NBA's Overt Technical Fouls. Will it hurt the Game?

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

I'm interested to see if anyone actually does AGREE it.
Hi.

Now let me start by saying that I don't agree with the rule according to how you guys are depicting it, like the refs are calling techs for all emotion, period. No. From what I've seen, they're calling techs this preseason for emotion displayed regarding disagreement with the officiating, whether the emotion/gesture is directed towards the ref or not.

And I'm in COMPLETE support of that.

I know the responses coming: "The NBA isn't a dictatorship and Stern isn't Hitler." No, but the NBAis a professional sports league, and it's unprofessional to act like a damn kid when the rules don't get enforced the way you want.

"So yu don't think the players have a right to complain about bad calls, ska?" Yes, I do... in the right way. Whining about it during the game is not the right way.

mr2cool80:

---

interested in the argument as to why it may be good. I trully can't see the justification of this rule.
Two reasons: it takes pressure off the refs (better allowing them to do their job more effectively), and it gives the basketball players more incentive to... I don't know... PLAY BASKETBALL. Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this poin in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

I'm interested to see if anyone actually does AGREE it.
Hi.

Now let me start by saying that I don't agree with the rule according to how you guys are depicting it, like the refs are calling techs for all emotion, period. No. From what I've seen, they're calling techs this preseason for emotion displayed regarding disagreement with the officiating, whether the emotion/gesture is directed towards the ref or not.

And I'm in COMPLETE support of that.

I know the responses coming: "The NBA isn't a dictatorship and Stern isn't Hitler." No, but the NBAis a professional sports league, and it's unprofessional to act like a damn kid when the rules don't get enforced the way you want.

"So yu don't think the players have a right to complain about bad calls, ska?" Yes, I do... in the right way. Whining about it during the game is not the right way.

mr2cool80:

---

interested in the argument as to why it may be good. I trully can't see the justification of this rule.
Two reasons: it takes pressure off the refs (better allowing them to do their job more effectively), and it gives the basketball players more incentive to... I don't know... PLAY BASKETBALL. Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this poin in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.

 

[krazy88s]

^ Somewhat agree. Since they cant talk about it during the game, when can they do it? In the post-game talks they'll get a hefty fine.

 

[krazy88s]

^ Somewhat agree. Since they cant talk about it during the game, when can they do it? In the post-game talks they'll get a hefty fine.

 

[murda he]

40% ska

60% what everyone else is saying, though..

 

[murda he]

40% ska

60% what everyone else is saying, though..

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

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Under the new rules, officials seem to be instructed to T-up anyone who complains too long or even gestures. That means body language, emotion, passion, along with everything we love about watching our favorite players get in the zone, could be called a technical foul. Could you imagine the flip side to this, if Michael Jordan was given a technical for the shrug, or if LeBrons picture taking fun with the rest of the Cleveland Cavaliers was called a technical foul?
The NFL would call LeBron's picture taking 'excessive celebration'; I haven't seen any techs called for 'excessive celebration.

Jordan's shrug? That was toward the sideline commentators; had nothing to do with the refs. According to what I've seen in the preseason, neither one of those would have been T'd up by the refs. If something like that were, I'd agree that it's gone too far.

All I'm in support of is the ridculous crying, carrying on, and hopping around like brats when a player disagrees with the officiating. I like it better how it is in MLB and international soccer. Don't mind the officials at all; you're better off pretending they're not even there. Worry about your 5 opponents, 4 teammates, and coach. Period. That's what I'd like to see down the road, maybe 3-4 yrs. from now.

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

Under the new rules, officials seem to be instructed to T-up anyone who complains too long or even gestures. That means body language, emotion, passion, along with everything we love about watching our favorite players get in the zone, could be called a technical foul. Could you imagine the flip side to this, if Michael Jordan was given a technical for the shrug, or if LeBrons picture taking fun with the rest of the Cleveland Cavaliers was called a technical foul?
The NFL would call LeBron's picture taking 'excessive celebration'; I haven't seen any techs called for 'excessive celebration.

Jordan's shrug? That was toward the sideline commentators; had nothing to do with the refs. According to what I've seen in the preseason, neither one of those would have been T'd up by the refs. If something like that were, I'd agree that it's gone too far.

