who get sick.  So say I find out I have lung cancer, my insurance company has to treat me and cannot drop me.

4. Children/Adults with current medical problems cannot be denied insurance coverage.  So a child that has MS or is born with a birth defect who can't get insurance is now eligible for coverage. 

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns I literally want to punch you in the face right now.... My viewpoint is un-american..Yeah because there were no progressive founders. You don't know %@*+.... You literally compared 9/11 and a health care bill...


My viewpoint is Un-american.... @%+$ you.... Because I want everyone to have access to health care so they can live a healthy life... And I believe in giving everyone have an actual chance to actually experience the "American Dream".. That is unamerican.. I think you and your viewpoint have lost the view of what America is.. Where everyone deserves a chance.. Everyone should have an equal say....

But what you argue is the further redistribution of wealth to the rich... That has crippled the middle class and screwed up the economy twice in 30 years... You really have the best interest of America in mind.. Right... Your viewpoint is the reason the health care has gone up 119% in the past reason.. Your viewpoint is the reason millions are unemployed, and your viewpoint is the reason banks became to big to fail and take unacceptable risks with people's life savings so they got a bailout..

Your opinion is wrong and has been wrong for decades...

You talk about how Democrats hate Capitalism.. But your bow to corporations have killed capitalism

So don't say a damn thing about who or what is un-American because unlike you I care about all 330 million people (even the clowns like yourself) where as you care about the top 10%... If you ask me that is the definition of un-American

Shut your mouth and get the hell out of the debates......

I appreciate you for saying what I've been holding back from saying all day.

THIS

btw since when did the common american know what's good for themselves? there would still be segregation if everything was left up to the common american. i'm sick of people trying to convince me that if the average person in this country is against what's in this bill, then they must be right. get the *+!% out of here lets be brutally honest. point blank theres alot of dumb $%@ people in this country who are easy to manipulate and easy to get riled up. some are just getting older and older and lost touch with reality.

the founding fathers were pretty much ELITIST progressives. we just had a common "good ol boy" in the white house. how the hell did that turn out?

WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS. people decide to wake up and get into politics or something.

 

[mo matik]

Debates like this are a matter of moral values.

Some historians hold the position that the genocide of the Native Americans was for the greater good because of all the great strides we Americans have made. The same argument is often made for Israelis in Palestine. To some, it makes sense. To others, it's ludicrous.

It's a matter of morals. Acknowledge this difference and move on, for there is no sake in arguing once this is established.

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Essential1 wrote:

---

Burns you further prove my point that you are dumb.... My viewpoint is un-american..Yeah because there were no progressive founders. You don't know $#%!.... You literally compared 9/11 and a health care bill...


My viewpoint is Un-american.... !$%% you.... Because I want everyone to have access to health care so they can live a healthy life... And I believe in giving everyone to have an actual chance to actually experience the "American Dream".. That is un-american.. I think you and your viewpoint have lost the view of what America is.. Where everyone deserves a chance.. Everyone should have an equal say....

But what you argue is the further redistribution of wealth to the rich... That has crippled the middle class and screwed up the economy twice in 30 years... You really have the best interest of America in mind.. Right... Your viewpoint is the reason the health care has gone up 119% in the past decade.. Your viewpoint is the reason millions are unemployed, and your viewpoint is the reason banks became to big to fail and take unacceptable risks with people's life savings so they got a bailout..

Your opinion is wrong and has been wrong for decades...

You talk about how Democrats hate Capitalism.. But your bow to corporations have killed capitalism.. You have decreased competition at every turn.. Got rid of rules that protect corporations and the people they sell to.. And have basically made us second class to corporations.... And then you look around and wonder what happened and try to blame everyone else...

I blame your ideology because it has FAILED.. Countless times.. But you will never admit it....

So don't say a damn thing about who or what is un-American because unlike you I care about all 330 million people (even the clowns like yourself) where as you care about the top 10%... If you ask me that is the definition of un-American



Shut your mouth and get the hell out of the debates......

Enjoy getting banned.


  

%@%%%.

 

[letsgetit22]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by REDd SPYDER

What does this mean for average american? Someone simplify this for me please

Once Obama signs the bill... the following happens right away..



