IRONY at its BEST.. vol. blacks and gay marraige. + digg!

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by boxer

intelligent debates aren't recommended on nt.


for the record i fail to see the irony. when it comes to the struggle for civil rights sexual orientation =/= race.

but discrimination is discrimination. You think women were screaming "we ain't black, we dont have the same struggle"?

 

[breakyaneck3000]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by Breakyaneck3000

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I see Lobo is still up to his "Religious people are idiots" agenda. Oh and don't forget "You mindless religious sheep take everything that book says as gospel", like He doesn't have a bible of his own. It may not be the "Holy Bible" but its you're gospel. You're guiding lights is a science book. It is what the lab coats put out there for you. Just like Men wrote our bible. Men wrote you're science book. Our book has rules that "discriminate". You're books could have been written to dis credit ours for the sake of wanting something different.

See Lobo, its all about what YOU subscribe to. Like I had to learn, people that don't agree with you aren't always wrong or idiots. They just happen to have a difference of opinion. No one is sure whats the truth. Its all speculation and faith. Just take the wait and see approach. We'll all see eventually what awaits us or if anything awaits us. So instead of name calling, how about respecting you're fellow man like you want people to respect gays and IYO their Human rights?

And NEWS FLASH. Just because people disagree or use the bible doesn't mean they hate gays. Well not all of us but don't label all of us like we are all guilty of the same crime.

Science is humans creating, expanding, evolving. Organized religion is population control, if you don't see this, you are the POPULATION. Science and Art are what moves the world forward. Religion and Politics/Government hold it backwards.

OK I'm a mindless religious sheep and you have the answer.

HAHA! Good luck finding the "answer"! Not everyone is fixated on life after death, some of us prefer to worry about life in the present. That meansthat "predicting" what happens after you die, shouldn't affect/interfere with what happens while you are alive.

 

[boxer]

Originally Posted by sn00pee

Originally Posted by boxer

intelligent debates aren't recommended on nt.


for the record i fail to see the irony. when it comes to the struggle for civil rights sexual orientation =/= race.

but discrimination is discrimination. You think women were screaming "we ain't black, we dont have the same struggle"?

yes, discrimination is discrimination, did i ever say it wasn't? i said i fail to see the irony in the picture.

i would say gender isn't equivalent to sexuality either, but you would probably just come back talking about transgendered people.


fact of the matter is when blacks and women were more discriminated against it was a lot more out in the open and in your face (blacks faced more than women byfar in my opinion). it wasn't just in outdated legislation. and if you fail to understand, can you tell if a person is gay just by looking at them ortalking to them about something other than their sexuality? because last i checked you couldn't unless they were outwardly advertising there sexuality. iwon't say flamboyant or effeminate for men or butch for women because there are straight folks that act like that too. whereas for blacks in particularjust the color of their skin led to all kinds of discrimination.


if anything can be taken from the picture it is ignorance. bringing a child to a protest to wave a sign for a cause they don't yet understand is ignorant.

 

[kingof3rdstrike]

Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

Humm so gays are being segregated in public schools, lynched & persecuted for living in mostly white neighborhoods, being told that they have to eat behind the restaurant or told to sit at the back of the bus.

This argument is so ridiculous it just makes the gay community look petty and stupid. Gays in 2008 have way more rights than Blacks in the 1950's. Being gay is a lifestyle & mindset, being a certain racial background is permanent.

Guess which candidate was elected overwhelmingly by the gay community Barack Obama , someone that believes in traditional marriage so i'm not buying the s--- their selling.

real !*@+ right here i knew there where smart people on nt lol

 

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by boxer

yes, discrimination is discrimination, did i ever say it wasn't? i said i fail to see the irony in the picture.

i would say gender isn't equivalent to sexuality either, but you would probably just come back talking about transgendered people.


fact of the matter is when blacks and women were more discriminated against it was a lot more out in the open and in your face (blacks faced more than women by far in my opinion). it wasn't just in outdated legislation. and if you fail to understand, can you tell if a person is gay just by looking at them or talking to them about something other than their sexuality? because last i checked you couldn't unless they were outwardly advertising there sexuality. i won't say flamboyant or effeminate for men or butch for women because there are straight folks that act like that too. whereas for blacks in particular just the color of their skin led to all kinds of discrimination.


if anything can be taken from the picture it is ignorance. bringing a child to a protest to wave a sign for a cause they don't yet understand is ignorant.

yes, gays can essentially "hide" their gayness, but what does that have to do with anything? There are still incidents were gays areharmed/verbally abused/killed because they are gay.

 

[boxer]

i am not going to argue with you sn00pee. obviously we won't get anywhere. all i can reiterate is.

Originally Posted by boxer

if anything can be taken from the picture it is ignorance. bringing a child to a protest to wave a sign for a cause they don't yet understand is ignorant.

 

[duba169]

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote wastaken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

 

[lobotomybeats]

The calls in here for gays to not be flamboyant is disgusting! 'Be you, I just don't want to see it.'

