dsquare
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Are you saying that Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Michael Jordan is not as complete as Lebron ?
John Salley On Michael Jordan! "He's Not The Greatest Player Ever"
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by ironchef,
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shoeking2101
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Well let's see...
Do any of those guys routinely guard 5 positions?
Do any of those guys put up 30 8 & 8 on 50% on the regular?
Do any of those guys score as well as Lebron and create for their teammates as well as Lebron? (together, not separately)
They all can make a case in a few areas, but when you bring it all together, none of them are as complete as Lebron is. Fact.
(Magic could not score as well as Lebron, nor defend as well as lebron. Same as Larry )
Michael is the closest, however, he too falls short of Lebron. Michael does not possess the physical gifts that Lebron has, which aids in why Lebron defends so well. Michael can't defend as well as Lebron IMO, although Black Cat is awesome. Plain and simple, he isn't as big, fast, or strong as Lebron on that end. He also doesn't create for his teammates as well as Lebron.
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The hell with this Lebron talk son....y'all and John Salley need to leave the bath Salts alone little kids talking reckless don't disrespect the GOAT if you wasn't old enough to see him play dead this convo crazy how y'all talk sometimes sounding like sportscenter better yet first take y'all watch too much of it :smh
dsquare
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Michael Jordan 88-89
32 8 & 8 2.9 stl 15 triple doubles and 53% shooting... starting PG in the same year 29 8 & 10 and allteam 1st defense
Larry Bird 86-87
28 9 & 7 5 triple doubles 53% shooting 91% free throw and 40% three point shooting
Magic Johnson 81-82
18 9 & 9 2.7 stl 53% shooting
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shoeking2101
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Either Support/state an argument or shut up. "leave the bath salts alone" instead of actually stating a contribution to this thread
but whatever. You not even boxing, you just putting Jordan on a high horse and not acknowledging the points being made. I don't watch sportscenter at all or First take btw. NBA TV when I watch tv (and that's not often.)
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Son how Old are you...all you Lebron Stan's just started talking reckless when the kid finally gets a chip...MJ is the GOAT don't disrespect that it's as simple as that whatever drugs John Salley was on it must of worked, support/state foh if you knew basketball you wouldnt be here wasting your time talking about this non sense obviously Salley needs some TV time since he aint on vh1 anymore sorry f****he been a benchwarmer....Lebron Kobe or who tf ever is not in the same breath as MJ stop the foolery.....Men Lie Woman Lie but Numbers don't!!! Get at me!
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shoeking2101
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While this holds merit, they didn't do it for 9 seasons and counting. Those are good years, great years even (sans Magic, that completely proves my point.) however with the exception of Jordan, Magic and Bird are playing with Hall of Famers, Lebron is not (except for the last two seasons) which imo makes his career thus far that much more incredible.
Are you going to prove why Jordan is a Better Player (Not who has the greatest career or most achievements) than Lebron or not?
All this "You too young" and "Don't disrespect Jordan it's as simple as that" is just plain Laughable
you're not even backing up The God, you're just saying to not disrespect him. (Which i'm not btw, i'm simply pointing out that Lebron is the better PLAYER)Now answer these questions I posted in the previous post and come at me champ:
o any of those guys routinely guard 5 positions?
Do any of those guys put up 30 8 & 8 on 50% on the regular?
Do any of those guys score as well as Lebron and create for their teammates as well as Lebron? (together, not separately)
They all can make a case in a few areas, but when you bring it all together, none of them are as complete as Lebron is. Fact.
(Magic could not score as well as Lebron, nor defend as well as lebron. Same as Larry )
Michael is the closest, however, he too falls short of Lebron. Michael does not possess the physical gifts that Lebron has, which aids in why Lebron defends so well. Michael can't defend as well as Lebron IMO, although Black Cat is awesome. Plain and simple, he isn't as big, fast, or strong as Lebron on that end. He also doesn't create for his teammates as well as Lebron.
shoeking2101
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Shoutout DSquare for actually posting a rebuttal instead of just dismissing it.
dsquare
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Granted LeBron is one of if not the most talented player that the NBA has ever seen, I personally think he is the best player in the NBA since Jordan, however I think he still has a ways to go. Jordan in 86 vs Boston nearly single handedly beat on of the greatest teams ever on their home court scoring 63 pts along with passing for 6 ast and after scoring 49 the previous game. Jordan hit the game winner vs the Cavs in 89 in which had he missed that shot season over for the Bulls, he was also 6/6 in the finals beating hall of fame talent players and really good teams during the the time and also coming through when it matters the most . Same also goes for Bird and Magic even thought they played on teams with hall of famers and good role players. For 7 seasons in the playoffs Larry Bird averaged 24 11 & 6 compared to Lebron's 28 8 & 6 average. Larry won 3 Mvp's in a row 1 of 3 to ever do so, and I believe if Larry did not play for the Celtics his number could have been even more mind blowing. And as for Magic one game that stands out is game 6 of the 1980 finals 42 15 & 7 and finals MVP as a rookie and Magic continued to led the Lakers to the finals after Kareem retired later on and averaging 21 & 12. LeBron puts up great numbers no doubt and he had a great season this year but I cant help but to think of the years when he came up short such as 2011 finals, the 2010 semis , 2009 conference finals. I think LeBron is the best of this era ( unless Durant proves otherwise ) and already one of the best but the greatest no.
