***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[rillo561]

Just waking up and hearing about the pardoning news

At a lost for words.

 

[aepps20]

So the Trump supporters should support Mayweather tonight right?

An undefeated American legend who tells it how it is going against some overrated loud mouth classless foreigner who lacks respect. I'd be greatly disappointed if "Real America" isn't pulling for an undefeated American champ.

WE PULLING FOR























TEAM MCGREGOR ALL THE WAY.

Connor is a REAL AMERICAN THAT tells It like It is. Mayweather is a loudmouth that doesn't RESPECT authority.

 

[whywesteppin]

Connor is a REAL AMERICAN THAT tells It like It is. Mayweather is a loudmouth that doesn't RESPECT authority.

i keep asking Mayweather: where are you from? no, where are you REALLY from?

 

[aepps20]

i keep asking Mayweather: where are you from? no, where are you REALLY from?

I didn't see him at Barson's cookout when Herman spoke. Stacey was there, Steven Harvey was there, Jim Brown was there, LaShaun McCoy was there, Rusty was there with Tomi, Ray Lewis was there in his white suit, Alan Keyes was there but Floyd Mayweather wasn't there.

 

[whywesteppin]

I didn't see him at Barson's cookout when Herman spoke. Stacey was there, Steven Harvey was there, Jim Brown was there, LaShaun McCoy was there, Rusty was there with Tomi, Ray Lewis was there in his white suit, Alan Keyes was there but Floyd Mayweather wasn't there.

WAS PARIS DENARD THERE?

i did see some photos. Rusty was looking very dapper.

 

[Belgium]

Da census is looming b
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f373b3977ee_story.html?utm_term=.2d55d1ce6bac

Vincent P. Barabba, a member of the California Citizens Redistricting Commission, was census director from 1973 to 1976 and from 1979 to 1981. Kenneth Prewitt, a professor at Columbia University, was census director from 1998 to 2001.

The census, one of the most important activities our government undertakes, is under threat by uncertain funding and a leadership vacuum at a crucial moment. As former directors of the U.S. Census Bureau, serving in both Republican and Democratic administrations, we urge President Trump to act swiftly and the Senate to cooperate in naming a new director as the 2020 Census nears.

The immediate task is to nominate someone who can provide stability through the final years of the decade, explain the importance of the agency’s mission compellingly, address Congress’s fiscal concerns and be ready for full immersion in the important tasks at hand.

Equally important is a serious increase in funding for next year, ramping up further in 2019. This is a critical period in which to begin operations, including well-researched advertising messages, staffing and training an army of temporary workers, opening field offices and testing new technology. The Census Bureau cannot do any of this at the last minute, just as the Defense Department cannot prepare for military action when a threat is imminent.

The decennial census — the once- a-decade effort to count every person living in the United States — is an enormous and complex task. It is specifically required by the U.S. Constitution because it is essential to our representative government. Census data will be used to determine how many U.S. representatives each state gets and to draw voting districts for the House, state legislatures, city councils and school boards.


More than $600 billion a year for vital services such as highway construction, low-income energy assistance, maternal and child health, and food assistance flows to states and communities based on census-derived data. Nonprofit agencies and businesses rely on census data to evaluate population trends and community conditions and to target their services and investments effectively.

The Census Bureau is in the critical phase of preparing for its “dress rehearsal.” It must occur on schedule, and it must be robust enough to thoroughly test procedures new to Census 2020. These include the first-ever option to respond to the census online and to equip census takers with Internet-connected devices to save time and dramatically cut paperwork.

New procedures and technology — deployed for the first time from start to finish — will have glitches that can be fixed if found in 2018, but that opportunity will rapidly pass, even if sufficient funds are provided. The Air Force does not send a new fighter plane directly from the assembly line to the front lines, skipping the test phase. Neither should we expect the census to field new procedures without thorough testing.

