Hip Hop, the Hidden Hand, Degradation of Black Masculinity

[thorrocksjs]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

the sugar hill gang. were like high school kids.Is this dude serious. He is grasping straws and using half truths.

What did he say about Sugar Hill again? Degrading their masculinity? I can't remember. Which part?

rappers delight was written by kids.He said that its music for kids well damb of course those dudes were young . He should make videos discussing how hip hop has evolved as a culture and the different lanes and what not..

 

[thorrocksjs]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

the sugar hill gang. were like high school kids.Is this dude serious. He is grasping straws and using half truths.

What did he say about Sugar Hill again? Degrading their masculinity? I can't remember. Which part?

rappers delight was written by kids.He said that its music for kids well damb of course those dudes were young . He should make videos discussing how hip hop has evolved as a culture and the different lanes and what not..

 

[kramer]

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

 

[kramer]

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right.

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings. Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right.

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings. Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through.

 

[kramer]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right.

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings. Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through.

Yeah I'm not arguing with you here just pointing some other things out. I'm sure being in that situation with all the media forcing things upon you would make you do alot of crazy things you would normally not do

 

[kramer]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right.

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings. Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through.

Yeah I'm not arguing with you here just pointing some other things out. I'm sure being in that situation with all the media forcing things upon you would make you do alot of crazy things you would normally not do

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Like when I think of folks agreeing to take certain "un-manly" pictures, I just wonder what is REALLY going on. A few that come to mind that I know these dudes wouldn't volunteer. I just can't think of anything other than some sort of blackmale situation going on here that these dudes feel powerless to say NO.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Like when I think of folks agreeing to take certain "un-manly" pictures, I just wonder what is REALLY going on. A few that come to mind that I know these dudes wouldn't volunteer. I just can't think of anything other than some sort of blackmale situation going on here that these dudes feel powerless to say NO.

 

[i am that dude]

those pictures are gay to you? That's what fashion has become, the whole European influence, not really great examples. LeBron's painted on white paints from GQ were suspect though, but again that's what people wear. Look at NTers like *names removed* who stay running around in painted on tight gear and their little brother's size !#* clothes and swear they are doing it.

 

[i am that dude]

those pictures are gay to you? That's what fashion has become, the whole European influence, not really great examples. LeBron's painted on white paints from GQ were suspect though, but again that's what people wear. Look at NTers like *names removed* who stay running around in painted on tight gear and their little brother's size !#* clothes and swear they are doing it.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

He is grasping straws and using half truths.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

He is grasping straws and using half truths.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I never said they were GAY. I just simply said they aren't traditional poses that someone of an extra-machismo based profession would normally take. I never said they were GAY. I know dress is more and more Euro influenced these days. But considering fashion trends aren't created by the civilians, is it safe to say the media are the ones who are the ones promoting these fashion trends. Well not the media but whoever is in control of what trends are in and out at the current time.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I never said they were GAY. I just simply said they aren't traditional poses that someone of an extra-machismo based profession would normally take. I never said they were GAY. I know dress is more and more Euro influenced these days. But considering fashion trends aren't created by the civilians, is it safe to say the media are the ones who are the ones promoting these fashion trends. Well not the media but whoever is in control of what trends are in and out at the current time.

 

[i am that dude]

Similar to this thread, just without the emphasis on black masculinity necessarily, is this speech by Ted Porter where he talks about "man box," and the illusion of what is considered manly, and the oppression of females in society using anecdotes from his own life.

It's a great watch, only about 10 minutes, but I figured it wouldn't go over well since NTers are always searching for LULZ and on their chauvinistic tip so I never bothered.

 

[i am that dude]

Similar to this thread, just without the emphasis on black masculinity necessarily, is this speech by Ted Porter where he talks about "man box," and the illusion of what is considered manly, and the oppression of females in society using anecdotes from his own life.

It's a great watch, only about 10 minutes, but I figured it wouldn't go over well since NTers are always searching for LULZ and on their chauvinistic tip so I never bothered.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I will watch it. Thanks man.

But the concept of gender is just so blurred. What are your thoughts on the whole idea of it. I know it is a socially constructed idea (much like race), but how exactly is a man "supposed" to act. Is there even a supposed in all of this? Same with women. It can't be natural that men act like men and women act like women. They have to learn from somewhere how boys and girls are supposed to act.

