***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[cl-1b]

We have already established you have no idea how tax work.

You have no idea what communism is.

Because if that is communism, America was a communist state at one point. LINK

I think your full of **** if you ask me

 

[RustyShackleford]

We have already established you have no idea how tax work.

You have no idea what communism is.

Because if that is communism, America was a communist state at one point. LINK

I think your full of **** if you ask me

I don't think you're problem is with me. Your problem is with reality

Because it keeps getting in the way of you making your silly arguments

 

[cl-1b]

Who's paying you to push this non-sense

 

[RustyShackleford]

Who's paying you to push this non-sense

I'm a paid shill for reality

I'm sorry you and it have such a beef

But I'm just doing my job, nothing personal

 

[obeahmyal7]

Krugman was not being pro Clinton with that blog post. He was stating the obvious, you can't make the assumption that the economy will grow extremely high rates just for you numbers to add up. Then when people call you out on it, just be dismissive.

And Krugman wasn't the only liberal economist to call him out

My issue with the post was that Krugman was comparing the praise by Sander's campaign officials  of an economic projection (to my knowledge Sanders himself has never touted that +5% figure) with the kind of ideologically fact twisting, mythical work that has not just been articulated or praised but has been the basis of political regimes in actual places and municipalities to the detriment of anyone not in the 1%. He was comparing two things that cannot be considered together. 

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yea I'm sorry but Hilary's shadiness/unworthiness isn't really a GOP ploy/narrative as much as it's been on display throughout the years . She's provided them with a good amount of ammo. A few of her "scandals" are non scandals imo but they sure know how to make a mountain out of a molehill and turn it into something. The fact that she's under actual FBI investigation and others like Powell and Rice aren't even though they had the same kind of private emails,beats me

So unlike that last pic that was floating around,here's finally a real pic of Bern being arrested in Chicago during the Civil Rights movement

Also for those who are still on the fence about or aren't sure/don't think that Bern really cares about issues affecting the black community,he'll be on BET tomorrow morning at 10 being interviewed by one of my favorite political commentators in Marc Lamont Hill and he'll be asking him a bunch of tough questions including some on reparations.

-I don't see the point of this photo in relation to the last one. No one was questioning if Bernie Sander's participating in the Civil Rights Movement

-Second, Bernie is doing that interview to pander.

While I do feel he cares about black people being treated fairly, he has shown me he is probably has racially tone deaf as many of this supporters. But in a different way

He doesn't understand white supremacy, in all these years he never bother to learn anything about it, until he is pushed.

He is no where as bad as conservatives, he is better than most liberals, and I honestly believe social democracy would help the black community a lot.

I believe him when he says he cares, but I don't when he says he understands.

-Hillary has a better understanding of how racism works in his country, her solutions are not better than Bernie's.

I'm voting based on policies, but I can see why some black folk see Bernie Sander's way of thinking more dangerous than Clinton's

 

[obeahmyal7]

 
Didn't bern say that he doesn't think a top tier 90% tax rate isn't too high on cnbc? i don't agree with that type of wealth distribution what so ever. thats communism family 

It's one thing to disagree with such high federal marginal income tax rates, which, by the way have historical precedent. 

It's another to call this form of wealth distribution communism. It is not and you do yourself a disservice by drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[rolaholic]

Just sharing the photo because a lot of people have been calling bs on his claims of actually being on the front lines during that era during debates.

I see that the man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't . If he didn't address those issues he doesn't give a damn and when he actually does he's pandering and there's the implication that he's being disingenuous . Hilary's also doing an interview with BET at the same time btw...if you wanna call that pandering too.

Also,I don't doubt that most are voting on policy either...

 

[obeahmyal7]

-I don't see the point of this photo in relation to the last one. No one was questioning if Bernie Sander's participating in the Civil Rights Movement

-Second, Bernie is doing that interview to pander.

While I do feel he cares about black people being treated fairly, he has shown me he is probably has racially tone deaf as many of this supporters. But in a different way

He doesn't understand white supremacy, in all these years he never bother to learn anything about it, until he is pushed.

He is no where as bad as conservatives, he is better than most liberals, I honestly believe social democracy would help the black community a lot.

I believe him when he says he cars, but I don't when he says he understands.

-Hillary has a better understanding of how racism works in his country, her solutions are not better than Bernie's.

I'm voting based on policies, but I can see why some black folk she Bernie Sander's way of thinking more dangerous than Clinton's

I usually agree with you, but who the hell cares whether Bernie Sanders "cares" or "understands" "white supremacy"? 

First off, politicians pander and it speaks to the strength of the movement for black lives that he is actually pandering. Even if a politician did "understand" how racism operates, the plethora of interest group pressures on that President will force black people to constantly place pressure on the president to act  on a concise political, economic, and social agenda that improves the conditions of black folk in this country. 

Secondly, yes Clinton has an understanding of how racism operates but largely because her husband presided over the largest increase in the federal and state prison population. She learned about anti-black racism while she was championing the 1994 Crime Control bill. She understands racism, largely because she played a part in institutionalizing it through the expansion of the carceral state. 

