- Aug 2, 2006
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damn it, and I felt a genuine moment of honest connection there.
way to ruin the moment
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
damn it, and I felt a genuine moment of honest connection there.
way to ruin the moment
- Jul 20, 2009
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The GOP got so much power over the 2010 gerrymandering process because of the losses in 2010
The seat they lost were Blue Dog Democrats that appealed to the cultural conservativism of the Democratic party. To the point of attacking Obama and making excuses for the Tea Party's racism.
Not only that, the lost in 2010 was in line with historical trends of the incumbent party losing seats in the following midterm
And the numbers were so high because the Democratic Party were coming off two previous blowouts. And the maps were slightly GOP gerrymandered
Beyond racial backlash, Obama's approval ratings were in the tank was because of a jobless recovery caused by the penny pinching of Blue Dogs
The seat they lost were Blue Dog Democrats that appealed to the cultural conservativism of the Democratic party. To the point of attacking Obama and making excuses for the Tea Party's racism.
Not only that, the lost in 2010 was in line with historical trends of the incumbent party losing seats in the following midterm
And the numbers were so high because the Democratic Party were coming off two previous blowouts. And the maps were slightly GOP gerrymandered
Beyond racial backlash, Obama's approval ratings were in the tank was because of a jobless recovery caused by the penny pinching of Blue Dogs
- Aug 11, 2012
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Black voters are pragmatic….while being “conservative” in their own way.
If you think class reductionist **** in the Democratic Party is not going to alienate Black voters…you have another thing coming.
*****s are at the point collectively, where the calls for an EXPLICIT black agenda have grown. And if that is not addressed….you’ll alienate the black vote.
What you’re saying, has been going on forever. It’s why Biden got the nod.
But Black folk are legit TIRED of the “let’s coddle white folk” ****., play hush hush about racism…and hope a large net agenda is pushed. It isn’t new.
- Jul 20, 2009
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We have reached the same point in this discussion as when he was in here saying people just was revenge on the police
- Aug 2, 2006
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aka what I said said was totally accurate?
I would describe this response as what is the term?..." full of ****"?
- Aug 2, 2006
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you no evidence for this.
you can look at all tho polling black voters are more working class, and more consertive than their white democratic counterparts.
wut? in that primary field Biden probably had this least race explicit agendas
and was considered the moderate candidate.
yet he totally dominated black voters,
why would this lead to the conclusion that democrats need more explicitly race conscious agenda?
- Jul 20, 2009
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Osh Kosh Boshood you are want to point out how right you were even though you left out all the context to the situation and moves the discussion well beyond "blame the Dems"
aka what I said said was totally accurate?
I would describe this response as what is the term?..." full of ****"?
If the redistricting year fell on the same year as the presidential election like it did last year, then the GOP doesn't have the numbers to expand their gerrymander. The Dems got unlucky more than anything else.
So simply blaming their losses with rural voters misses a lot of important context. That is why I said you were full of ****. You ignored details that would undermine your simple *** take
So it not just about them losing rural voters, you are saying
Based Jesus
should blame them for not pulling off something unseen in modern politics (only 2002 comes close but 9/11 played a massive part in helping the GOP) But as a joke the post was solid, it did make me laugh
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- Aug 2, 2006
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i didn't say that it was only due to rural erosion.
I said "down ballot losses and rural erosion"
My point is that it happened, it's over, you can't go back.
the reasons for the down ballot loses are numerous and irrelevant to my point.
the point is you should be focused on democrats, and making sure they are doing what it takes to win (minds can differ on what they should)
instead of crying about republicans.
- Jan 16, 2011
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The guy who doesn't live here wants to tell us about the policies we had to live under.
Donald Trump, who lengthened the immigration process, fired most department of State employees, refused to hire immigration judges, and had racist *** Miller in charge of immigration policies was less against immigration in 2020 than in 2016.
LOL.
"Propaganda isn't magic"
*Also dismisses the process by which propaganda works.
"Human history isn't evidence of anything"
Really?
So you're just gonna dismiss what you don't like? This can't be a serious discussion.
- Aug 11, 2012
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Dawg….you are not reading me correctly at all.
1. stop projecting.
2. Yes…..I KNOW, Black voters are working class and “conservative”
3. Biden being a moderate…is exactly what I’m talking about. Black people are pratctical voters. They looked at the two options…and chose the best. And they chose the white guy, that they knew..would be the best candidate to beat the other white guy.
4. I’m telling you….it has never really worked if we keep sweeping racism under a rug, and going the “class route”. History has proven this.
5. you keep thinking black voters in America aren’t disillusioned. We are. And coddling white folks and not having more explicit things for Black people, will turn off black voters if it is another election between two conservative/moderate candidates.
This isn’t hard to grasp.
- Jul 20, 2009
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Then if you are gonna be snarky and lecture, how about your try to be accurate as well.
What lead to the Dems being so ****** on gerrymandering goes beyond what you mentioned, and are very important details
You are mixing up what prevents the Dems from overcoming the gerrymander, not what caused it. Those are two different things
And of course, it is easy for you to preach some get over it steez from your Maple tower across the border
The GOP's gerrymander is the main thing that gives your pull the goalie" takes any credence
You have zero plan to win back rural voters too.
We could get rid of the gerrymander tomorrow, but you are also in here throwing on your cape for the main guy preventing that from happening
So seems to me people have the right to be pissed, and can freely express their anger in here.
We don't work for the ******* Democratic party, not like anyone is acting like the Dems don't have to adjust to the situation.
- Aug 2, 2006
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again just read what I say, it's easier that making it up.