The 2020 Census faces unprecedented challenges in collecting data, including fear of government authorities in immigrant communities, cybersecurity threats (real or perceived) and uneven access to reliable Internet service, which could disadvantage rural, low-income and older households. The nation needs a Census Bureau director with the capabilities to navigate these minefields credibly and deliberately. He or she must have the confidence of public officials from both sides of the political aisle, at all levels of government, as well as the confidence of the American public.

In 2011, Congress passed a law that requires the census director to “have a demonstrated ability in managing large organizations and experience in the collection, analysis and use of statistical data.” The law calls for the director to serve a renewable five-year term to ensure continuity in planning and operations and to help make the Census Bureau effective, accountable and less susceptible to partisan pressures. In fact, the law specifically calls for the nomination of a candidate “without regard to political affiliation,” signaling that the census director’s objectivity is vital to ensuring confidence in the agency’s statistics and methods.

It is encouraging that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross appointed interim leaders for the Census Bureau from among the agency’s dedicated, experienced career staff. But they cannot wield the credibility and influence that a permanent director can have across the administration and before Congress and the American people.

There will be no second chance to get the 2020 Census right. Delayed funding cannot make up for preparation that should already be underway. We will all live with the results for a decade. The health of our democracy — and the well-being of individuals, families and communities — requires our elected leaders to find common ground and serve the common good. Identifying, nominating and confirming a qualified, trustworthy director for the U.S. Census Bureau must be a top priority for administration and Senate leaders.

The post's editorial board view on the census (May 11):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...7_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.8e4bfd277d5a

 

[reputory]

So the Trump supporters should support Mayweather tonight right?

An undefeated American legend who tells it how it is going against some overrated loud mouth classless foreigner who lacks respect. I'd be greatly disappointed if "Real America" isn't pulling for an undefeated American champ.

America does not condone wife beating or the vile disrespect he showed towards the Mexican culture

Also America does not condone somebody who can't read 1 page of a Harry Potter book for charity

Even when they changed it to be cat in a hat he decided not to do it smh

 

[green rhino123]

Da census is looming b
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f373b3977ee_story.html?utm_term=.2d55d1ce6bac

This Belgian dude breathing down our necks over our census. LOL
Like, isn't this one issue you can take a back seat on?

 

[AEA18]

This Belgian dude breathing down our necks over our census. LOL
Like, isn't this one issue you can take a back seat on?

It's a jab @ da ninja

 

[gry60]

What exactly does the DOE do?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/department-of-energy-risks-michael-lewis

MacWilliams explains, patiently, that there lately have been signs that the risk of some kind of attack by North Korea is increasing. The missiles the North Koreans have been firing into the sea are not the absurd acts of a lunatic mind but experiments. Obviously, the D.O.E. is not the only agency inside the U.S. government trying to make sense of these experiments, but the people inside the national labs are the world’s most qualified to determine just what North Korea’s missiles can do. “For a variety of reasons the risk curve has changed,” says MacWilliams guardedly. “The risks of mistakes being made and lots of people being killed is increasing dramatically. It wouldn’t necessarily be a nuclear weapon they might deliver. It could be sarin gas.”

As he doesn’t want to go into further detail and maybe divulge information I am not cleared to hear, I press him to move on. “O.K., give me the third risk on your list.”

“This is in no particular order,” he says with remarkable patience. “But Iran is somewhere in the top five.” He’d watched Secretary Moniz help negotiate the deal that removed from Iran the capacity to acquire a nuclear weapon. There were only three paths to a nuclear weapon. The Iranians might produce enriched uranium—but that required using centrifuges. They might produce plutonium—but that required a reactor that the deal had dismantled and removed. Or they might simply go out and buy a weapon on the open market. The national labs played a big role in policing all three paths. “These labs are incredible national resources, and they are directly responsible for keeping us safe,” said MacWilliams. “It’s because of them that we can say with absolute certainty that Iran cannot surprise us with a nuclear weapon.” After the deal was done, U.S. Army officers had approached D.O.E. officials to thank them for saving American lives. The deal, they felt sure, had greatly lessened the chance of yet another war in the Middle East that the United States would inevitably be dragged in