All I'm in support of is the ridculous crying, carrying on, and hopping around like brats when a player disagrees with the officiating. I like it better how it is in MLB and international soccer. Don't mind the officials at all; you're better off pretending they're not even there. Worry about your 5 opponents, 4 teammates, and coach. Period. That's what I'd like to see down the road, maybe 3-4 yrs. from now.

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

KG made a quick exit from Tuesdays Boston Celtics game for talking a bit too much about a call that Jermaine ONeal received a technical foul on just seconds prior (his second in consecutive games). KGs second technical came from laughing at the absurdity of his first.
Sounds good to me. I got no beef with this if it went down the way you described it. Covertly showing the refs up is still showing the refs up, and that needs to stop.

mr2cool80:

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Reggie Evans and Grant Hill [got] tossed last week for patting each other on the backside in the Phoenix Suns versus Toronto Raptors game.
THAT, I will agree, was ridiculous to watch. Comletely out of line... but I like how Grant handled it. I am 100% positive that Grant complained about it behind closed doors, maybe the next day to a representative of the officials, maybe through an e-mail to Stern... but right there on the court? Nope. Not even a snicker. Just walked to the locker. He realized he's not going to change anything right then, so why bother carrying on?

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

KG made a quick exit from Tuesdays Boston Celtics game for talking a bit too much about a call that Jermaine ONeal received a technical foul on just seconds prior (his second in consecutive games). KGs second technical came from laughing at the absurdity of his first.
Sounds good to me. I got no beef with this if it went down the way you described it. Covertly showing the refs up is still showing the refs up, and that needs to stop.

mr2cool80:

---

Reggie Evans and Grant Hill [got] tossed last week for patting each other on the backside in the Phoenix Suns versus Toronto Raptors game.
THAT, I will agree, was ridiculous to watch. Comletely out of line... but I like how Grant handled it. I am 100% positive that Grant complained about it behind closed doors, maybe the next day to a representative of the officials, maybe through an e-mail to Stern... but right there on the court? Nope. Not even a snicker. Just walked to the locker. He realized he's not going to change anything right then, so why bother carrying on?

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

I mean I watched CDR from the bucks get a Tech last night because he was upset MOSTLY AT HIMSELF that he didn't get a call when was visible hacked by 2 wizards players going to the basket.
C'mon, man, be real. How can he be upset at himself for not getting a call? If he's upset at himself, it's for his own play. If he's he's upset at not getting a call, he's upset at the refs.

So if he was staying to himself in showing up the refs (like a batter cussing under his breath after a called strike 3), he's still showing up the refs, and I'm sick of seeing that manipulative crybaby crap. Like, are those grown men out there with families and homes and millions of dollars, or freaking 6-yr.-olds crying because it's bedtime and Toy Story 3 is on?

Nah, I got no problem with the situation you just described.

 

[darthska]

mr2cool80:

---

I mean I watched CDR from the bucks get a Tech last night because he was upset MOSTLY AT HIMSELF that he didn't get a call when was visible hacked by 2 wizards players going to the basket.
C'mon, man, be real. How can he be upset at himself for not getting a call? If he's upset at himself, it's for his own play. If he's he's upset at not getting a call, he's upset at the refs.

So if he was staying to himself in showing up the refs (like a batter cussing under his breath after a called strike 3), he's still showing up the refs, and I'm sick of seeing that manipulative crybaby crap. Like, are those grown men out there with families and homes and millions of dollars, or freaking 6-yr.-olds crying because it's bedtime and Toy Story 3 is on?

Nah, I got no problem with the situation you just described.

 

[mr2cool80]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

mr2cool80:

---

I'm interested to see if anyone actually does AGREE it.

Hi.

Now let me start by saying that I don't agree with the rule according to how you guys are depicting it, like the refs are calling techs for all emotion, period. No. From what I've seen, they're calling techs this preseason for emotion displayed regarding disagreement with the officiating, whether the emotion/gesture is directed towards the ref or not.

And I'm in COMPLETE support of that.

I know the responses coming: "The NBA isn't a dictatorship and Stern isn't Hitler." No, but the NBAis a professional sports league, and it's unprofessional to act like a damn kid when the rules don't get enforced the way you want.