 

[joseph camel jr]

Why do people in here keep saying how blacks suffered more, faced more discrimination, etc.?

For one, who cares? Because blacks suffered more, gays somehow aren't struggling?

How does this minimize the fact that gays are being marginalized and treated unfairly?

Your lack of sense is astounding.

 

[bowzer blitz]

I still don't get why this a big deal. People act like being gay just happened. Let them live and get the rights "straight" people have. Peoplesay marriage used to mean something quite frankly marriage never meant anything. People have been liars and disloyal since the beginning of time.

People talk about the separation between church and state but as soon as same sex marriage comes up people want to choose religion all of a sudden itsridiculous. Now comparing it to the civil rights movement maybe extreme due to this community not experiencing such harsh treatment but the flip flopping ofthe issue to cater to ones own beliefs is unnecessary.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

i was never arguing against or for prop 8, more just about how it's not a choice to be gay or straight, but i didn't know this. ididn't know they had rights TAKEN away.

 

[diego]

Originally Posted by M16

They already got almost everything with "civil unions" I don't see why they have to get married officially now to.

Personally, I'm against any legal rights being given to them. I see it as rewarding and encouraging completely unacceptable behavior.

My mommy told me not to argue with a fool, because from a distance you cant tell who is the fool.
Not to call you a fool or anything, but its hard to argue with a person who thinks like this.

 

[roc boy jada]

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

Originally Posted by JsindaA

2 things and I'm gone

1) This wouldn't be such an issue if gays weren't so flamboyant about it. Like yeah alot of people would find it disgusting regardless but of course people will "discriminate" when you make it so blatantly obvious. Sexual preference doesn't mean you have to go around acting like a female and vice versa for women. The way I see it...Gays want to be extra flamboyant and have people accept that...which will NEVER happen.

2) No kid is born with a sexual preference. No kid chooses a sexual preference. WAY too many factors impact children on how they will act during their life.

That is all

I don't mean this in an attacking way, but that first statement is stupid.

It is.

If you know they're going to be discriminated against regardless, why try to argue that their flamboyancy is to blame?

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

The calls in here for gays to not be flamboyant is disgusting! 'Be you, I just don't want to see it.'

Exactly. If that's what they're comfortable with, I don't see the problem.

 

[DeadsetAce]

double standards and hypocrisy FTL....

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

I see Lobo is still up to his "Religious people are idiots" agenda. Oh and don't forget "You mindless religious sheep take everything that book says as gospel", like He doesn't have a bible of his own. It may not be the "Holy Bible" but its you're gospel. You're guiding lights is a science book. It is what the lab coats put out there for you. Just like Men wrote our bible. Men wrote you're science book. Our book has rules that "discriminate". You're books could have been written to dis credit ours for the sake of wanting something different.

See Lobo, its all about what YOU subscribe to. Like I had to learn, people that don't agree with you aren't always wrong or idiots. They just happen to have a difference of opinion. No one is sure whats the truth. Its all speculation and faith. Just take the wait and see approach. We'll all see eventually what awaits us or if anything awaits us. So instead of name calling, how about respecting you're fellow man like you want people to respect gays and IYO their Human rights?

And NEWS FLASH. Just because people disagree or use the bible doesn't mean they hate gays. Well not all of us but don't label all of us like we are all guilty of the same crime.

Again with the 'you have your bible too' argument? I don't know why, but for some reason I expect more from you. I understand youconsider yourself new to the whole religion thing, but come on!

I laugh when people say 'you have your own bible too' and 'you have faith in scientist' because it shows how little ammo you have in your gun.That's what you use to debate Science? We both have faith? Please. You know what the difference between Science and Religion? Science is always working toevolve Science. (I know some in here may not know what evolution is) A success in Science a lot of times calls for discrediting pasts Sciences. Science isconstantly updating and searching. Your claims that Science books could have "been written to discredit ours for the sake of wanting somethingdifferent" are weak at best. Science isn't trying to disprove Religion. Religion is just one casualty of rational thought and Science....not that youcould ever convince the deeply religious. When you say %%$@ like "science was written to discredit ours for the sake of wanting something different"you do your cause disservice. Stand on your legs and tout why Religion isn't false. Don't play the "Science is just trying to bring us down"card. Science isn't. It just does. Ever wonder why there is never a Breaking News report of "Scientific studies suggest that God made the Universe.More at Eleven"? If religion used the same rules and principles as Science, the bible would have been chucked out long ago. There is no furthering orevolving of religion, just weak attempts at justifying and rationalizing it. The difference between humans and the rest of the mammals is the ability toreason. By investing in religion you either plot on with incredulity or you surrender your ability to reason at the door. I cannot.


You honestly can't tell me that you'd read a book that started so erroneously as the bible does. If you opened a non-fiction book that started out'She was born in California, just east of the Mississippi' you'd put it down because it was wrong. But no. The same book that claims that a babywas born from a surrogate in the name of god, a boat held every species of animal harmoniously, a talking burning bush, the world was created in 7 days, a guyhealed the blind but didn't cure blindness and a myriad of other Dungeons and Dragons mystical nonsense cannot be considered the equivalent of the work ofScientist.

