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HBO Michael Jackson doc 'Leaving Neverland'
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by Arthur Shelby,
- Start date
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Some questions
When is a good time to discuss someone molesting you when it pertains to Michael Jackson? At any point you would be criticized and not believed, because it is Michael Jackson. So I'm not quite understanding the why do it now question? Because you're an adult and finally feel strong enough and ready I assume.
Also what do molesters look like? Because I'm still trying to figure out why people are so sure he didn't do it. If all signs point to someone being a molester why would you still deny it?
When is a good time to discuss someone molesting you when it pertains to Michael Jackson? At any point you would be criticized and not believed, because it is Michael Jackson. So I'm not quite understanding the why do it now question? Because you're an adult and finally feel strong enough and ready I assume.
Also what do molesters look like? Because I'm still trying to figure out why people are so sure he didn't do it. If all signs point to someone being a molester why would you still deny it?
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I don't see why it's not okay to scrutinize a person while praising their artistry and body of work
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I'll never understand the "why now" questions in sexual assault cases, too low of a depth of intellectual dishonesty for me to get to.
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Yes he did.
You and anyone else who categorically denies this, is part of the problem.
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100% real. It's hung up in his crib in the 03 documentary
That guy has painted several other portraits of Mike with children that have these small unsettling details including random exposed buttocks and kids bending over and ****
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We all know Mike has issues but the pushback is because these two men have changed up their stories multiple times. They've been trying to sue for other reasons to get paid. There's a lot of holes in their stories. So their credibility is out the window.
Rape/Molestation is the worst thing in the world to me but what is right beside it is people lying and making **** up about being touched. Those people don't get punished because the topic is so serious.
This documentary was made for money and attention. This is the perfect climate to drop this and get away with this.
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Did you watch the doc? Because they explain why they testified on his behalf beforehand and it's pretty consistent with typical stories of sexual abuse.
You don't have to believe them but every talking point that's being copied and pasted in this thread by MJ defenders about "credibility" is addressed in the film.
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It has to be approached and analyzed case-by-case. To this day, it still hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that MJ committed the crimes he was accused of. All the conjecture is rooted in what's socially acceptable behavior and innuendo, and not necessarily what is being presented as facts in this situation. There are just way too many inconsistent statements and inaccurate "recollections" to say, without a doubt, dude is guilty. For example, if the accuser states that they can provide dates, locations and the individuals involved in the incident(s), only to be countered with paperwork, witnesses and photographic evidence undoubtably disproving their statements on SEVERAL occasions, there's the red flag. Wade says EVERYTIME he and Mike were together between a certain time period, he was abused. Ok. Roll back the clock to MJ's trial, and we hear testimony on the witness stand from his own mother that he and MJ were only actually together a handful of times, she was there with them, and never saw him do anything inappropriate with her son. Wade now says that Michael did things to him at certain places, providing times and dates...only to be countered by witness accounts that Mike wasn't even in the same country. Wade cliffs-noted a story of his alleged sexual abuse from an Anti-Michael Jackson website and used it in his deposition. This is what ultimately got their case against MJ's estate thrown out by the judge. People are free to believe what they want. It's up to these dudes to PROVE that these things happened. MJ was questioned, criticized, wiretapped, strip searched, and investigated several times by the most notorious police department in the free world AND the most thorough law enforcement organization, and nothing turned up. One things for sure. At some point, these two grown men lied, more-so under oath. That leaves a little bit of doubt in the minds of some people listening to what they're trying to sell now.
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For some people, It is possible to do both.
For some, it isn't .
That simple.
There is no right or wrong answer
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When people are say these guys switched up their stories are they talking about when the first two cases went to court, and they testified on the behalf of Michael?
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They have switched up their sides and they've switched up stories of what actually happened.
Then saying they probably wouldn't have done this if MJ was still alive. That's crazy to me.
The fact they've tried to sue multiple times is a huge red flag. Their body language is also an issue.
I'm not defending MJ but I got an issue with the men and their stories. We live in a day where people will believe anything they see on TV or IG and people will do anything for money or fame. I just don't believe them.
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Where does "multiple times" come from? As far as I can tell they sued once and it was not accepted due to the statute of limitations. That same suit is currently under appeal.
What other lawsuits have Safechuck and Robson filed against Michael Jackson and/or his estate?
And you are defending MJ lol
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I'm not defending MJ. I'm listening to his music whether he's guilty or innocent, I don't listen to his music because I think he was great guy. Artists personal lives has nothing to do with my speakers or my own life. I don't believe the men based on what I've read and seen. I got issues with that and other people claiming rape or sexual assault for fame and money.
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Ok, what other lawsuits have Safechuck and Robson filed against Michael Jackson and/or his estate tho?
If they've sued multiple times as you say then that's certainly damning to their credibility
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Can't argue with that, but one of the guys already has fame and money. I was already bias against these guys going in, but after watching the doc, I've done a 180. They had some receipts and the same stories from different kids made me believe there's some fire here.
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That's good to know, may just skip to that part and watch just that scene because of what it means to do that
didn't watch part 2, wife and I wanted to smash and this was not good viewing while we ate dinner beforehand
may never tune in again.
Not that hard for me to not listen to MJ anymore simply because it's not like I was playing him all day everyday. People get all mad only when you tell them they shouldn't be listening to this music or watching someones movies,but they never think of the other side of the coin. Like someone else said there is something crazy about how these dudes are recounting the events that happened, it really f****** with them man and thats sad. I understand some people on here took my first post as to place blame on the victims when really I wanted to make sure the victims are in some way healing themselves and moving on, because they will never get the full closure of facing MJ themselves. That was my concern, because during and after this airing their lives will be changed forever and I hope they make it, don't want to read that they are no longer with us.
