Dressing Better Vol 2.0

[rfx45]

...and? That's how most MTM suits are made.

They are all laser cut now? I thought most were still hand cut?

 

[tomdiginson]

i need ideas on what to wear while in vagas. its freakin 100+ there next week. what do you wear in this heat? seriously. 

linen

 

[vancity74]

They are all laser cut now? I thought most were still hand cut?

I can't speak for everyone, but mine are laser cut, and my tailor told me this is how most people are doing it nowadays. Basically, what tailors are doing now is just takes measurements and then outsourcing the cutting to another company. My guy gets his suits cut on the other side of the country. 2-3 week turnaround time and my suit is made in Canada, versus China like most other MTM suits are made.

 

[rfx45]

Well then my bad, being a new article on Wired I figured it isn't that common.

 

[davidnt]

Can anyone recommend a nice brown wingtip/oxford shoe for under $150? Don't know if I want to drop $200+ on some AE's yet since I won't be wearing them that much. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Swing by your JCPenney if you have one nearby. Their Stafford Ashton wingtip has gotten great reviews and is only $50. It recently got discontinued, but I've heard people finding a few left in store, so it can't hurt to check out--for $50, nothing new even comes close. Your other option would be to buy some used AEs off eBay. I don't know all of the details, but apparently you can clean them up and get them resoled or something, and they'll last year a few years at least.

On another note, I made an NT account JUST for this thread. I'm trying to mix elements of classic male fashion with streetwear, and the few pages I've read so far have had some great advice, pictures, etc. Just wanted to give you guys a shout out!

 

[pinoy732]

Wore this today:




GF snapped this pic of me when we met up today. I'd submit it to TSB but the quality of the picture looks grainy :\


I guess I'll try, this one and the first one anyway. We'll see lol

 

[ksteezy]

son, let your personality shine through them pics man.....smile or something...fits are awesome, but you guys be looking so stiff in them, nothing but love for my DB fam, but alot of ya need to smile a little more...

 

[pinoy732]

son, let your personality shine through them pics man.....smile or something...fits are awesome, but you guys be looking so stiff in them, nothing but love for my DB fam, but alot of ya need to smile a little more...

Lol, will try this whole "smiling" ? thing out in the morning hahaha.
Gnight DB fam

 

[wj4]

They are all laser cut now? I thought most were still hand cut?

Hand cut at rock bottom prices? Machines, bro. Numbers are input into Spreadsheets and off they go.

Today:

 

[scarsorscabs]

dont be a snob dude

ain't nothing about being a snob

JC Penney suits are horrible quality and will not fit correctly most of the time.

someone try and prove me wrong though

I doubt that I'd buy one and I'd generally agree but how can you make a definitive statement like that so blindly? It is a little snobbish because you're just basing it on your opinion of JC Penney. First, some people can't afford much more than JC Penney an if that's the case, there's likely very little that'll fit well off the rack. Second, and more importantly, I think Ears posted a pic of himself in one that (I don't know if it was tailored or not) fit pretty damn well based on what he posted for a cheap JCP suit.

 

[rfx45]

They are all laser cut now? I thought most were still hand cut?

Hand cut at rock bottom prices? Machines, bro.

But if it is being made in China anyways, does it matter? Seems like hand cut seems cheaper option at some point if you aren't hiring the best tailors.

Like Indochino, I believe they send theirs to china and quality is subpar since they likely do not get the greatest tailors over there? This may not be the case today since their business has grown but it wouldn't surprise me to see somewhat like a shoe factory type of mtm suit production overseas.

Quality can also be cheap and be of good quality for handmade pieces, thinking of ToJ. I believe their leathers are still all made by hand one at a time, I don't think Drew has a laser contraption pattern cutting for every job and he manages to provide a good product at a very good price still?

I really don't know, I'm just thinking here.

 

[wj4]

But if it is being made in China anyways, does it matter? Seems like hand cut seems cheaper option at some point if you aren't hiring the best tailors.

Like Indochino, I believe they send theirs to china and quality is subpar since they likely do not get the greatest tailors over there? This may not be the case today since their business has grown but it wouldn't surprise me to see somewhat like a shoe factory type of mtm suit production overseas.