I wish there was a way we could see how people acted if they only had 1 other person in the world (opposite sex) to interact with. No media, no structures, just like an Adam and Eve situation. I would like to pay attention to mannerisms and roles. Would a man be the "dominant" figure even though he had no idea what gender dominance is.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I will watch it. Thanks man.

But the concept of gender is just so blurred. What are your thoughts on the whole idea of it. I know it is a socially constructed idea (much like race), but how exactly is a man "supposed" to act. Is there even a supposed in all of this? Same with women. It can't be natural that men act like men and women act like women. They have to learn from somewhere how boys and girls are supposed to act.

I wish there was a way we could see how people acted if they only had 1 other person in the world (opposite sex) to interact with. No media, no structures, just like an Adam and Eve situation. I would like to pay attention to mannerisms and roles. Would a man be the "dominant" figure even though he had no idea what gender dominance is.

 

[i am that dude]

That's somewhat what the video is about. I have always been around the Military life, which is more progressive than typical society, ie women leaders or even woman breadwinners (not the food, the money) and it seems absolutely normal to me. I can see the man potentially assuming dominance naturally in your vacuumed from society example just because of the physical aspect, but I don't have any qualms about completely obliterating gender lines and expectations entirely.

If I had a wife who was a big time lawyer or some other big time moneymaker, I would absolutely kick it out the house all day and cook and clean and not feel the least bit emasculated about it. Hell, I don't even like rap music really and almost all r'n'b and people give me +!@@ about it and IDGAF.

Obviously society has tons of double standards with regards to things like that. It's just a matter of people doing what please them individually until it becomes so common, the idea of what is normal and accepted begins to shift.

 

[i am that dude]

That's somewhat what the video is about. I have always been around the Military life, which is more progressive than typical society, ie women leaders or even woman breadwinners (not the food, the money) and it seems absolutely normal to me. I can see the man potentially assuming dominance naturally in your vacuumed from society example just because of the physical aspect, but I don't have any qualms about completely obliterating gender lines and expectations entirely.

If I had a wife who was a big time lawyer or some other big time moneymaker, I would absolutely kick it out the house all day and cook and clean and not feel the least bit emasculated about it. Hell, I don't even like rap music really and almost all r'n'b and people give me +!@@ about it and IDGAF.

Obviously society has tons of double standards with regards to things like that. It's just a matter of people doing what please them individually until it becomes so common, the idea of what is normal and accepted begins to shift.

 

[createdestroy]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right. False. If you look at early hiphop/funk they dress fruity as hell. Hiphop is going throught a degradation of masculity? really...?... how can hiphop be LESS masculine...yet misogyny is at an all time high in current lyrics. Drinking liquor, smoking weed,  while showing off your wealth with clothing, cars, and precious metals..while throwing money at women stripping and performing sex acts for you... (the stereotypical hiphop music video)

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. This is true of any industry that thrives on image. I think it's the opposite. I think gay and feminine males have to act more macho and masculine to make it in hiphop. 

 And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings.Give an example? because this is not true in hiphop. \

 Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through/tinfoil

 

[createdestroy]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Kramer

Honestly though, look at 80s rock bands. You could certainly say the same thing about them too denigrating their masculinity. And that Lebron clip in that one is from an SNL skit, it was supposed to just be funny

1. What Hip Hop is currently going through is what Rock went through back in the day. So you are right. False. If you look at early hiphop/funk they dress fruity as hell. Hiphop is going throught a degradation of masculity? really...?... how can hiphop be LESS masculine...yet misogyny is at an all time high in current lyrics. Drinking liquor, smoking weed,  while showing off your wealth with clothing, cars, and precious metals..while throwing money at women stripping and performing sex acts for you... (the stereotypical hiphop music video)

2. Yea the point he (and others) have made is that many men (not just black men) often times have to agree to do these acts that step out of the norm of their character. This is true of any industry that thrives on image. I think it's the opposite. I think gay and feminine males have to act more macho and masculine to make it in hiphop. 

 And a lot of these characters are either women or anti-heterosexual beings.Give an example? because this is not true in hiphop. \

 Yea it is meant to be funny but you honestly think these dudes really chose to put on these acts on their own? I don't think it is far-fetched to think that it is all part of some sort of ritual that these dudes have to go through/tinfoil

 

[createdestroy]

The whole "anti masculine conspiracy" crowd is similar to the "obama is a foreigner conspiracy" crowd.

One is driven by homophobia....the other by racism.