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While this holds merit, they didn't do it for 9 seasons and counting. Those are good years, great years even (sans Magic, that completely proves my point.) however with the exception of Jordan, Magic and Bird are playing with Hall of Famers, Lebron is not (except for the last two seasons) which imo makes his career thus far that much more incredible.
Are you going to prove why Jordan is a Better Player (Not who has the greatest career or most achievements) than Lebron or not?
All this "You too young" and "Don't disrespect Jordan it's as simple as that" is just plain Laughable
Now answer these questions I posted in the previous post and come at me champ:
o any of those guys routinely guard 5 positions?
Do any of those guys put up 30 8 & 8 on 50% on the regular?
Do any of those guys score as well as Lebron and create for their teammates as well as Lebron? (together, not separately)
They all can make a case in a few areas, but when you bring it all together, none of them are as complete as Lebron is. Fact.
(Magic could not score as well as Lebron, nor defend as well as lebron. Same as Larry )
Michael is the closest, however, he too falls short of Lebron. Michael does not possess the physical gifts that Lebron has, which aids in why Lebron defends so well. Michael can't defend as well as Lebron IMO, although Black Cat is awesome. Plain and simple, he isn't as big, fast, or strong as Lebron on that end. He also doesn't create for his teammates as well as Lebron.
WTF you mad for? Media got you believing LBJ could step into the 90s and dominate. LOL
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Exactly. Although I disagree with Spider Salley, I do respect his expert opinion. And his play off the bench (along with Rodman) then eventually as a starter for the Pistions was big reason why they won those rings against the Lakers & Blazers. Also his contribution in the Pistons "Jordan Rules" defense is why the Bulls couldnt get past them till 91 (and when the Bulls finally did beat them, the only Pistons to not leave the floor early to shun them were Salley & Dumars).
I think Salley is wrong but I dont think its as outrageous and blasphemous as some are you reacting. Jordan's numbers dont lie but at the same time I think his high scoring seems to unfairly put him over other players who impacted the game without scoring as much. That's why I think LeBron COULD eventually be the g.o.a.t. if he achieves some more rings. Im not a fan but clearly LeBron is mix of Karl Malone, Magic & Jordan at this point and if he is able to adapt his game when his athletic ability starts to diminish then whose to say how much more great he can be.
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He more than likely would.
shoeking2101
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All valid points, points well taken. However, in your post you in essence, you just proved my point. Lebron, with not nearly the supporting cast that Magic and Larry were privileged to have, already 9 seasons in, has by the numbers performed better in the playoffs than those guys (sans Jordan). You even alluded to it in your post. And yes Lebron has had a few failures in the post season, but he also has quite a bit of triumphs that people forget as well. From game winners, to legendary scoring binges, he raises his game above and beyond what most in NBA history has when the post season comes around, and his performances & statistics support that. Show me a player who has won and performed great in every single post season...
In my previous post, I did point to the fact that I felt that Jordan was the closest to Lebron. I just feel that at the end of the day, pound for pound, there isn't a NBA player in the history of the League who controls a game in the manner that he does. Surely, if one were to bring Lebron James and all of his attributes into that era (Jordan against the C's in 86', Magic & Larry in the 80's) Lebron would probably put up some remarkable games and post some mind-boggling numbers as he's already doing that in Today's NBA.
I can't say the same for Larry Bird. Maybe for Magic, although I feel as though that because of his All-Star cast of players, we really didn't get to see how great (or not so great) of a scorer Magic Johnson was. Again, Neither Magic or Bird combined the attributes that Lebron James presently has. Scoring, rebounding, defending all 5 positions, etc. those two did not possess. They may have possessed some of those qualities, but not all and that is my point. That is why, even right now, 9 seasons in, I say Lebron James is better than those guys.
Due to Lebron's size and all the qualities that I have mentioned in previous post, I also have him as better than Jordan, however I can live with one saying Jordan was better. Black Cat is my guy, and i'm almost positive by the time Lebron retires he will further cement what I already feel is true right now.
And as for Durant...Durant does not do enough to even be thought of as possibly being the greatest one day...
shoeking2101
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Bruh I swear to you i'm not mad
I just got paid today, went shopping, and am getting ready for school, I am not mad, not in the least bit just participating in some healthy debate concerning the all-time greats of the L.
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im saying when the bulls finally beat the pistons in the playoffs the pistons team did a lebron at the end
tsmooth
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lebron getting 9 rings. first kat to do it big!
