Obama presses for longer school years

[reener]

guy is buggin

 

[reener]

guy is buggin

 

[antonlavey]

I just wanna see more emphasis on science, mathematics and technology...America is slowly falling behind in these fields. Doesn't help that ignorant people think science is the devil.

 

[antonlavey]

I just wanna see more emphasis on science, mathematics and technology...America is slowly falling behind in these fields. Doesn't help that ignorant people think science is the devil.

 

[roc4life24]

i'm all for it. in the summer times kids need a physical break from day  to day minute stuff (bus,hallways,picked on,you know kid stuff 

) but the mental part needs developing in the summer time.

malcom gladwell (sp?) outliers book brought to my attention the japanese system . Before yall start saying no, first compare elements of our system to the countries that rank way ahead of us in math and science.

http://www.ericdigests.org/1997-4/daily.htm

Japanese students spend 240 days a year at school, 60 days more than their American counterparts

An interesting component of Japanese education is the thriving industry of "juku" and "yobiko," after school "cram schools," where approximately 60% of Japanese high school students go for supplemental lessons.

the more in classroom the better. if nothing it will force the slackers (students who could be doing better/need extra push) to step up tests scores and grades. i'd say thats more than 50% of students

 

[roc4life24]

i'm all for it. in the summer times kids need a physical break from day  to day minute stuff (bus,hallways,picked on,you know kid stuff 

) but the mental part needs developing in the summer time.

malcom gladwell (sp?) outliers book brought to my attention the japanese system . Before yall start saying no, first compare elements of our system to the countries that rank way ahead of us in math and science.

http://www.ericdigests.org/1997-4/daily.htm

Japanese students spend 240 days a year at school, 60 days more than their American counterparts

An interesting component of Japanese education is the thriving industry of "juku" and "yobiko," after school "cram schools," where approximately 60% of Japanese high school students go for supplemental lessons.

the more in classroom the better. if nothing it will force the slackers (students who could be doing better/need extra push) to step up tests scores and grades. i'd say thats more than 50% of students

 

[essential1]

There are many different things that need to be done...


I think a month extra is a good idea but not the most important thing... And I think it is stupid to add a full month before and after.. I think 2 weeks added on to beginning and 2 weeks added on to the end. Get the kids in August 25th and end right before 4th of July weekend...

But there are dozens of things that could be done and should be done before this... But this seems like the easiest to implement..

 

[essential1]

There are many different things that need to be done...


I think a month extra is a good idea but not the most important thing... And I think it is stupid to add a full month before and after.. I think 2 weeks added on to beginning and 2 weeks added on to the end. Get the kids in August 25th and end right before 4th of July weekend...

But there are dozens of things that could be done and should be done before this... But this seems like the easiest to implement..

 

[23kidd]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I just wanna see more emphasis on science, mathematics and technology...America is slowly falling behind in these fields. Doesn't help that ignorant people think science is the devil.

What about physical education? health? art? music? These areas are just as important as math and science.
Many kids now are obese/unhealthy, 15 year old girls having babies/catching diseases at a young age, WHY? because they have NO knowledge of what cholesterol, fat, etc is. Or maybe us teachers and parents act more seriously about sex at a young age, we wouldn't have this issue with kids with babies at 14-15 and so on. Maybe if we have more time with the kids, we could get through their heads and make them understand why these are very important subjects. First lets handle those serious situations and then move on to science, math, etc.

 

[23kidd]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I just wanna see more emphasis on science, mathematics and technology...America is slowly falling behind in these fields. Doesn't help that ignorant people think science is the devil.

What about physical education? health? art? music? These areas are just as important as math and science.
Many kids now are obese/unhealthy, 15 year old girls having babies/catching diseases at a young age, WHY? because they have NO knowledge of what cholesterol, fat, etc is. Or maybe us teachers and parents act more seriously about sex at a young age, we wouldn't have this issue with kids with babies at 14-15 and so on. Maybe if we have more time with the kids, we could get through their heads and make them understand why these are very important subjects. First lets handle those serious situations and then move on to science, math, etc.