2.  Children can stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26.  How many of you guys will benefit from this?  I am imagining a ton of ya all!

. 

*raises hand*

 

[bacsilove]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE


2.  Children can stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26.  How many of you guys will benefit from this?  I am imagining a ton of ya all!

Damn, I didn't know anything about this until now. Thanks for the heads up.  Before this bill was passed it was only up to 24yo full time college student, correct? Do you still need to be a full time student after this bill passed?

 

[davidisgodly]

THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION. How democratic is that?


Yet, you can't disagree with results.

 

[devildog1776]

Everybody arguing over money thats gonna pop out of thin air and then will have to magically appear in the Feds books.... It's just another bailout.... Relax smoke a blunt , and think about the AGEnda of the establishment... Your voice is obsolete...

 

[dam itz lou]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by REDd SPYDER

What does this mean for average american? Someone simplify this for me please

Once Obama signs the bill... the following happens right away..


1.  $250 checks are processed and sent to Seniors who are in the Medicare drug coverage gap.  Meaning it helps offset the $310 "deductible" they have to pay initially to get prescription drugs.

2.  Children can stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26.  How many of you guys will benefit from this?  I am imagining a ton of ya all!

3. Insurance companies cannot cancel the policy of people who get sick.  So say I find out I have lung cancer, my insurance company has to treat me and cannot drop me.

4. Children/Adults with current medical problems cannot be denied insurance coverage.  So a child that has MS or is born with a birth defect who can't get insurance is now eligible for coverage. 

Does this take effect immediately ?

 

[justscoreda100]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by REDd SPYDER

What does this mean for average american? Someone simplify this for me please

Once Obama signs the bill... the following happens right away..


1.  $250 checks are processed and sent to Seniors who are in the Medicare drug coverage gap.  Meaning it helps offset the $310 "deductible" they have to pay initially to get prescription drugs.

2.  Children can stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26.  How many of you guys will benefit from this?  I am imagining a ton of ya all!

3. Insurance companies cannot cancel the policy of people who get sick.  So say I find out I have lung cancer, my insurance company has to treat me and cannot drop me.

4. Children/Adults with current medical problems cannot be denied insurance coverage.  So a child that has MS or is born with a birth defect who can't get insurance is now eligible for coverage. 

2. One of the sections of this bill that I support because it guarantees that I will have insurance for at least 5 more years.

3. Insurance companies may still be able to drop people because of illness because this bill does nothing to enforce that policy. It does allow people to appeal decisions made by their insurance companies but the board that reviews those decisions is made up of insurance companies so they have no real oversight to stop them from doing what they have been doing all along besides laws in individual states. And as you know those existing state laws were not enough to stop people from being dropped in the past.

4. Children are immediately required to be covered with preexisting illnesses, but insurance companies can still increase their parents rates because their child has a preexisting illness. Adults with preexisting conditions are not covered until at least 2014. And even then many people will be required to join the high risk pool which is underfunded and requires that you have been uninsured for at least 6 months. And just because insurance companies are required to cover  you regardless of your medical history doesn't mean that they cant hit you with ridiculous rate hikes. A lot of these high risk patients will be forced into high deductible insurance plans that will most will not even be able to afford.

 

[duba169]

this bill is hopefully just a stepping stone. once people realize that the sky isn't falling down. then obama can have much more sweeping change.


but these protesters are the best. money for two unjust wars and a bunch of banks, but no money for their fellow americans health care.

 

[brandon3000]

This is History... I think the reform brings a great deal of positive change this year along. Even in having young Americans being covered under their parents plan until age 26, thats pretty significant.

 

[spsfinest212]

Originally Posted by DubA169

this bill is hopefully just a stepping stone. once people realize that the sky isn't falling down. then obama can have much more sweeping change.


but these protesters are the best. money for two unjust wars and a bunch of banks, but no money for there fellow americans health care.

this.