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Salley seems to be a Politician (flip-flop)
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saying Magic is better isn't a slight to MJ.
Saying Lebron already better than MJ? Get out of here.
Saying Lebron already better than MJ? Get out of here.
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xtapolapacetl
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I can mention many of these in favor of Kareem:
-More MVPs
-More all-star appearances
-More points, all time leading scorer
-More rebounds
-More assists
-4 more all-NBA second teams
-Made the playoffs 5 more times
Plus many more, and a much better college career.
@ you being super confident that "NEVER LOST IN THE FINALS" is some air-tight argument and mentioning it multiple times. Tim Duncan never lost in the finals either. And it's not even like he has one finals appearance, but four. Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell and Shaq all lost in the finals. So what exactly is the point you're trying to make, that Duncan is greater than every one of these players? Let's just say that MJ had in fact made the NBA finals in 1989, 1990 and 1995, but lost those finals. This would've had a NEGATIVE effect on his legacy and it's better than he was kicked out of the playoffs earlier???Jordan may be greater, but no one is touching Kareem's credentials.
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runningfishy
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damn this talk again.
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.Dre, what's with the large letters bruh? A simple bold would have sufficed. When talking about the little guys in the NBA, don't people commonly speak of Zeke, Tiny Archibald, Calvin Murphy, and AI? How does what he said not make sense? If you read correctly, I said it was something to that effect, which means when I paraphrased it, I didn't quote it verbatum. What's the problem? Can you please bless is with your vast knowledge O wise one, since you clearly were displeased with my interpretation of what was said. I swear some dudes needs to take a deep breath before they post
Well....if you noticed, I bolded, italicized and enlarged your first 3 sentences. Not just the part about him saying Zeke is the best little guard to play the game. So that aspect of it obviously wasn't the only thing I noticed. Perhaps I am not the one who needs to "read correctly" ?
Him stating that Zeke is the best little guard to ever play the game is damn near a fact in most people eyes....so it would have no credence on why he said what he said about MJ. Perhaps if he said the Vinnie Johnson was the greatest little guy ever then you MAY have had a point and even that would still be a stretch. The fact that he feels Zeke is the best has no bearing on it, as it is basically true. There are no parallels between the two.
Are you familiar with basketball? It was implied from his response that he has more loyalty to Zeke because he won his frist two rings with him. Naturally he wouldn't give MJ full credit due to the nature of Zeke and MJ's relationship. So why would his response be shocking to anyone? You coming at me like I was saying something from mars or something.
. His resposne shouldn't shock anyone. I'm exiting S&T forever. This **** is like bizarro land or something
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While this holds merit, they didn't do it for 9 seasons and counting. Those are good years, great years even (sans Magic, that completely proves my point.) however with the exception of Jordan, Magic and Bird are playing with Hall of Famers, Lebron is not (except for the last two seasons) which imo makes his career thus far that much more incredible.
Are you going to prove why Jordan is a Better Player (Not who has the greatest career or most achievements) than Lebron or not?
All this "You too young" and "Don't disrespect Jordan it's as simple as that" is just plain Laughable
Now answer these questions I posted in the previous post and come at me champ:
o any of those guys routinely guard 5 positions?
Do any of those guys put up 30 8 & 8 on 50% on the regular?
Do any of those guys score as well as Lebron and create for their teammates as well as Lebron? (together, not separately)
They all can make a case in a few areas, but when you bring it all together, none of them are as complete as Lebron is. Fact.
(Magic could not score as well as Lebron, nor defend as well as lebron. Same as Larry )
Michael is the closest, however, he too falls short of Lebron. Michael does not possess the physical gifts that Lebron has, which aids in why Lebron defends so well. Michael can't defend as well as Lebron IMO, although Black Cat is awesome. Plain and simple, he isn't as big, fast, or strong as Lebron on that end. He also doesn't create for his teammates as well as Lebron.
You obviously must be young...for you to say Jordan does not create for his teammates or win as much in the post season is pure ignorance, I'm gonna be nice to try and prove my point why MJ is the greatest, First of all ignore what Salley said he played for the Pistons we get that. Did MJ not change the Game?? Did MJ not go 6 for 6 in the Finals Perfect! 6 Finals MVP 3rd all time in points in History DPY....do I need to continue with the stats...Yeah we all know Lebron is a great player but c'mon the guy has only played 9yrs in the league and you sitting here talking about he better than MJ...I don't remember MJ getting swept in any finals or at least lose in one...I don't remember MJ trying to play together with Bird or Magic....I don't remember this League being this soft especially with opposing defenses. Yes Lebron is much bigger n faster n bullies his way to the rim I get that his career avg is 27 7 7 idk where u got that 30 8 8 stat from...Bron doesn't have that killer Instinct like Mike did...He doesn't score as great like Mike can...reb and assists Ill give you that...Mike was a pure assassin let the man earn it...ONE CHIP AIN'T GONNA CUTT IT!!!!!
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