I said his campaign was, and it absolutely was
his POLICIES were extreme
and voters responded to this by becoming more favorable to immigration not less.
and he de emphasized immigration in campaign rhetoric.
if you do something extreme and the voters turn away from you,
did the Overton window move towards you or away?
1. you aren't describing gravity or quantum physics equation.
you're describing your opinion on how you think propaganda works.
2. the evidence you site, is a vague hand wave towards "human history"
this evidence is fallacious and insufficient.
as I said you can look through human history and find right wing extremists in every culture.
the existence of right wing propaganda clearly does not lead to an inevitable march towards the public adopting those views.
it's a standard slippery slope argument, and there is no evidence in gesturing toward "human history"
- Aug 2, 2006
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If it you think it was unclear fine, my bad
but you substituted your own interpretation which is not inaccurate
but now that I've clarified I think my point remains I think a fair one.
i didn't say you don't have a right to be pissed.
but i think more a productive approach is to figure out what you can do,
than fixating on how bad the bad people are.
but that is one mans opinion.
- Mar 25, 2021
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At this point, I think you might be the only one who thought you'd never say that
You've been pulling from a wide range of sources man
- Jul 20, 2009
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Is
Based Jesus
on here a member of the DNC, DCCC, or DSCC?He made a joke poking fun at you and you basically wanted to lecture him about how he uses his time
- Aug 2, 2006
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my bad if I misinterpreted.
i just don't agree,
white democrats have moved to the left on a lot of racial politics in the last 5 years.
you look at primary races it doesn't seem to be the case that black voters gravitate to the voters most explicit on racial issues, even ones that have a chance at winning.
It's not like in NY primary Maya Wiley or Morales dominated with black voters.
the ex republican moderate did.
and Donald trump despite being a bigot managed to win over black and Latino people in 2020.
itt doesn't seem to be the case that explicit language on race leads to just way way more black support.
I think you under estimate the general conservatism of the black electorate.
- Aug 2, 2006
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Is
He made a joke poking fun at you and you basically wanted to lecture him about how he uses his time
yes obviously I know it's a joke,
I used it as a jumping off point to make broader point about some of the discussions we've been having.
- Jul 20, 2009
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BTW, someone that cares about the Dems tailoring their message to win the biggest vote share they can, should definitely be pissed about gerrymandering ton and the few Dems preventing federal reforms in that area.
In an era of high partisanship, even the best messaging is not gonna lead to massive coalitions. Gerrymandering forces the Dems to chase more and more conservative voters, which runs the risk of alienating people at the other end.
If getting every single swing voter should matter, then not alienating any of the incumbent members of your coalition should matter too. You can argue that people will vote Dems anyway, another option is folk sitting out because our political system also prevents the government from being responsive.
So I care about the Dems winning over swing voters, I am fine with them appealing to some of the cultural conservatism and centrism that exist in the electorate. Dems winning elections are important, the GOP is too dangerous right now. And because this is my position, gerrymandering and the Dems inaction on election reform infuriates me. Because you are basically undermining the potential success of your big tent political messaging by handcuffing yourself to run in elections rigged against you, and getting worse.
It is peak dumb.
In an era of high partisanship, even the best messaging is not gonna lead to massive coalitions. Gerrymandering forces the Dems to chase more and more conservative voters, which runs the risk of alienating people at the other end.
If getting every single swing voter should matter, then not alienating any of the incumbent members of your coalition should matter too. You can argue that people will vote Dems anyway, another option is folk sitting out because our political system also prevents the government from being responsive.
So I care about the Dems winning over swing voters, I am fine with them appealing to some of the cultural conservatism and centrism that exist in the electorate. Dems winning elections are important, the GOP is too dangerous right now. And because this is my position, gerrymandering and the Dems inaction on election reform infuriates me. Because you are basically undermining the potential success of your big tent political messaging by handcuffing yourself to run in elections rigged against you, and getting worse.
It is peak dumb.
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- Nov 29, 2012
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Yikes
- Aug 2, 2006
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it's definitely dumb,
I really though Joe Manchin was going to see the light, but It seems like he really believes in this filibuster nonsense.
it's deeply deeply unfortunate.
i don't think we really disagree that much,
im just much more inclined to fixate on the failings on my own ideological "side"
- Feb 11, 2008
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- Dec 23, 2009
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Is this going to be what I expect it to be? Or will watching this after work NOT be a waste of time?
- Jul 20, 2009
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G R I B B L E
I agree with everything in this video
I just really wish they called out rich white liberals specifically. There is a class dynamic here that stretches across racial lines, but in practice, it is really affluent white liberals' hypocrisy that drives most of this stuff. There are parts of the status quo that want to remain the same, and that is undermining the entire liberal project.
Even as some affluent white liberals warm-up to better policy for the sake of equality, the bad actors adopt the language of progressives to act like the people willing to change things are actually the ones looking to do harm to communities and minorities
I agree with everything in this video
I just really wish they called out rich white liberals specifically. There is a class dynamic here that stretches across racial lines, but in practice, it is really affluent white liberals' hypocrisy that drives most of this stuff. There are parts of the status quo that want to remain the same, and that is undermining the entire liberal project.
Even as some affluent white liberals warm-up to better policy for the sake of equality, the bad actors adopt the language of progressives to act like the people willing to change things are actually the ones looking to do harm to communities and minorities
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- Jul 20, 2009
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Nah it is really good.
The only issue I had is that kinda blames the whole party for the hypocrisy that is concentrated among a powerful few
- Jul 20, 2009
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Cali actually has the most progressive tax system in the country too.
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