 

[23kidd]

yuku

 

[23kidd]

yuku

 

[23kidd]

yuku

 

[23kidd]

yuku

 

[rashi]

I don't understand the logic here. The system sucks, there are a whole lot of bad teachers, both of which are admitted by the President and yet, you want the kids to attend a bad system taught by bad teachers longer? Ivy League schools are pumping out graduates who think like this?

"That month makes a difference," the president said. "It means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer. It's especially severe for poorer kids who may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities."

Obama said teachers and their profession should be more highly honored — as in China and some other countries, he said — and he said he wanted to work with the teachers' unions. But he also said that unions should not defend a status quo in which one-third of children are dropping out. He challenged them not to be resistant to change.


...Ohhh I see. Let me translate this for layman, "Since the Teacher's Union have heavily supported me through their lobby for years in hoping I would be in this position, I think that an extra month of pay to them is ok.  See, these people are special to me because they give me so much money in hopes I could get Congress to appropriate money to the Teacher's Unions and the States to give these same bad teachers a raise or bonuses for absolutely nothing. Disregard the fact the teachers in elementary through high school already make on average 40k-45k a year with all the benefits i.e. health care, pensions, retirement, ect., they only work 10 months out of the year and they receive more days off more than anyone else works a 9-5. Also, don't mind the study that was done recently as reported by the Washington Post that when teachers are offered up to a $15,000 bonus there is not a difference in the kids academic performance"



[h1][/h1]

[h1]Study undercuts teacher bonuses[/h1][table][tr][td]
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By Nick Anderson
Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Offering teachers incentives of up to $15,000 to improve student test scores produced no discernible difference in academic performance, according to a study released Tuesday, a result likely to reshape the debate about merit pay programs sprouting in D.C. schools and many others nationwide.

The study, which the authors and other experts described as the first scientifically rigorous review of merit pay in the United States, measured the effect of financial incentives on teachers in Nashville public schools and found that better pay alone was not enough to inspire gains.

Advocates of performance pay did not immediately challenge the methodology of the study. But they said its conclusions were narrow and failed to evaluate the full package of professional development and other measures that President Obama and philanthropists such as Bill Gates say are crucial to improving America's public schools.

"Pay reform is often thought to be a magic bullet," said Matthew Springer, a Vanderbilt University education professor who led the study. "That doesn't appear to be the case here. We need to develop more thoughtful and comprehensive ways of thinking about compensation. But at the same time, we're not even sure whether incentive pay is an effective strategy for improving the system itself."


With backing from federal and state governments and private foundations, a growing number of public schools in recent years have embraced the idea of paying teachers, at least in part, on how much they improve student achievement.

Obama has encouraged the movement, through $4.35 billion in federal Race to the Top grants and other federal programs, despite the skepticism of some teachers unions and lawmakers within his party. D.C. Schools Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee became a hero in reform circles in part because of her insistence on a teachers' contract that allows performance bonuses. Some Prince George's County teachers also are earning bonuses.

Central to such changes is the idea that teachers should be rewarded when their students achieve outsize gains on standardized tests. That is a major shift from the tradition of determining pay by seniority and credentials such as master's or doctoral degrees.

The study was conducted by the National Center on Performance Incentives at Vanderbilt. The center, which takes no advocacy position on the issue, was created at the university's highly regarded Peabody College of Education and Human Development in 2006 with a $10 million federal research grant.

In a three-year experiment funded by the federal grant and aided by the Rand Corp., researchers tracked what happened in Nashville schools when math teachers in grades 5 through 8 were offered bonuses of $5,000, $10,000 and $15,000 for hitting annual test-score targets. About 300 teachers volunteered. Researchers randomly assigned half of the participants to a control group ineligible for the bonuses and the other half to an experimental group that could receive bonuses if their students reached certain benchmarks.

Researchers designed the bonuses to be large enough to function as a legitimate incentive for teachers whose average salary, according to a union official, is between $40,000 and $50,000. There were no additional variables in the experiment: no professional development, mentoring or other elements meant to affect test scores. The bonuses, totaling nearly $1.3 million, were funded by businessman Orrin Ingram, according to news reports. A university spokeswoman said Tuesday evening that she could not confirm those reports, and Ingram could not be reached for comment.