"So yu don't think the players have a right to complain about bad calls, ska?" Yes, I do... in the right way. Whining about it during the game is not the right way.

mr2cool80:

---

interested in the argument as to why it may be good. I trully can't see the justification of this rule.
Two reasons: it takes pressure off the refs (better allowing them to do their job more effectively), and it gives the basketball players more incentive to... I don't know... PLAY BASKETBALL. Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this poin in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.
You formulate valid points and I can see when described how you've expressed the different levels where this rule is clearly warranted.. I for one am COMPLETELY for the opportunity to a)reduce the violent nature that occurs between players, coaches, fans and officials while on the court and b)allow the players to compete at a fair level while expressing not just their professionalism of playing basketball but more so their love of playing basketball without compromising the game. Yes, I agree that as they are contractually bound to perform at an acceptable level for their respective organization which renders them employed by said organization for a paycheck, I still can't understand some of the reasons for these Technical Fouls being called during these pre-season games. I think it's rather clear that the pre-season is a testing ground for how this rule will eventually be fully implemented and I do expect modifications after Stern reviews and makes changes where he see's fit.

23ska909red02 wrote:
Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this point in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.

^Without question however despite how I feel, I can definitely agree with that argument.

 

[bittersweet]

It was fine how it was before ... if you OD, you get a tech.

The problem I have though, is the fact that it seems as if Stern doesn't want to ACTUALLY fix the REAL problem, which is horrible foul calls.

He's kicking dirt under the rug for a quick fix, and also to not admit that the refs make horrible mistakes.

If he fixed the real problem, there would be way less "emotional outbursts".

The calls are seriously BS majority of the time.

 

[mr2cool80]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

mr2cool80:

---

I'm interested to see if anyone actually does AGREE it.

Hi.

Now let me start by saying that I don't agree with the rule according to how you guys are depicting it, like the refs are calling techs for all emotion, period. No. From what I've seen, they're calling techs this preseason for emotion displayed regarding disagreement with the officiating, whether the emotion/gesture is directed towards the ref or not.

And I'm in COMPLETE support of that.

I know the responses coming: "The NBA isn't a dictatorship and Stern isn't Hitler." No, but the NBAis a professional sports league, and it's unprofessional to act like a damn kid when the rules don't get enforced the way you want.

"So yu don't think the players have a right to complain about bad calls, ska?" Yes, I do... in the right way. Whining about it during the game is not the right way.

mr2cool80:

---

interested in the argument as to why it may be good. I trully can't see the justification of this rule.
Two reasons: it takes pressure off the refs (better allowing them to do their job more effectively), and it gives the basketball players more incentive to... I don't know... PLAY BASKETBALL. Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this poin in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.
You formulate valid points and I can see when described how you've expressed the different levels where this rule is clearly warranted.. I for one am COMPLETELY for the opportunity to a)reduce the violent nature that occurs between players, coaches, fans and officials while on the court and b)allow the players to compete at a fair level while expressing not just their professionalism of playing basketball but more so their love of playing basketball without compromising the game. Yes, I agree that as they are contractually bound to perform at an acceptable level for their respective organization which renders them employed by said organization for a paycheck, I still can't understand some of the reasons for these Technical Fouls being called during these pre-season games. I think it's rather clear that the pre-season is a testing ground for how this rule will eventually be fully implemented and I do expect modifications after Stern reviews and makes changes where he see's fit.

23ska909red02 wrote:
Say a guard feels he was fouled on a drive to the basket. The other team races the other way while he sits back with the baseline ref whining and flailing his arms. At this point in time, HE'S NOT DOING WHAT HE'S PAID TO DO. His team COULD be using his defense right now, but he has made his services unavailable.

^Without question however despite how I feel, I can definitely agree with that argument.

 

[bittersweet]

It was fine how it was before ... if you OD, you get a tech.

The problem I have though, is the fact that it seems as if Stern doesn't want to ACTUALLY fix the REAL problem, which is horrible foul calls.

He's kicking dirt under the rug for a quick fix, and also to not admit that the refs make horrible mistakes.

If he fixed the real problem, there would be way less "emotional outbursts".

The calls are seriously BS majority of the time.

 

[CP1708]

Get what you're sayin Ska, but I don't care one bit.  This tech stuff is a load of BS. 

I don't pay to see the refs, I pay to see the players.  And if the player waves an arm at a bad call and gets a tech, and that pisses him off, and then the other team sends a bum into the game to get in that guys ear over and over, and that leads to a shove here and there, and that's tech 2, and now that star is out of the game I paid to see, forget that. 