 

[gambit215]

I have read all the pages of this thread and all I have to say is some of y'all are pathetic...... ppl only like to defend the wealthy and prosperous because in their warped minds they think they will be AS wealthy in their lifeftimes but we all know that's not gonna happen and people need to start calling things for what they are.....a black man finally being BOSS and white men are seething


Btw....I didn't get the memo that white folk could call ppl "racist".... if you look at that FB group you would have thought white man armageddon has arrived and the sad thing is white ppl will probably BENEFIT from this reform than ANYBODY

Oh yea I would like to see someone defend the "baby killer" comment, the ppl screaming at an ELDERLY MAN WITH PARKINSONS and all the countless despicable things that have been said......so many people think they are good people........I can't wait for the reality check

 

[xxxoverridexxx]

why is gary coleman next to obama?

 

[jaysrcrak]

Originally Posted by gambit215

I have read all the pages of this thread and all I have to say is some of y'all are pathetic...... ppl only like to defend the wealthy and prosperous because in their warped minds they think they will be AS wealthy in their lifeftimes but we all know that's not gonna happen and people need to start calling things for what they are.....a black man finally being BOSS and white men are seething


Btw....I didn't get the memo that white folk could call ppl "racist".... if you look at that FB group you would have thought white man armageddon has arrived and the sad thing is white ppl will probably BENEFIT from this reform than ANYBODY

Oh yea I would like to see someone defend the "baby killer" comment, the ppl screaming at an ELDERLY MAN WITH PARKINSONS and all the countless despicable things that have been said......so many people think they are good people........I can't wait for the reality check

yeah tea baggers really suck. They are mindless clones. But it doesn't matter now, Obama just signed the bill!
Now hopefully we can put all of our opinions aside and work toward making this bill the best it can be for all American through the changes they will make to it.

 

[ce0 mal]

gambit215 wrote:

---

I have read all the pages of this thread and all I have to say is some of y'all are pathetic...... ppl only like to defend the wealthy and prosperous because in their warped minds they think they will be AS wealthy in their lifeftimes but we all know that's not gonna happen and people need to start calling things for what they are.....a black man finally being BOSS and white men are seething


Btw....I didn't get the memo that white folk could call ppl "racist".... if you look at that FB group you would have thought white man armageddon has arrived and the sad thing is white ppl will probably BENEFIT from this reform than ANYBODY

I'm racist


Fixed.

 

[deuce king]

 point blank theres alot of dumb $%@ people in this country who are easy to manipulate and easy to get riled up. some are just getting older and older and lost touch with reality.


Exactly, and these type of people stated above are who the Republican party target as they know they will fall in line and NOT ask questions.

but these protesters are the best. money for two unjust wars and a bunch of banks, but no money for their fellow americans health care.

 

[duba169]

^plus they will VOTE. they will call their congressman, they will protest

gotta be real most 18-30 year olds aren't doing that

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Burns you further prove my point that you are dumb.... My viewpoint is un-american..Yeah because there were no progressive founders. You don't know $#%!.... You literally compared 9/11 and a health care bill...

You may choose to rewrite history for yourself.  What I compared was the attempt from both events to fundamentally change the United States.

My viewpoint is Un-american.... !$%% you.... Because I want everyone to have access to health care so they can live a healthy life... And I believe in giving everyone to have an actual chance to actually experience the "American Dream".. That is un-american.. I think you and your viewpoint have lost the view of what America is.. Where everyone deserves a chance.. Everyone should have an equal say....

  

First off, I haven't been in a direct dialogue with you in this thread so if you've read my posts and chosen to take offense for some reason, that is on you.  Second, why the profanity?  That's what immature young people do when they've got no mental control.  I get it - you want everybody to have health care no matter who pays for it.  Great.  I don't. 

I'll say again - yes, America is the best country in the world where the greatest chance at success exists.  BUT, it is unrealistic to try to "level the playing field", and it is also unrealistic to be able to determine what number of the helped people will ever have the motivation to achieve their goals on their own once they have someone or something (government) carrying some of their weight, all of the time.  What happened to personal accountability?  Furthermore, what happened to preserving individual rights (like not surrendering hard earned money for someone else's free ride)?  I don't get a free ride; never have, never will. 