The safety of the electrical grid sat at or near the top of the list of concerns of everyone I spoke with inside the D.O.E. Life in America has become, increasingly, reliant on it. “Food and water has become food and water and electricity,” as one D.O.E. career staffer put it. Back in 2013 there had been an incident in California that got everyone’s attention. Late one night, just southeast of San Jose, at Pacific Gas and Electric’s Metcalf substation, a well-informed sniper, using a .30-caliber rifle, had taken out 17 transformers. Someone had also cut the cables that enabled communication to and from the substation. “They knew exactly what lines to cut,” said Tarak Shah, who studied the incident for the D.O.E. “They knew exactly where to shoot. They knew exactly which manhole covers were relevant—where the communication lines were. These were feeder stations to Apple and Google.” There had been enough backup power in the area that no one noticed the outage, and the incident came and went quickly from the news. But, Shah said, “for us it was a wake-up call.” In 2016 the D.O.E. counted half a million cyber-intrusions into various parts of the U.S. electrical grid. “It’s one thing to put your head in the sand for climate change—it’s like mañana,” says Ali Zaidi, who served in the White House as Obama’s senior adviser on energy policy. “This is here and now. We actually don’t have a transformer reserve. They’re like these million-dollar things. Seventeen transformers getting shot up in California is not like, Oh, we’ll just fix the problem. Our electric-grid assets are growingly vulnerable.”

And we got morons playing around with the department budget...

 

[aepps20]

WAS PARIS DENARD THERE?

i did see some photos. Rusty was looking very dapper.

PARIS made an appearance towards the end of the speech but RUSTY gave him the COAL Hands and he left shortly thereafter.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The issue is not all of the criminal justice system, it is about the power of the pardon at the executive level.

Barack didn't need any magic to liberate thousands upon thousands of political "drug" prisoners. All he needed was a signature.

Would conservatives have complained and called him soft on crime? you bet, they did so anyway. Would Republicans in Congress complain and grandstand, oh yeah but they do that any way. Would socially conservative whites have abandoned the Democratic coalition due to their racial anxiety? no doubt but they already have done so.

We have to ask, how do you engage and mobilize young people and people of color, especially men of color who currently have little or no attachment to the political process? How about sticking it to law enforcement, prosecutors and decades of "tough on crime" politics all in one fell swoop.

Yeah some progressives may not have cared but plenty of woke white folks and damn near every black and brown person would be energized and elated at the sight of Barack Obama playing the role of Moses and leading greatest mass liberation of enslaved people since the days of Lincoln.

And yes, I would demand the same from any white or Asian or Latino person who calls themselves a Democrat and ever happens to enjoy the immense power of the pardon, duly granted to every United States President, to liberate the thousands of human beings unjustly ensnared in the jaws of the Federal Leviathan.


Edit: I get worked up over this topic because criminal justice, especially as it relates to drug laws, is what got me started in my interest in social justice.

Drug Laws are an injustice so clear and so obvious for all to see that even most libertarians know about it (in fact it often times is the gateway that pulls people from libertarianism to leftism)


Seeing Donald Trump use his uncheckable, completely legal powers, to reward his base and to pardon one of the faces of our draconian criminal justice system reminded me of what a missed opportunity the left had. we had someone who was one of our own, holding that executive pen and he, for whatever reason, was unable to smash the "crown jewel" of "tough on crime" politics, the mandatory minimums that enslave thousands of people, for decades all because they sold some vegetable matter.

-Ok, let us walk through this. You wanted Obama to make mass pardon, fine, that is fair. If you want to recenter the issue on pardons, then someone other things need to be set straight. To be fair if he had done it on his last day as a massive F-U I would have cheered on the move too.

First you tried to make the argument that Obama didn't pardon people in mass because he was unaware of how the system works. Then you abandon that stance to he did know, so that makes man's actions shameful. You try to make the argument that it would have keep the base happy. But then from where I am looking at it, you just shrank his base. Then it was all people in prison for drug crimes, then it was people serving life sentences.

