***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

felt great voting for joe/kamala in 2020. not feeling great about it now. is what it is.

the two party system is a fixture and isn’t going anywhere. but until the DNC is willing to move from being centrist, i’m just circling a bubble for the apparent lesser of evils.

As long as you're circling then I commend you. Biden vs Trump is an easy decision.

 

[Mark Antony]

Nothing I've seen from Republicans in the past few years would ever make me consider them ever again in my lifetime. Incredibly unstable.

 

[Based Jesus]

Belgium you need bail money?

 

[aepps20]

Belgium you need bail money?

Very happy with this result. Sounded like a Barry Bonds home run

 

[RustyShackleford]

Belgium you need bail money?

Rihanna approves

 

[dacomeup]

I think the Biden Administration is handling the situation poorly all things considered

I doubt it will be the reason he could lose the election if he loses

it won’t be the sole reason but certainly will be one of the reasons. Margins are thin and if this is one of the things that helps cause a low turnout amongst the younger demo and more progressive voters then you’ll def have to point to this

 

[Belgium]

Belgium you need bail money?

Didn’t look like his umbrella was fully loaded, rookie mistake. No custom light grip, metallic covering, … nothing. His swing had good form but he needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

[RustyShackleford]

it won’t be the sole reason but certainly will be one of the reasons. Margins are thin and if this is one of the things that helps cause a low turnout amongst the younger demo and more progressive voters then you’ll def have to point to this

Sorry, but I really don't think this is a very strong argument. At least not right now

Margins are thin so anything that appears to motivate any voting group you could make the same argument for.

With our without this situation, the margins will be thin for Biden. The young demo was probably already gonna have low turnout, and progressives were already mad at Biden.

Progressive commentators mad at Biden here seem to be adopting the same framework for their arguments that ****ty centrists do. Things will be close, I think my way is the best, so if they don't listen to me the political consequences for it will be huge.

The reverse can be said. Supporting Israel is the overall popular position in America. Biden needs to win a ton of swing voters, indies, and disillusioned Republicans. He takes a different stance from them, loses support, and thin margins and he loses the election.

I feel there are enough valid criticisms of Biden's handling of this situation without going into the election forecasting

 

[dacomeup]

With our without this situation, the margins will be thin for Biden. The young demo was probably already gonna have low turnout, and progressives were already mad at Biden.

Sure, but the numbers are dropping even more over the last month. There obviously is a connection to how they’re handling this.

The reverse can be said. Supporting Israel is the overall popular position in America. Biden needs to win a ton of swing voters, indies, and disillusioned Republicans. He takes a different stance from them, loses support, and thin margins and he loses the election.

His popularity is down with indies too though. We’ll see, long time until 2024. But unabashed support for a genocide seems very plausible to make an impact here. Especially with more Americans feeling sympathy for Palestine than Israel for the first time in over 20 years.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sure, but the numbers are dropping even more over the last month. There obviously is a connection to how they’re handling this.

I put no stock in poll numbers, especially job approval numbers this far out, in the heat of the conflict when the news cycling is focused on it

His popularity is down with indies too though. We’ll see, long time until 2024.

Yeah, they have been down for a while. Also . Furthermore, I don't know if his handling of this is the direct cause of any additional shifts, or if that shift is statistically significant.

Seems to me like a lot of correlation is being presented as causation

But unabashed support for a genocide seems very plausible to make an impact here.

I don't think the marginal voter will it is like this

Especially with more Americans feeling sympathy for Palestine than Israel for the first time in over 20 years.

I think the numbers for Democrats have flipped to supporting Palestine, which is shifting the overall numbers. But not the entire population. These numbers are from March, but I haven't seen anything saying this new conflict has flipped support.

-Also, foreign policy issues tend not to matter for general elections that much unless it is dominating the news cycle at the time, and there are clashing opinions on how to handle the situation.

Both sides will be pro-Israel to different degrees. And I don't think this will be dominating the news cycle next fall unless something else happens.

-If he does lose, we won't know until months and months after the election. And I think the usual big issue will move the needle mostly, and people will make the argument "Welp, if Biden had just done this, then he could have overcome the margin". Maybe the evidence will show that to be true, but right now it seems like a bit of a reach.

 

[IATT]

 

[dragicon]

This guy is really anti-drag and he’s strutting around on stages in high heel boots.

 

[rexanglorum]

I don’t think anyone reasonably expects Biden to fundamentally change US policy towards Israel. But it’s not such a big ask for him to be more insistent that Israel to do an about face in terms of cutting off water to the Gaza Strip, Israel bombing bakeries and first responders in Gaza, and Israeli escalation in the West Bank and the greater Middle East. Or if that’s too much, stop publicly doubting the death toll in Gaza.