On the whole, researchers found no significant difference between the test results from classes led by teachers eligible for bonuses and those led by teachers who were ineligible. Bonuses appeared to have some positive effect in the fifth grade, researchers said, but they discounted that finding in part because the difference faded out when students moved to the sixth grade.

Obama administration officials and a wide range of experts were quick to note that the study did not examine the effect of performance pay in combination with other measures intended to improve teaching.


"While this is a good study, it only looked at the narrow question of whether more pay motivates teachers to try harder," said Peter Cunningham, assistant U.S. education secretary for communications and outreach. "What we are trying to do is change the culture of teaching by giving all educators the feedback they need to get better while rewarding and incentivizing the best to teach in high-need schools, hard to staff subjects. This study doesn't address that objective."

Administration officials say a federal program that backs performance pay in dozens of school systems has grown to $400 million a year, from about $100 million when Obama took office in 2009. Federal officials say a number of such efforts have shown promising initial results; they also are planning a comprehensive review of the program.

Eric A. Hanushek, an expert on the economics of education at Stanford University's conservative-leaning Hoover Institution, said the Vanderbilt study did not address a key question.

"The biggest role of incentives has to do with selection of who enters and who stays in teaching - i.e., how incentives change the teaching corps through entrance and exits," Hanushek said. "I have always thought that the effort effects were small relative to the potential for getting different teachers. Their study has nothing to say about this more important issue."

Erick Huth, president of the Metropolitan Nashville Education Association, a teachers union, said the study raised significant questions about "the extent to which we spend a lot of time trying to develop complex schemes to measure teacher performance and then reward [teachers] based on that performance." He said the study indicates that such efforts "may be a waste of time."

In the D.C. school system, teachers deemed "highly effective" based on test scores and other measures began receiving bonuses this year of up to $10,000, as well as other potential compensation benefits. The performance pay plan, a cornerstone of Rhee's effort to overhaul the city schools, is backed by a new contract with the Washington Teachers' Union and funding from private foundations.

Prince George's is entering the third year of a performance pay program that offers some teachers up to $10,000 based on good evaluations, improved student test scores and other factors. Superintendent William R. Hite Jr. said that there is some evidence that teacher retention has improved but that it is too early to say anything about student academic performance.

Staff writers Bill Turque and Michael Birnbaum contributed to this report.

 

[rashi]

I don't understand the logic here. The system sucks, there are a whole lot of bad teachers, both of which are admitted by the President and yet, you want the kids to attend a bad system taught by bad teachers longer? Ivy League schools are pumping out graduates who think like this?

"That month makes a difference," the president said. "It means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer. It's especially severe for poorer kids who may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities."

Obama said teachers and their profession should be more highly honored — as in China and some other countries, he said — and he said he wanted to work with the teachers' unions. But he also said that unions should not defend a status quo in which one-third of children are dropping out. He challenged them not to be resistant to change.


...Ohhh I see. Let me translate this for layman, "Since the Teacher's Union have heavily supported me through their lobby for years in hoping I would be in this position, I think that an extra month of pay to them is ok.  See, these people are special to me because they give me so much money in hopes I could get Congress to appropriate money to the Teacher's Unions and the States to give these same bad teachers a raise or bonuses for absolutely nothing. Disregard the fact the teachers in elementary through high school already make on average 40k-45k a year with all the benefits i.e. health care, pensions, retirement, ect., they only work 10 months out of the year and they receive more days off more than anyone else works a 9-5. Also, don't mind the study that was done recently as reported by the Washington Post that when teachers are offered up to a $15,000 bonus there is not a difference in the kids academic performance"



[h1][/h1]

[h1]Study undercuts teacher bonuses[/h1][table][tr][td]
[/td][td]
Your browser's settings may be preventing you from commenting on and viewing comments about this item. See instructions for fixing the problem.
[/td][/tr][/table]
By Nick Anderson
Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Offering teachers incentives of up to $15,000 to improve student test scores produced no discernible difference in academic performance, according to a study released Tuesday, a result likely to reshape the debate about merit pay programs sprouting in D.C. schools and many others nationwide.