Quality can also be cheap and be of good quality for handmade pieces, thinking of ToJ. I believe their leathers are still all made by hand one at a time, I don't think Drew has a laser contraption pattern cutting for every job and he manages to provide a good product at a very good price still?

I really don't know, I'm just thinking here.

You act like there are no skilled folks capable of world class tailoring in China, man. It's the reverse BS of the whole "made in Italy" nonsense...as if there aren't Chinese immigrants working in slave like conditions in Italy and everything coming out of that country is top notch.

Half of the fashion forward garb are made in developing countries due to the low wages

Indochino sells cheap suits. They have their business plan, and attract a certain demographic. The same goes for The Armoury in Hong Kong...obviously college kids and even most middle class folks can't afford their stuff.

I'm not really sure what your point was to be honest in your post, you were all over the place. I'm just typing as I read your post

 

[wj4]

Pretty neat: http://www.styleforum.net/t/351093/yellow-hook-necktie-co-an-insiders-look

 

[rfx45]

You act like there are no skilled folks capable of world class tailoring in China, man.

Did not mean that at all, I said they probably aren't hiring the best tailors, obviously that meant there are some great tailors there, I believe TaT outsource their suits there and I am a big TaT fan. I used to follow Phat Guidos blog and always enjoyed when he used to post in SF. But as you said, at "rock bottom prices", they have to do cut backs and China is probably the best place to outsource anything from to get the most of your your buck.

Do not take it personally or as an insult, all I meant was for $500 a suit you probably aren't getting the most skilled tailor to make it.

None in my post did I say there are no capable or great tailors in China, the line you underlined is to say that if outsourced there, would it really matter if they are hand cut because there are cheap sources there.

No need to up other stuff that isn't even part of the conversation like products being labeled Made in Italy when they only had one part of the making process done there. No need to open up that can of worms because you are just reaching a bit. Don't rope it up here because that wasn't the point.


My point? You said:

Hand cut at rock bottom prices? Machines, bro.

I'll re-iterate, if it were made in China where you can probably have a suit made for a very, very cheap price, would it matter if it is hand cut if they hire a less than skilled tailor? If it is still cheaper and reasonable to still have some sweatshop laborer to cut the suit sew it up than paying/buying a laser cutting machine, then why not? I am sure this is not far fetch. Of course that will be up to the demand and diminishing returns of a group of laborer versus the machine but yeah I can see it working either way.

I brought up Indochino (yes I knwo they have a business plan) because it is a good example, outsourced in China (I think, not sure if it is still outsourced from there), very cheap (they can even afford to have them at 50% off at times). Now I am not sure if they're machine cut or hand cut but I am pretty sure at those prices they aren't hiring the best tailors (again not to say there aren't any great tailors in China) and it gets no hate from me but from all the complaints I've seen from almost everyone that purchased, I am not surprised. I don't knock them for what they have done and the products they offer, they do not affect me directly and have considered them in the past.

My other point is that at rock bottom prices, you can still churn out good to great products w/o machines, like my example with ToJ. Your post seems to imply that at rock bottom prices, it has to be made/cut by a machine but that isn't true if your resources are found at the right price and eliminate some middle men, a brick and mortar store, etc...

 

[wj4]

Did not mean that at all, I said they probably aren't hiring the best tailors, obviously that meant there are some great tailors there, I believe TaT outsource their suits there and I am a big TaT fan. I used to follow Phat Guidos blog and always enjoyed when he used to post in SF. But as you said, at "rock bottom prices", they have to do cut backs and China is probably the best place to outsource anything from to get the most of your your buck.

Do not take it personally or as an insult, all I meant was for $500 a suit you probably aren't getting the most skilled tailor to make it.

None in my post did I say there are no capable or great tailors in China, the line you underlined is to say that if outsourced there, would it really matter if they are hand cut because there are cheap sources there.

No need to up other stuff that isn't even part of the conversation like products being labeled Made in Italy when they only had one part of the making process done there. No need to open up that can of worms because you are just reaching a bit. Don't rope it up here because that wasn't the point.