But what you argue is the further redistribution of wealth to the rich... That has crippled the middle class and screwed up the economy twice in 30 years... You really have the best interest of America in mind.. Right... Your viewpoint is the reason the health care has gone up 119% in the past decade.. Your viewpoint is the reason millions are unemployed, and your viewpoint is the reason banks became to big to fail and take unacceptable risks with people's life savings so they got a bailout.

I've argued no such thing.  Do not fabricate.  It's long been a progressive agenda to demonize the rich, to view human beings as groups of gender and race rather than individuals.  People are people to me.  In that progressive exploitation, there has to be a villian; someone to take the blame for society's ills, someone to rally against.  Did people on Wall St. help usher the economic recession?  Oh yes.  Does that indict all "rich" people?  Absolutely not.  The best interest for this country is individuals taking advantage of opportunity, not taking from others.  In early American history, there were community gardens - fruit and vegetables grown for all the community, with the work tended by a few.  Know what eventually happened?  The many did no work while the few did all the work.  The free lunch ended.  The many soon realized that unless they pulled their own weight, they'd get nothing in return.  How does this apply to healthcare?  Once people have free healthcare, they'll have no motivation to give it up.  This creates a perpetual nanny society where a certain constituency is supported by those carrying their own weight and then some.  If you think that's a healthy America, fine.  I don't.

Your opinion is wrong and has been wrong for decades...

Progressivism and socialism has failed every time it has been tried around the world. 

Free-market capitalism remains.

You talk about how Democrats hate Capitalism.. But your bow to corporations have killed capitalism.. You have decreased competition at every turn.. Got rid of rules that protect corporations and the people they sell to.. And have basically made us second class to corporations.... And then you look around and wonder what happened and try to blame everyone else...


I haven't talked about such things.  I don't even recall thinking those things.  You really musn't make things up just because you want to attack people.  Everything you wrote in this quote above is a lie, a skewed, ideological rant.

I don't think you want to get into Clinton's pushing of home loans in the late 90s and the Fannie and Freddie situation. 

I blame your ideology because it has FAILED.. Countless times.. But you will never admit it....


Name one Democrat bill or proposal that has created sustained jobs growth AND sustained low unemployment.  Can't be done.  The Democrat Party believes that problems can be solved with money (taxes).  A largely taxed society has never prospered.

So don't say a damn thing about who or what is un-American because unlike you I care about all 330 million people (even the clowns like yourself) where as you care about the top 10%... If you ask me that is the definition of un-American


I care about all legal, taxpaying Americans, too.  Your Robin Hood economic outlook is pure naiveté.  And counter to how this country was founded.

Again, why are you angry?  And again making assumptions about other people's political beliefs?  You have Obama in the White House, a Democrat-controlled Congress, and a new healthcare bill.  Instead of grinning like the Cheshire Cat, you're trying to pick a fight on a sneaker message board. 

Shut your mouth and get the hell out of the debates......

What are you, 20?  You've owned up to every one of those young years with fluff like this. 

If you wish to have a point-counterpoint, great, we can do that.  But name calling and attacks are a waste of time, frankly.

Normal people agree to disagree but you have been unable to manage any civility.  We're not going to agree on health care.  Not going to happen.  But I can respect your right to your views as I would expect mine to be respected. 

The counterproductive piranha tact ruins conversation.

 

[superantigen]

I'm presently on my phone so I can't quote but something caught my eye that NEEDED to be addressed.

"It's unrealistic to try and 'level the playing field'...."

Question--so in essence, are you implying that any attempt to do so is fundamentally hopeless?

That said, are you suggesting that the 'playing field', as it is, where certain groups have historically benefited off the plight and subjugation of others be left as is?

People--pay attention because Burns has, knowingly or unknowingly, exhibited rational that proves why and how America is such a screwed up Nation. Additionally, a statement to the tune of "let's not bother trying to level the playing field" is undeniable evidence of having lived (past and present) a privileged life--racial wise, religion wise, gender wise, sexual orientation wise--whatever the case may be.

Like I said, I'm presently on my phone (in the train) so I can't type/say as much as I would had I been on a computer. But best believe I'll add two more cents when I get back home.

...