This game is just as much emotion as it is anything else.  I completely, totally get and understand a hatred for crying.  I wish they would all shut up too, but I can't have it both ways.  Jordan dunks on Ewing, and starts screaming at himself, pumping himself up, possible tech.  Finger wags Mutumbo, possible tech, stares harshly at a ref, tech, we're talking about an absolute all time competitor, being told to do, nothing.  No emotion, nothing.  Shoot, score, defend, do nothing else, do all that, with zero emotion.  While 20,000 people scream and groan with every single basket/steal/block/pass, dunk TONS of emotion, you 10 players on the court play like a robot. 

No.

No thank you. 

They either play like robots (which basically can limit some players, namely the greats that FEED off of emotion) or they play all out, everything they got, piss and vinegar, I hate you, the coach, my own team, everybody in the building, but @#$% all of you, I'M winning tonight and we have to deal with a stupid ref who just might be on the take anyways making ridiculous call after ridiculous call why?  BECAUSE OF THE EMOTION IN THE BUILDING.  You never seen a ref get caught up by the crowd and allow some things to happen that shouldn't?  Or the ref who doesn't care about the home team, he will stop play over and over just to show he's in charge?  It happens ALL THE TIME in the NBA.  Stern himself, is doing this off of emotion.  He sees a few instances he doesn't like, he calls his cartel together, let's screw the players over big time.  Let's really piss them off.  Wear a suit and tie to the game, AND act like robots.  Hell, I haven't even gotten yet to the idea that this just well could be a bargaining chip type deal for the upcoming lockout. 

It's all BS.  All by Hitler himself.  Given the choice between seeing guys crying like girls to refs, or seeing stars get thrown out of the game for caring, call me crazy, but I rather deal with the crying.  I'll live with that.  I won't live with Duncan getting called for his big eyed stare.  Or Nash and his palms up whaaaaaaaa?  Or Kobe slapping his hands together as he spins back, or KG growling.  And all of them risking getting tossed out cuz the idiot ref can't get a call right in the first place.  No.  I'm not havin that. 

 

[darthska]

AllenIversonFan01:

---

Jermaine O'Neal tried to slide under and draw a charge. He got called for the block and as he was getting helped up by his teammates he was smiling and got T'd up. No words said by him or nothing (that I saw, and they showed like 2 or 3 replays).
The way you described it, sounds good to me.

AllenIversonFan01:

---

I know players will get the treatment and then some players will be able to get away with running over and talking directly to a ref. Or flailing their arms around and pouting with no penalty.
We all know preferentia treatment exists everywhere, but 'preferential treatment' is a seperate issue. This issue is 'lack of professionalism regarding officiating'.

Neglecting to address one issue ('lack of professionalism regarding officiating') because another issue exists ('preferential treatment') is foolish. Tackle things one step at a time. Maybe 'preferential treatment' won't ever be tackled; maybe it's next on the agenda. Whatever the case, that shouldn't stop efforts to tackle other issues.

 

[CP1708]

Get what you're sayin Ska, but I don't care one bit.  This tech stuff is a load of BS. 

I don't pay to see the refs, I pay to see the players.  And if the player waves an arm at a bad call and gets a tech, and that pisses him off, and then the other team sends a bum into the game to get in that guys ear over and over, and that leads to a shove here and there, and that's tech 2, and now that star is out of the game I paid to see, forget that. 

This game is just as much emotion as it is anything else.  I completely, totally get and understand a hatred for crying.  I wish they would all shut up too, but I can't have it both ways.  Jordan dunks on Ewing, and starts screaming at himself, pumping himself up, possible tech.  Finger wags Mutumbo, possible tech, stares harshly at a ref, tech, we're talking about an absolute all time competitor, being told to do, nothing.  No emotion, nothing.  Shoot, score, defend, do nothing else, do all that, with zero emotion.  While 20,000 people scream and groan with every single basket/steal/block/pass, dunk TONS of emotion, you 10 players on the court play like a robot. 

No.

No thank you. 