I'm still only halfway through the first episode and that pushed me over the edge.
Think I'm done with MJ, I couldn't possibly blast someone's music that I'd have to say every time "He didn't touch those kids"
Same with R. Kelly
Same with the NFL
Same with Kanye
Same with Woody Allen and as a writer I F*******ING LOVE Midnight in Paris
Wonder what everyone's limit is(in general) to where who they like/love someone for what they do overrides what they were doing that is/was wrong
sometimes you gotta grow up realize they just as human as you are and some are worse
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What would be the difference, then, with you seemingly categorically affirming it? There’s far less evidence of him committing crime than there is to support it. Just don’t see the angle you’re going with.
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Saying he's "bonkers," "not all there," or "has issues" is an understatement to say the least. 
He preyed on children. That's the one demographic you lock up and throw away the key. They do not change. It's hard-wired in their brain chemistry.
He preyed on children. That's the one demographic you lock up and throw away the key. They do not change. It's hard-wired in their brain chemistry.
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Dudes really be like "OF COURSE Mike was bonkers and unusual and had deep seated psychological issues stemming from a childhood of trauma and abuse and OF COURSE he was a drug addict and yeah maybe he was a bit over the line in his infatuation with children and children's paraphernalia and OF COURSE I wouldn't let my kids sleep in the bed with him because that's inappropriate and OF COURSE I wouldn't let Mike call me at midnight asking me to bring my son over because he's lonely and OF COURSE I wouldn't accept MJ sending my son all these creepy faxes that read like love letters and OF COURSE if it was Mr. J down the block I would have been called the cops but MIKE AINT TOUCH THEM KIDS MAN"
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I'm really personally not understanding the "they're still in this for the money" conversation, so perhaps I need to be talked into that.
This entire situation is brutally ugly all the way around. But for that narrative to be the case, and Michael is being set-up by a conspiracy ring, we would need to assume these two accusers are okay with lying to the world they had gay acts done to them as children (this is not saying this to a therapist...this is literally saying this to the entire world). We would need to assume they are okay with entering a climate where hundreds/thousands of people are basically burning your name, destroying you on social media, making videos saying they want you to die. We would need to assume they are okay putting family members in front of a camera to lie for you, and also discuss your dad's death in front of that same camera. And you would have to assume the accusers would be okay with still talking about all this for another round - killing off potential job opportunities in the real world and also putting their new wives into this entire lie conspiracy.
Looking at this objectively that's a hell of a lot of things to take in in order to create a lie "for money." Or even for some sort of sick payback for Michael stopping hanging out with them.
Despite what Trump and the news tell us these days, the human condition for an accuser is not to make up lies that make you look this badly, this hated by your peers....while also sweeping in your beloved family, dead parents, new wives and innocent offspring.
This entire situation is brutally ugly all the way around. But for that narrative to be the case, and Michael is being set-up by a conspiracy ring, we would need to assume these two accusers are okay with lying to the world they had gay acts done to them as children (this is not saying this to a therapist...this is literally saying this to the entire world). We would need to assume they are okay with entering a climate where hundreds/thousands of people are basically burning your name, destroying you on social media, making videos saying they want you to die. We would need to assume they are okay putting family members in front of a camera to lie for you, and also discuss your dad's death in front of that same camera. And you would have to assume the accusers would be okay with still talking about all this for another round - killing off potential job opportunities in the real world and also putting their new wives into this entire lie conspiracy.
Looking at this objectively that's a hell of a lot of things to take in in order to create a lie "for money." Or even for some sort of sick payback for Michael stopping hanging out with them.
Despite what Trump and the news tell us these days, the human condition for an accuser is not to make up lies that make you look this badly, this hated by your peers....while also sweeping in your beloved family, dead parents, new wives and innocent offspring.
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To me after watching this documentary you can't say "he ain't touch those damn kids" because he literally always had a kid with him wherever he went. That is just too damn suspect. If you knew a dude and every time you run into him he's palling around with a different pre-teen boy you're telling me you're not thinking something is up. That leap isn't too hard to make. The only thing I can't say is the severity to which any rape or molestation happened, but there's no way nothing happened.
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You must have forgot theres lawsuits on appeal including a billion dollar one. You assume these people just want to live normal lives with normal jobs, maybe they’re ok with this being their lives now.
Remember, the first “victim” in the early 90’s was a little boy Jordan Chandler who only “remembered” things after his father administered a “truth serum” drug during a non routine dental procedure (just google it if you’re unfamiliar with the story). So its feasable for two grown *** men to run with false allegations, except they’re grown and can do it better.
Its hilarious people act like these accusers have nothing to gain when they’ve been trying to gain something for YEARS and I aint talking about dignity or pride.
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I have dated women who have been abused before and the level of detail these guys are recalling is suspect to say the least. Objectively there is some color commentary being added here.
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It's amazing how we look at certain lawsuits in this country with "something to gain."
We don't have a problem if a whistleblower who gets fired sues their company for major money. We don't have a problem with someone injured in a car wreck who was at no fault going after a driver. But we immediately go it's a money grab if someone who was sexually abused for years decides to take action any way they see fit. It's quite possible someone who was molested actually hires lawyers who recommend major lawsuits, and says to keep going even when first denied.
To spin this one other way I will ask this.... let's for the sake of argument just say what happened to those boys really happened. Let's just pretend everything was 100% real and MJ was in fact guilty of this and we had confirmation. What then is the proper thing that should be done concerning the victims? What action would be okay in our minds for them to take, in this specific case. It's a valid question no one wants to answer.