The study, which the authors and other experts described as the first scientifically rigorous review of merit pay in the United States, measured the effect of financial incentives on teachers in Nashville public schools and found that better pay alone was not enough to inspire gains.

Advocates of performance pay did not immediately challenge the methodology of the study. But they said its conclusions were narrow and failed to evaluate the full package of professional development and other measures that President Obama and philanthropists such as Bill Gates say are crucial to improving America's public schools.

"Pay reform is often thought to be a magic bullet," said Matthew Springer, a Vanderbilt University education professor who led the study. "That doesn't appear to be the case here. We need to develop more thoughtful and comprehensive ways of thinking about compensation. But at the same time, we're not even sure whether incentive pay is an effective strategy for improving the system itself."


With backing from federal and state governments and private foundations, a growing number of public schools in recent years have embraced the idea of paying teachers, at least in part, on how much they improve student achievement.

Obama has encouraged the movement, through $4.35 billion in federal Race to the Top grants and other federal programs, despite the skepticism of some teachers unions and lawmakers within his party. D.C. Schools Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee became a hero in reform circles in part because of her insistence on a teachers' contract that allows performance bonuses. Some Prince George's County teachers also are earning bonuses.

Central to such changes is the idea that teachers should be rewarded when their students achieve outsize gains on standardized tests. That is a major shift from the tradition of determining pay by seniority and credentials such as master's or doctoral degrees.

The study was conducted by the National Center on Performance Incentives at Vanderbilt. The center, which takes no advocacy position on the issue, was created at the university's highly regarded Peabody College of Education and Human Development in 2006 with a $10 million federal research grant.

In a three-year experiment funded by the federal grant and aided by the Rand Corp., researchers tracked what happened in Nashville schools when math teachers in grades 5 through 8 were offered bonuses of $5,000, $10,000 and $15,000 for hitting annual test-score targets. About 300 teachers volunteered. Researchers randomly assigned half of the participants to a control group ineligible for the bonuses and the other half to an experimental group that could receive bonuses if their students reached certain benchmarks.

Researchers designed the bonuses to be large enough to function as a legitimate incentive for teachers whose average salary, according to a union official, is between $40,000 and $50,000. There were no additional variables in the experiment: no professional development, mentoring or other elements meant to affect test scores. The bonuses, totaling nearly $1.3 million, were funded by businessman Orrin Ingram, according to news reports. A university spokeswoman said Tuesday evening that she could not confirm those reports, and Ingram could not be reached for comment.

On the whole, researchers found no significant difference between the test results from classes led by teachers eligible for bonuses and those led by teachers who were ineligible. Bonuses appeared to have some positive effect in the fifth grade, researchers said, but they discounted that finding in part because the difference faded out when students moved to the sixth grade.

Obama administration officials and a wide range of experts were quick to note that the study did not examine the effect of performance pay in combination with other measures intended to improve teaching.


"While this is a good study, it only looked at the narrow question of whether more pay motivates teachers to try harder," said Peter Cunningham, assistant U.S. education secretary for communications and outreach. "What we are trying to do is change the culture of teaching by giving all educators the feedback they need to get better while rewarding and incentivizing the best to teach in high-need schools, hard to staff subjects. This study doesn't address that objective."

Administration officials say a federal program that backs performance pay in dozens of school systems has grown to $400 million a year, from about $100 million when Obama took office in 2009. Federal officials say a number of such efforts have shown promising initial results; they also are planning a comprehensive review of the program.

Eric A. Hanushek, an expert on the economics of education at Stanford University's conservative-leaning Hoover Institution, said the Vanderbilt study did not address a key question.

"The biggest role of incentives has to do with selection of who enters and who stays in teaching - i.e., how incentives change the teaching corps through entrance and exits," Hanushek said. "I have always thought that the effort effects were small relative to the potential for getting different teachers. Their study has nothing to say about this more important issue."