Any “swing" voters who is strongly in favor of causing Palestinian children to die of thirst or medical neglect, was going to vote Trump in any case.

Joe Biden has the power to, at the very least, reduce the death and displacement simply by making different statements. Israel is highly dependent on the U.S. and if Joe Biden called what’s happening in the Gaza Strip genocide, Israel would moderate itself. Publicly doubting Palestinian death tolls and not calling out Israel’s active war crimes tells Israeli leadership that it has an unconditional green light to do whatever it pleases. They are making judgements based on the President’s statements.

Will this change the outcome of the election? Probably not. But it’s not exactly good practice to be shoulder to shoulder with Republicans on a high profile, moral bell weather issue in a moment where Republicans know that their best bet is convincing left leaning young people to embrace cynicism, and check out of the process due to the often false belief that both parties are fundamentally the same.

Usually, a sitting president can’t really materially change things by giving a speech of changing their messaging on an issue but in this instance, President Biden’s words, every word he uses, has a material impact both right now in Gaza and on Election Day 2024 here.

 

[aepps20]

The margins will.be tight for Joe and Trump because of the polarized political environment we are in. I happen to agree with both dacomeup and RustyShackleford . I am on democratic underground message board and it is amazing how different people on the same side view things as it relates to Israel and the Palestinian people. Over there any statements reflecting on the humanity of the Palestinian people will get you shouted down fast. When the same article about Muslim Americans, especially in Michigan were saying they weren't going to vote for Joe, you had a good riddance vibe which was beyond stupid. Which speaks to the fact that the demographic over there is much older and whiter. You have a clown that talks about having a direct line to James Carville and spouts about how Carville says we are too woke.

1. Do I think Joe is Handling the Israel/Hamas war properly? No

2. Do I think Joe needs to speak to Muslim and Arab Americans and have a listening tour? Yes, empathy for people is needed here.

3. Should Joe be concerned about getting high turnout from our voters? Absolutely, which is why I'm glad Roe is gone and more people understand that if you don't vote the corrupt court will take away your rights.

4. Should we panic? No, lots of time until 24 and I suspect that when people are keyed in on this being Joe vs Trump 2, people will turn out not because they love Joe but because they hate Trump. They interviewed a former Republican in PA and he said he would vote for Joe even if he was dead to keep Trump out.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[rexanglorum]

So American to accuse the Palestinian Arabs, fighting for survival in an open air prison, of anti Semitism and then turn around and go to bat for one of the most flagrantly anti Semitic governments on earth.

If you only went off of America's closest Arab and Muslim allies, then yes, Arabs and Muslims don't value human life, just like their benefactors do not either.

 

[kungfu koala]

He looks like he's on estrogen therapy. Dont even mean offense.

 

[rexanglorum]

Never forget that sexual abuse is an integral part of every apartheid regime.



(Edit): the map on there is stupid and actually undermines their point. The map looks like pretty much any map in the US.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[DLF]

anyone but Trump and genocide Joe

 

[Wargames]

4. Should we panic? No, lots of time until 24 and I suspect that when people are keyed in on this being Joe vs Trump 2, people will turn out not because they love Joe but because they hate Trump. They interviewed a former Republican in PA and he said he would vote for Joe even if he was dead to keep Trump out.

I appreciate the sentiment and want to agree, but after 2016 to 2020, Covid, and Jan 6th he shouldn’t be the nominee but he will be. His supporters have no expectations of him and will support him regardless because they are broken, foolish people and want that reflected in their leadership. So considering a lot of the voters in this country’s worldview is myopic as ****. You can’t wave them away. The deplorables have nothing but their belief that they can bring everyone else down to their level.

Did anyone explain to them how bad it would be if they funded Israel and then let the US shutdown? It be a massacre come next election. You know what I forgot they have the same base as Trump. Only republicans in purple states will be worried by the outcome.

 

[DLF]

Shame on these warpigs

 

[DLF]

I appreciate the sentiment and want to agree, but after 2016 to 2020, Covid, and Jan 6th he shouldn’t be the nominee but he will be. His supporters have no expectations of him and will support him regardless because they are broken, foolish people and want that reflected in their leadership. So considering a lot of the voters in this country’s worldview is myopic as ****. You can’t wave them away. The deplorables have nothing but their belief that they can bring everyone else down to their level.

Did anyone explain to them how bad it would be if they funded Israel and then let the US shutdown? It be a massacre come next election. You know what I forgot they have the same base as Trump. Only republicans in purple states will be worried by the outcome.

No it wouldn’t.

Americans are so gullible.

They would show a fake beheaded baby and the people would gladly accept poverty. Don’t underestimate the apartheid states lobby.