 

[RustyShackleford]

Just sharing the photo because a lot of people have been calling bs on his claims of actually being on the front lines during that era during debates.

I see that the man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't . If he didn't address those issues he doesn't give a damn and when he actually does he's pandering and there's the implication of dishonesty . Hilary's also doing an interview with BET at the same time btw...

He wasn't on the front lines though He was there, no on questioned him putting in work

People on the front lines got lynched, sprayed with water, attacked by dogs and killed.

Good on Bernie for fighting for a just cause, but is it is insulting the way people paint him as a "leader"

If the civil right movement failed, there was going to be a large cost to pay for the real people on the front lines. A cost people like Bernie's wouldn't have had to pay.

 

[rolaholic]

I didn't paint him as a "leader" of the movement or anything like that,just saying he was on the ground standing for what he believed in. How was he not on the front lines if he was being arrested??

I'm sure he would've gone through some of what you mentioned like a lot of civil rights "allies" did if he was in the South at that time. I still don't see the need to split up those that were trying to help the cause into different tiers when everyone's contribution was integral towards achieving some of the progress we have now.

He wouldn't have had to pay the large cost you're talking about just like any non black person wouldn't have,not sure how that's on him.

 

[obeahmyal7]

He wasn't on the front lines though

He was there, no on questioned him putting in work

People on the front lines got lynched, sprayed with water, attacked by dogs and killed.

Good on Bernie for fighting for a just cause, but is it is insulting the way people paint him as a "leader"

If the civil right movement failed, there was going to be a large cost to pay for the real people on the front lines. A cost people like Bernie's wouldn't have had to pay.

Why are you shadow boxing? 

 

[RustyShackleford]

-I don't see the point of this photo in relation to the last one. No one was questioning if Bernie Sander's participating in the Civil Rights Movement


-Second, Bernie is doing that interview to pander.


While I do feel he cares about black people being treated fairly, he has shown me he is probably has racially tone deaf as many of this supporters. But in a different way


He doesn't understand white supremacy, in all these years he never bother to learn anything about it, until he is pushed.


He is no where as bad as conservatives, he is better than most liberals, I honestly believe social democracy would help the black community a lot.


I believe him when he says he cars, but I don't when he says he understands.


-Hillary has a better understanding of how racism works in his country, her solutions are not better than Bernie's.


I'm voting based on policies, but I can see why some black folk she Bernie Sander's way of thinking more dangerous than Clinton's

I usually agree with you, but who the hell cares whether Bernie Sanders "cares" or "understands" "white supremacy"? 

First off, politicians pander and it speaks to the strength of the movement for black lives that he is actually pandering. Even if a politician did "understand" how racism operates, the plethora of interest group pressures on that President will force black people to constantly place pressure on the president to act on a concise political, economic, and social agenda that improves the conditions of black folk in this country. 

Secondly, yes Clinton has an understanding of how racism operates but largely because her husband presided over the largest increase in the federal and state prison population. She learned about anti-black racism while she was championing the 1994 Crime Control bill. She understands racism, largely because she played a part in institutionalizing it through the expansion of the carceral state. 

-So did Bernie, he vote for that crime bill, after he openly acknowledge it would hurt black people. So **** both of them on that.

-Secondly, it matters if someone understand how white supremacy works.

Because if you're gonna imply that social democracy is gonna solve most of the black communities problems, yet ignore the fact that white supremacy and social democracy can live in harmony. I have right to call him out on that

-I already said I voting for Sanders plenty of times, I was saying that to some black folk, a Clinton v. Bernie choice is a pick your poison type decision. And I can understand that way of thinking.

I can expand on this later, but yeah, "who the hell cares with someone understands white supremacy"

Well I care, tons of black people care. Everyone should care, especially Bernie supporters.

And that's dismissive attitude is why Bernie is struggling to make reasonable gain on Clinton within the black community

 

[RustyShackleford]

I didn't paint him as a "leader" of the movement or anything like that,just saying he was on the ground standing for what he believed in. How was he not on the front lines if he was being arrested??

I'm sure he would've gone through some of what you mentioned like a lot of civil rights "allies" did if he was in the South at that time. I still don't see the need to split up those that were trying to help the cause into different tiers when everyone's contribution was integral towards achieving some of the progress we have now.

He wouldn't have had to pay the large cost you're talking about just like any non black person wouldn't have,not sure how that's on him.

-He was not on the front lines because the Civil Rights movement was something that took decades to accomplish and was bloody and violent.

Bernie Sanders life wasn't at risk for doing what he did in the same manner black leaders were. To put him on the front lines is to downplay what the civil rights movement actually was

-And Bernie Sanders helped put black people in the ****** up place they are now.

Civil Rights gets done without Bernie, Clinton's crime law passed without Bernie

If Sanders supporters want him to get credit for the former, they shouldn't he get equal credit for the latter?

-And again, I have said this to you a million times. Bernie gets put heat on him because people expect better from him, because he claims to be better

Obama had to prove he was better than Hillary on black issues to get the black vote. So how is it unreasonable to ask the same of Bernie?