My point? You said:
I'll re-iterate, if it were made in China where you can probably have a suit made for a very, very cheap price, would it matter if it is hand cut if they hire a less than skilled tailor? If it is still cheaper and reasonable to still have some sweatshop laborer to cut the suit sew it up than paying/buying a laser cutting machine, then why not? I am sure this is not far fetch. Of course that will be up to the demand and diminishing returns of a group of laborer versus the machine but yeah I can see it working either way.

I brought up Indochino (yes I knwo they have a business plan) because it is a good example, outsourced in China (I think, not sure if it is still outsourced from there), very cheap (they can even afford to have them at 50% off at times). Now I am not sure if they're machine cut or hand cut but I am pretty sure at those prices they aren't hiring the best tailors (again not to say there aren't any great tailors in China) and it gets no hate from me but from all the complaints I've seen from almost everyone that purchased, I am not surprised. I don't knock them for what they have done and the products they offer, they do not affect me directly and have considered them in the past.

My other point is that at rock bottom prices, you can still churn out good to great products w/o machines, like my example with ToJ. Your post seems to imply that at rock bottom prices, it has to be made/cut by a machine but that isn't true if your resources are found at the right price and eliminate some middle men, a brick and mortar store, etc...

It's a messageboard, man. I'd be a fool to get worked up about this

There's no doubt sacrifices will be made for a $500 suit. When Jason launched TaT back in '08 or so, cats were wondering how he was able to offer a fully canvassed suit at $500 then they found out it was made in China. You're not going to get the same details as a bespoke one that costs 10 times. China is not even the best place to outsource to anymore due to the recent Westernization. It's somewhere in the Middle East now where labor is dirt cheap, makes China's labor look like the unions here in the USA.

I do agree that you can have quality at great prices. The hand on my TaT suits feel a lot better than the stuff sold at Barneys that retail for more than double.

ToJ is a unique example. They don't even have a real website, just a Tumblr blog and a Facebook page. The company is essentially Drew and two other guys. Overhead and payroll is minimum where as Indochino has a real website up, taking in orders on a bigger scale. ToJ doesn't have materials on hand too, they buy what's available on the market where as these suit companies have bolts and bolts of fabrics in stock. Their payroll is also bigger I'm sure.

Sorry if something doesn't read coherently. It's late and I'm just typing as I think

 

[rfx45]

It's all good, I'm just chillin with the ipad and a Stella in my hand.

ToJ is unique but it is still a good example I think, I believe TaT is the same way in that they pretty much buy the fabrics and offer those until it all sells. Part of Indochino is like that too, I think that is why they do their sales on certain colors/fabrics that doesn't move as quick.


I also remember watching How it's Made and some machines cut fabrics using a press like a cookie cutter to cut the shapes desired. That is likely a cheaper version in comparison to the laser machines.


Nike needs to makes some Flyknit suits!!!!




Ok that might be the Stella kicking in. |I

 

[unknwn]

Only way to solve this is a Wis vs. RFX fit battle.

 

[rfx45]

But can he handle....

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[rfx45]

[quote name="Jay-Z" ]

This is trouble season, time for tuxedos for no reason.

[/quote]

Navy!

 

[nikeairforce1]

dont be a snob dude

ain't nothing about being a snob

JC Penney suits are horrible quality and will not fit correctly most of the time.

someone try and prove me wrong though

I doubt that I'd buy one and I'd generally agree but how can you make a definitive statement like that so blindly? It is a little snobbish because you're just basing it on your opinion of JC Penney. First, some people can't afford much more than JC Penney an if that's the case, there's likely very little that'll fit well off the rack. Second, and more importantly, I think Ears posted a pic of himself in one that (I don't know if it was tailored or not) fit pretty damn well based on what he posted for a cheap JCP suit.

So you agree with what I said about JC Penney suits... Where's the disagreement here?

It's not my opinion of JC Penney. Their suits are low quality. FACT. Their suits will fit worse than say H&M (for the same price) for most people trying to dress better. I did see Ears' suit, and it fit pretty well (quality still more than subpar). That's why I said their suits won't fit correctly most of the time, not all of the time.

I would never recommend a suit from JC Penney unless it was for a kid or something.