Erick Huth, president of the Metropolitan Nashville Education Association, a teachers union, said the study raised significant questions about "the extent to which we spend a lot of time trying to develop complex schemes to measure teacher performance and then reward [teachers] based on that performance." He said the study indicates that such efforts "may be a waste of time."

In the D.C. school system, teachers deemed "highly effective" based on test scores and other measures began receiving bonuses this year of up to $10,000, as well as other potential compensation benefits. The performance pay plan, a cornerstone of Rhee's effort to overhaul the city schools, is backed by a new contract with the Washington Teachers' Union and funding from private foundations.

Prince George's is entering the third year of a performance pay program that offers some teachers up to $10,000 based on good evaluations, improved student test scores and other factors. Superintendent William R. Hite Jr. said that there is some evidence that teacher retention has improved but that it is too early to say anything about student academic performance.

Staff writers Bill Turque and Michael Birnbaum contributed to this report.

 

[rashi]

 

[rashi]

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by rashi

I don't understand the logic here. The system sucks, there are a whole lot of bad teachers, both of which are admitted by the President and yet, you want the kids to attend a bad system taught by bad teachers longer? Ivy League schools are pumping out graduates who think like this?

"That month makes a difference," the president said. "It means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer. It's especially severe for poorer kids who may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities."

Obama said teachers and their profession should be more highly honored — as in China and some other countries, he said — and he said he wanted to work with the teachers' unions. But he also said that unions should not defend a status quo in which one-third of children are dropping out. He challenged them not to be resistant to change.

...Ohhh I see. Let me translate this for layman, "Since the Teacher's Union have heavily supported me through their lobby for years in hoping I would be in this position, I think that an extra month of pay to them is ok.  See, these people are special to me because they give me so much money in hopes I could get Congress to appropriate money to the Teacher's Unions and the States to give these same bad teachers a raise or bonuses for absolutely nothing. Disregard the fact the teachers in elementary through high school already make on average 40k-45k a year with all the benefits i.e. health care, pensions, retirement, ect., they only work 10 months out of the year and they receive more days off more than anyone else works a 9-5."


This guy gets it.  Adding a month to the school year is going to do nothing. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by rashi

I don't understand the logic here. The system sucks, there are a whole lot of bad teachers, both of which are admitted by the President and yet, you want the kids to attend a bad system taught by bad teachers longer? Ivy League schools are pumping out graduates who think like this?

"That month makes a difference," the president said. "It means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer. It's especially severe for poorer kids who may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities."

Obama said teachers and their profession should be more highly honored — as in China and some other countries, he said — and he said he wanted to work with the teachers' unions. But he also said that unions should not defend a status quo in which one-third of children are dropping out. He challenged them not to be resistant to change.

...Ohhh I see. Let me translate this for layman, "Since the Teacher's Union have heavily supported me through their lobby for years in hoping I would be in this position, I think that an extra month of pay to them is ok.  See, these people are special to me because they give me so much money in hopes I could get Congress to appropriate money to the Teacher's Unions and the States to give these same bad teachers a raise or bonuses for absolutely nothing. Disregard the fact the teachers in elementary through high school already make on average 40k-45k a year with all the benefits i.e. health care, pensions, retirement, ect., they only work 10 months out of the year and they receive more days off more than anyone else works a 9-5."


This guy gets it.  Adding a month to the school year is going to do nothing. 

 

[swyftdahoe]

1) PAY TEACHERS MORE
2) PAY TEACHERS MORE
3) PAY TEACHERS MORE

 

[swyftdahoe]

1) PAY TEACHERS MORE
2) PAY TEACHERS MORE
3) PAY TEACHERS MORE

 

[swyftdahoe]

1) PAY TEACHERS MORE
2) PAY TEACHERS MORE
3) PAY TEACHERS MORE

 

[swyftdahoe]

1) PAY TEACHERS MORE
2) PAY TEACHERS MORE
3) PAY TEACHERS MORE

 

[shatterkneesinc]

waiting for superman