 

[RustyShackleford]

He wasn't on the front lines though He was there, no on questioned him putting in work


People on the front lines got lynched, sprayed with water, attacked by dogs and killed.


Good on Bernie for fighting for a just cause, but is it is insulting the way people paint him as a "leader"


If the civil right movement failed, there was going to be a large cost to pay for the real people on the front lines. A cost people like Bernie's wouldn't have had to pay.

Why are you shadow boxing? 

I have no idea what this is even suppose to mean

 

[obeahmyal7]

-So did Bernie, he vote for that crime bill, after he openly acknowledge it would hurt black people. So **** both of them on that.

-Secondly, it matters if someone understand how white supremacy works.

Because if you're gonna imply that social democracy is gonna solve most of the black communities problems, yet ignore the fact that white supremacy and social democracy can live in harmony. I have right to call him out on that

-I already said I voting for Sanders plenty of times, I was saying that to some black folk, a Clinton v. Bernie choice is a pick your poison type decision. And I can understand that way of thinking.

I can expand on this later, but yeah, "who the hell cares with someone understands white supremacy"

Well I care, tons of black people care. Everyone should care, especially Bernie supporters.

And that's dismissive attitude is why Bernie is struggling to make reasonable gain on Clinton within the black community

Great point on Bernie supporting the 1994 bill. 

This question about the relationship between white supremacy and social democracy is complex, but I think the main point is this. Bernie Sanders has put forward a socially democratic plan that calls for a dramatic expansion of the welfare state. He believes that through universal policy programs (health, college education, etc.) we can solve wealth inequality. As I understand him, the reason he is for universal policies is not because he thinks they will be the antidote to white supremacy or solve the problems facing black people in this country. I think his views are more complicated than the kind of white leftist class not race, universal not particular, mode of argumentation. He views reparations, for instance, as divisive--and, in terms of selling the idea to white working- and middle-class voters upon whom he depends--it is. 

When understood as more than just a slogan and as the top layer of variable, historically contingent political economic regimes, white supremacy is quite complicated. I actually don't think most people understand how the varieties of white supremacy operate and so I have a hard time buying the whole "tons of black people care." It relies on an abstract slogan to make an argument that is really no more than a generalization. 

 

[cl-1b]

It's one thing to disagree with such high federal marginal income tax rates, which, by the way have historical precedent. 

It's another to call this form of wealth distribution communism. It is not and you do yourself a disservice by drinking the Kool-Aid.

that man hangs a soviet flag in his office

 

[Armada]

Your posts reek of hubris.

 

[obeahmyal7]

that man hangs a soviet flag in his office

When I read your post I thought of the fantastic response by a white, baptist from South Carolina.

When responding to the recent dispute between Trump and Pope Francis, Harry Jones said, "The Pope is a nutcase.” He continued,  “All they are is a cult. They’re not Christians. He’s a zero. He’s a commie. He’s as useless as **** on a boar hog.”

Your family reunion is right around the corner. 

 

[rillo561]

 

[blco02]

Bernie actually honeymooned in the Soviet Union(!). He also visited Cuba and attended celebrations for the Sandanista revolution in Nicaragua.

It's not that crazy to say he has communist sympathies. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[blco02]

Sanders Accepts Clinton’s Challenge on Wall Street Speeches

ELKO, Nev. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders’ campaign on Friday urged Hillary Clinton to keep her word and release the transcripts of speeches she gave to Wall Street firms “when everybody else does.”

“Sen. Sanders accepts Clinton’s challenge. He will release all of the transcripts of all of his Wall Street speeches. That’s easy. The fact is, there weren’t any. Bernie gave no speeches to Wall Street firms. He wasn’t paid anything while Secretary Clinton made millions, including $675,000 for three paid speeches to Goldman Sachs,” said Sanders’ spokesman Michael Briggs.


https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-accepts-clintons-challenge-on-wall-street-speeches/

 

[slighted]

Sanders Accepts Clinton’s Challenge on Wall Street Speeches

ELKO, Nev. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders’ campaign on Friday urged Hillary Clinton to keep her word and release the transcripts of speeches she gave to Wall Street firms “when everybody else does.”

“Sen. Sanders accepts Clinton’s challenge. He will release all of the transcripts of all of his Wall Street speeches. That’s easy. The fact is, there weren’t any. Bernie gave no speeches to Wall Street firms. He wasn’t paid anything while Secretary Clinton made millions, including $675,000 for three paid speeches to Goldman Sachs,” said Sanders’ spokesman Michael Briggs.


https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-accepts-clintons-challenge-on-wall-street-speeches/

I'm all for Hillary giving speeches to Wall St. firms.

Why's that a big deal? Note that I'm biased because I work in the industry.

 

[rillo561]

8+ years and you guys are still beating the Communist drum, I guess it's better than saying "we're giving stuff away"

 

[obeahmyal7]

Bernie actually honeymooned in the Soviet Union(!). He also visited Cuba and attended celebrations for the Sandanista revolution in Nicaragua.

It's not that crazy to say he has communist sympathies. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Oh brother. It wouldn't be a "party" without you.