Again, where is the disagreement? Is there anything wrong with what I said?

 

[1stwitit]

Nikeairforce1 it's the way you came across with what you're saying. Everyone here has an opinion on different topics, but it's the way in which you go about expressing your opinion.

 

[scarsorscabs]

dont be a snob dude

ain't nothing about being a snob

JC Penney suits are horrible quality and will not fit correctly most of the time.

someone try and prove me wrong though

I doubt that I'd buy one and I'd generally agree but how can you make a definitive statement like that so blindly? It is a little snobbish because you're just basing it on your opinion of JC Penney. First, some people can't afford much more than JC Penney an if that's the case, there's likely very little that'll fit well off the rack. Second, and more importantly, I think Ears posted a pic of himself in one that (I don't know if it was tailored or not) fit pretty damn well based on what he posted for a cheap JCP suit.

So you agree with what I said about JC Penney suits... Where's the disagreement here?

It's not my opinion of JC Penney. Their suits are low quality. FACT. Their suits will fit worse than say H&M (for the same price) for most people trying to dress better. I did see Ears' suit, and it fit pretty well (quality still more than subpar). That's why I said their suits won't fit correctly most of the time, not all of the time.

I would never recommend a suit from JC Penney unless it was for a kid or something.

Again, where is the disagreement? Is there anything wrong with what I said?

So if someone is in need of a suit but can only afford to spend $100, you automatically dismiss anything from JC Penney just because? What I agree with, to an extent, is that most of the suits from there probably aren't great quality and likely won't fit correctly off the rack most of the time...there are also plenty of suits that are 3+x more expensive that I think are crap in terms of quality and fit. I just don't agree with dismissing them as if it's a problem that someone recommended a suit from there (I must've missed it, it may have been when Ears posted his) because just based off of what Ears posted, it looked like it fit pretty well and once again, if someone has a really limited budget, I don't see the issue. Not everyone can afford a good suit and there are a ton of better options out there if money isn't a concern but if someone can't spend much and they come out looking like Ears did in his suit from JC Penney, I don't see wht's wrong with the recommendation.

 

[sarteaga0408]

So if someone is in need of a suit but can only afford to spend $100, you automatically dismiss anything from JC Penney just because? What I agree with, to an extent, is that most of the suits from there probably aren't great quality and likely won't fit correctly off the rack most of the time...there are also plenty of suits that are 3+x more expensive that I think are crap in terms of quality and fit. I just don't agree with dismissing them as if it's a problem that someone recommended a suit from there (I must've missed it, it may have been when Ears posted his) because just based off of what Ears posted, it looked like it fit pretty well and once again, if someone has a really limited budget, I don't see the issue. Not everyone can afford a good suit and there are a ton of better options out there if money isn't a concern but if someone can't spend much and they come out looking like Ears did in his suit from JC Penney, I don't see wht's wrong with the recommendation.

Because he won't come out and say it but it's because his jab was at me. I frankly don't care, to be honest, I recommended at JCP suit to someone here for the exact reasons you guys have stated.

What you guys have said is exactly why people are making recommendations on the suits from JCP, not because they may be the best quality product out there but because it's something that someone can get today if need be and have it tailored for a few bucks and still feel that they didn't exactly spent a whole lot of money, got a suit they liked, that they will get use out of and they are happy with. Not everybody has a ballers budget, not everyone can go and afford to spend $500 on a suit, every single time.

 

[lyonbc1]

^^^Yep, a $130 suit that is tailored well is still >>>>>>>>>> a $700 better quality suit that doesn't.

95% of people can't even tell the difference in quality of suits, if it looks nice on you, then it looks nice...budget, short time frame, and a lot of other factors go into it....no need t laugh at people suggesting JCP suits, a lot of guys in here are recently graduated like me, or still in school, and can't really blow money on higher end suits.... fit is the most important thing with any suit/tux/clothes in general, which is why pretty much everyone recommends getting suits tailored OTR. It's not like a cheaper suit is gonna rip or melt if its out in the sunlight too long

 

[typerpinoy]

None of the suits I posted a few days ago cost more than $450 before tailoring. Some were less than $200