I am not saying you are a mindless sheep. I just think you don't know better. You for some reason have a reason to believe your need to not reason.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

taking away rights based on sexual orientation? to me that's not different than taking away rights based on race....ohhhh it's differentright, because people cant choose their race but they can choose their sexual orientation...riiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by M16

They already got almost everything with "civil unions" I don't see why they have to get married officially now to.

Personally, I'm against any legal rights being given to them. I see it as rewarding and encouraging completely unacceptable behavior.

My mommy told me not to argue with a fool, because from a distance you cant tell who is the fool.
Not to call you a fool or anything, but its hard to argue with a person who thinks like this.

Dude said "rewarding"

Who exactly is "rewarding" them? You?

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

taking away rights based on sexual orientation? to me that's not different than taking away rights based on race....ohhhh it's different right, because people cant choose their race but they can choose their sexual orientation...riiiiiiiiiiiiight

MARRIAGE IS NOT A RIGHT! Do yall know what INALIENABLE RIGHTS are? It has NOTHING to do with marriage.

Show me how marriage is a right? Have yall ever read the Constitution or do you just want to add things to it as you go? Heterosexual marriage isn't aright either.

 

[the fame]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

taking away rights based on sexual orientation? to me that's not different than taking away rights based on race....ohhhh it's different right, because people cant choose their race but they can choose their sexual orientation...riiiiiiiiiiiiight

Im sorry but I aint believing that whole people are born gay theory.
If anything society and the way your raised may determine your sexual preference.
Naturally I believe a Man and a Woman are meant to be. But I have seen males who have grown up with all sisters any many females who have been used or rejectedby men and decide that would prefer the other sex. Just taking a poll....How many of yall in this thread have been born gay?

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

taking away rights based on sexual orientation? to me that's not different than taking away rights based on race....ohhhh it's different right, because people cant choose their race but they can choose their sexual orientation...riiiiiiiiiiiiight

MARRIAGE IS NOT A RIGHT! Do yall know what INALIENABLE RIGHTS are? It has NOTHING to do with marriage.

Show me how marriage is a right? Have yall ever read the Constitution or do you just want to add things to it as you go? Heterosexual marriage isn't a right either.

yeah but taking away the ability to get married and some of the benefits associated with marriage hinders their right to the pursuit ofhappiness...i THINK that's the argument many are making for them.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by THE FAME

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by DubA169

all of you arguing over gay marrige don't even understand the underlying problem with prop 8

a majority took a vote to take rights away from a minority. Gay marriage was already on the books in cali. Then a vote was taken and rights were taken away. That's what we should be worried about.

Wait a minute. You do know that the PEOPLE have the power in this Republic, right? The people have the right to vote to repeal anything.

taking away rights based on sexual orientation? to me that's not different than taking away rights based on race....ohhhh it's different right, because people cant choose their race but they can choose their sexual orientation...riiiiiiiiiiiiight

Im sorry but I aint believing that whole people are born gay theory.
If anything society and the way your raised may determine your sexual preference.
Naturally I believe a Man and a Woman are meant to be. But I have seen males who may have
grown up with all sisters or many girls who have been used or rejected by men and decide that would prefer the other sex.

whether you're born that way or you "become" that way due to your surroundings really doesn't matter because the bottom line isyou CANNOT CHOOSE to be straight or gay. you have no control over it. children cannot control how they're raised or what environment they're brought upin...so how can they expect to control whether or not they're attracted to dudes or chicks if they're environment is affecting their sexuality, as youbelieve? and i will say i definitely partly agree with you, it definitely has an affect.

 

[incredibleev]

I agree with your overall argument Deadset, but Im not rocking with the fact that gay people don't choose to be gay. The point of it all is that yes theychoose to live however they want to live, and nobody should give a +##% about that.

Whether you believe it or not, people CHOOSE to be straight. I guess its more of a subconscious thing since it happens pretty early on, but even still its notan innate thing like whether you are righty or lefty or something.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by IncredibleEv

I agree with your overall argument Deadset, but Im not rocking with the fact that gay people don't choose to be gay. The point of it all is that yes they choose to live however they want to live, and nobody should give a +##% about that.

Whether you believe it or not, people CHOOSE to be straight. I guess its more of a subconscious thing since it happens pretty early on, but even still its not an innate thing like whether you are righty or lefty or something.

i mean you can choose to accept it or reject it. a gay person could sleep with members of the opposite sex just to avoid ridicule or whatever, butthat doesn't make them straight. it just makes them a conformist or whatever the right word is.

 

[joseph camel jr]

Even if you COULD choose to be gay or straight, why would it matter? Marriage between consenting adults should not be questioned.

But I agree, it seems pretty dumb in this day and age to argue that being gay is a choice.