They either play like robots (which basically can limit some players, namely the greats that FEED off of emotion) or they play all out, everything they got, piss and vinegar, I hate you, the coach, my own team, everybody in the building, but @#$% all of you, I'M winning tonight and we have to deal with a stupid ref who just might be on the take anyways making ridiculous call after ridiculous call why?  BECAUSE OF THE EMOTION IN THE BUILDING.  You never seen a ref get caught up by the crowd and allow some things to happen that shouldn't?  Or the ref who doesn't care about the home team, he will stop play over and over just to show he's in charge?  It happens ALL THE TIME in the NBA.  Stern himself, is doing this off of emotion.  He sees a few instances he doesn't like, he calls his cartel together, let's screw the players over big time.  Let's really piss them off.  Wear a suit and tie to the game, AND act like robots.  Hell, I haven't even gotten yet to the idea that this just well could be a bargaining chip type deal for the upcoming lockout. 

It's all BS.  All by Hitler himself.  Given the choice between seeing guys crying like girls to refs, or seeing stars get thrown out of the game for caring, call me crazy, but I rather deal with the crying.  I'll live with that.  I won't live with Duncan getting called for his big eyed stare.  Or Nash and his palms up whaaaaaaaa?  Or Kobe slapping his hands together as he spins back, or KG growling.  And all of them risking getting tossed out cuz the idiot ref can't get a call right in the first place.  No.  I'm not havin that. 

 

[darthska]

AllenIversonFan01:

---

Jermaine O'Neal tried to slide under and draw a charge. He got called for the block and as he was getting helped up by his teammates he was smiling and got T'd up. No words said by him or nothing (that I saw, and they showed like 2 or 3 replays).
The way you described it, sounds good to me.

AllenIversonFan01:

---

I know players will get the treatment and then some players will be able to get away with running over and talking directly to a ref. Or flailing their arms around and pouting with no penalty.
We all know preferentia treatment exists everywhere, but 'preferential treatment' is a seperate issue. This issue is 'lack of professionalism regarding officiating'.

Neglecting to address one issue ('lack of professionalism regarding officiating') because another issue exists ('preferential treatment') is foolish. Tackle things one step at a time. Maybe 'preferential treatment' won't ever be tackled; maybe it's next on the agenda. Whatever the case, that shouldn't stop efforts to tackle other issues.

 

[darthska]

Again, CP, I want to point out that I haven't seen any techs called thispreseason for emotion regarding the game. Jordan dunks on Ewing and screams in celebration... only to get a tech? I've seen NOHING this preseason that would suggest something like that would happen this season.

Motumbo's finger waving being called as technical fouls? First of all, let me say I disagree with that, but let me also remind you how he adjusted according to the rules. The rule was made 'No taunting', and I can ride with that; most of us play ball and can admit it's a VERY emotionally charged game. So what did Deke do? Stopped waving at the person he blocked and started waving his finger at the crowd or his own bench.

 

[darthska]

Again, CP, I want to point out that I haven't seen any techs called thispreseason for emotion regarding the game. Jordan dunks on Ewing and screams in celebration... only to get a tech? I've seen NOHING this preseason that would suggest something like that would happen this season.

Motumbo's finger waving being called as technical fouls? First of all, let me say I disagree with that, but let me also remind you how he adjusted according to the rules. The rule was made 'No taunting', and I can ride with that; most of us play ball and can admit it's a VERY emotionally charged game. So what did Deke do? Stopped waving at the person he blocked and started waving his finger at the crowd or his own bench.

 

[sooperhooper]

This is all about the referees. They complained to Stern about how they feel like they don't get enough respect and how players don't respect their calls, so stern enforced this rule.
I think it's going to go along the same lines as the 'no-flopping' rule- not very long. In a high tension game like the lakers vs celtics, it might turn into a free throw shooting contest.

 

[sooperhooper]

This is all about the referees. They complained to Stern about how they feel like they don't get enough respect and how players don't respect their calls, so stern enforced this rule.
I think it's going to go along the same lines as the 'no-flopping' rule- not very long. In a high tension game like the lakers vs celtics, it might turn into a free throw shooting contest.

 

[sundoobie]

Dumb rule. It's going to make the game longer. Games are going to be a foul shooting contest now and players we pay to watch are going to be handcuffed because they can't speak out or be emotional in the game. Plus these blind and stupid refs will end up whistling ridiculous ticky tack things and kill the flow of the game. I think it's stupid because it gives more power to these refs who we all know are crooks.