***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[lovehateself]

they lucky all they getting is jail with how that dude rolls

gonna send them to chernobyl

 

[IATT]

gonna send them to chernobyl

 

[360waves]

need to catch up on this thread. Crazy videos on Reddit of people filming jets and bombings throughout the country. This is so incredibly sad.

 

[IATT]

 

[daruma]

 

[frankmatthews]

More context around the question of US "support" of the revolution.



BTW, that sub is actively moderated (but not as moderated as r/askhistorians), especially during quiet times, so the info you find there might be biased one way or another, but it's generally accurate.

You see, while the former presidential hopeful's weekend trip was full of pro-Europe sound bites — "Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better,” he told a crowd in Kyiv's central Maidan square on Saturday — and warnings of stern reactions from the U.S. should Ukraine use violence against the protesters, there's another detail to it that might cause McCain fans at home some concern.
As the U.K.'s Channel 4 news points out, McCain was repeatedly photographed with Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of the right wing nationalist party Svoboda.


Nowadays Svoboda (which means freedom in Ukrainian) is one of those reconstructed modern European far right parties — it is aligned with the British National Party and the French National Front, for example — and it has gained some kind of electoral legitimacy, winning 10 percent of the seats in Ukraine's parliament in 2010.
However, the party's past is seriously murky. When it was founded in 1995, the party called itself the Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), and it had a swastika-like logo.

John McCain Went To Ukraine And Stood On Stage With A Man Accused Of Being An Anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi

www.businessinsider.com

McCain was in the Eastern European nation—along with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy — to cheer on the ongoing right-wing protest movement. In February 2014, this movement was successful: Ukraine’s democratically elected, pro-Russian government was overthrown in a coup, in which fascist forces played a significant role (FAIR.org, 3/7/14).

Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution

To maintain a simple good vs. evil framework, the fact that Ukraine's neo-fascist movement had a significant role in the opposition to Yanukovych--and the government that replaced him--was downplayed or even outright denied.

fair.org

One of the party's lawmakers was appointed to run the powerful defense ministry before being forced out. However, Svoboda still holds one of the vice prime minister posts as well as the ministries of agriculture and the environment. According to Foreign Policy magazine, this represents the largest far-right representation in any government in Europe.

The appointment of Svoboda co-founder Andriy Parubiy to position of secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee has raised eyebrows. Although now a member of the liberal-conservative Fatherland party, Parubiy led anti-Yanukovych street militias in Kiev in the wake of protests that erupted in December

Analysis: U.S. Cozies Up to Kiev Government Including Far Right

The new Ukrainian government contains several ministers from a party some describe as extreme right-wing.

www.nbcnews.com

The US was openly backing the protests that resulted in the overthrow of the democratically elected, pro russian govt in ukraine in 2014. McCain going so far as to threaten US intervention on behalf of the far right protestors. There was definitely support there, to what extent I dont think is entirely clear, on purpose, for obvious reasons.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[niketalker23]

Who the **** cares about this

 

[Nike Jordan]

Who the **** cares about this

It's a parody account.

 

[niketalker23]

It's a parody account.

gotcha

 

[IATT]

I think the Russian army murdering Ukrainian cousins for totally made up reasons

Is a bit different than unpopular republican tax cuts or whatever.

Why I reference Florida:

 

[IATT]

 

[whywesteppin]

Presidential material right there!

 

[heelsandeers]

I wasnt really talking about nato, but correct me if I'm wrong, wasnt there a precedent set in kosovo/serbia thats counter to your argument?

Nato or not, US military installations, or western backed Ukranian installations on russias borders shouldn't be perceived as a threat? To my point, did Cubas alliance with the communists threaten US sovereignty?

You speak of sovereignty and democracy, but wasnt the govt in western ukraine established via coup? And didnt the US fund or otherwise provoke that instability as they have done countless times across the globe for decades?

No, Kosovo/Serbia is not counter to my argument. If you want to look for a Western war of aggression based on false pretenses there are far better examples

There isn't an argument to be made in Russia's favor about perceived threats (Other than Democracy = bad, Autocracy = good). Did you listen to Putin's speech? Straight from his mouth that former Soviet Republics are not nations and do not exist. That's all we need to know regarding his motives

In any case, Russia's sphere of influence is entirely predicated on armed conflict and bribes because that is the state which Putin has so carefully cultivated. There was never an attempt to create a Russia that appealed to its neighbors on the merits because Putin was too busy ransacking the nation and running its economy into the dirt

I'm not necessarily trying to praise US foreign policy here either, I just think treating the expansion of NATO/Western influence as a provocation of Russia is essentially letting Russia set the tone of the discourse

I don't assume that the US was the driving force behind the Maiden Revolution, as opposed to people overthrowing a corrupt government whose allegiance laid more with Russia than its own people

 

[Belgium]

Ah yes, it may very well be possible that Putin was lying when he said he was just all about peacekeeping in Ukraine's Donbass region.
Jesus christ

 

[IATT]

 

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[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[gry60]

Gov. Abbott to Blame for Billions in High Electric Prices, Former Grid CEO Says

The former head of Texas' power grid said a decision to keep electricity prices high during last year's storm came from the governor.

gizmodo.com

It’s Texas Governor Greg Abbott’s fault that power prices during the state’s deadly 2021 winter storm shot through the roof even as the crisis was ending, a former top official with the state’s power grid testified Wednesday. This claim contradicts the official line from the governor’s office, which has maintained that Abbott had nothing to do with the decision that cost ratepayers billions of dollars.

Bill Magness, the former President and CEO of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which runs the state’s power grid, took the stand this week in bankruptcy court as part of a hearing brought by Brazos Electric, an electric co-op based in Waco. At the center of the mess is a key decision made by ERCOT during last year’s historic winter storm to keep electricity prices high, even as outages were ending across the state, for more than a day after things started to return to normal.

That move ultimately cost power providers an extra $16 billion in costs; Brazos, for its part, is claiming that the decision cost it $1.9 billion alone, which dragged it into bankruptcy. (Power companies, of course, aren’t the only ones who got the short end of the stick in this move. Some customers also saw astronomical power bills following the storm.)

 

[IATT]

 

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[frank 7he t4nk]

Them snowflakes though...

 

[IATT]

 

[Nike Jordan]