So, if you wanna make sure I say on topic I must as, it is Ochie Wallie or One Mic? You're kinda moving the goal post as you see fit too.

-Now the issue of timing has to be brought up. Because Obama ended up with over 1700 clemencies, with over 500 of them being lifers, and his most high profile one being Manning at that came right at the end . One thing I do agree with is that he should have started the program from the time he came into office. He started it only around 2014 when his last push for reforms in Congress died. He didn't need them in 2009 to do that, so point taken. But then again, if Obama go your route, would you really think that it goes smoothly in 2009 or 2010. You blow off the opinions of conservatives, but in 2009-2010, Obama still had a ton of Blue Dogs to worry about. And progressives still had to say there were tough on crime.

Words are one thing, but actions say a bunch too. Obama as a black president, could not even get the full support of his party to call out the Tea Party for what they were. I had to see these white nationalist and bigots come to my city spewing all kinds of hate, then see conservatives use that bigotry to fuel a resistance against Obama, but to make matters worst, many progressive in Congress called these clowns concerned citizens and used this weird narrative that if Obama was more left, these white nationalist struggle libertarian movement would not be coming at Obama's and the Dems throat.

One thing Democrats love to do is mix their messages. So while Obama pardons all those people, he still would be attacked from his own party as a) Not left enough because of other issues and b) An over zealous authoritarian. Yes, many in the base would rally around him (the ones you mentioned), but the coalition would splinter like crazy. Within Congress and on the ground.

-Now there is the argument you are making that Obama needs to go above and beyond Trump, to even get the same respect as him on this issue. This move by Trump appeases his his ****** up white supremacist base. However, Trump like a ******* coward pardons this dude on a Friday before a hurricane is about to hit and take over the news. You're telling me for Barrack Obama to be on the same level as this action he needed to issue mass pardons. Really? I know you don't like when Obama's race is brought up but you don't think it is fair to point out that a brother needs to go way more to be seen as doing the same. And I'm not even trying to implying about you personally. And I get you hold people on the left to a higher standard, I just want you to consider he optics of this argument for a second.

-An issue is important to you, but you started out talking about ideology, then making the argument about the political gains Obama could have had on the left if he had done it. Making a pure argument for justice is one thing, but let us keep it all the way #1HUNNA about the fallout from such a move. There would have been major blow-back, EVEN AMONG THE LEFT, if he went that route. Yes many would celebrate, even me, but I'm not gonna delude myself that their will not be a political price to pay. I believe you when you say you would make the same request of any other president, but when it comes to Obama I still think you make the mistake of talking about him like he is a liberal president who happens to be black.

There is more to these subjects but keeping it short: We got the Tea Party because Obama was black, we got voter ID laws because Obama was black, the GOP abandoned nearly all their reasonable positions because Obama was black, progressive in Congress refused to defend him probably because he was black, centrist through him under the bus because he was black. We got Donald Trump because Obama was black. Nawghty is not mad Obama did make strong arm moves on pardons because he thinks Obama is a leftist, he is mad because Obama is black. Him being black would have made this move toxic to majority of the overall voter base. Monday morning quarterbacking it now, it is easy to say "welp he should have known better" but at the time he was trying to keep a fragile coalition together to do as much as he could, when you are black. He didn't have to be magical to sign those orders, but he would have to be magical to prevent the Dem coalition going boom if did it in the summer of 2009 (given all the other **** the country was dealing with). The positive and negative fallout from this will be shaped because he is black. Not because he is a liberal

Finally, like someone once said, the deserve for justice is not a scare resource, I want justice for those people too. My thirst for social justice didn't start for because of an interest in the the laws of the country. The first time I felt the warm hood of a cop car against the side my face as a kid did it. But excuse me if I take issue with a leftist making it seem like it would have been just that easy for a brother to pull off someone that big. And then saying that would have made him par with Trump's one bigotry fueled pardon.

*****BTW, I'm sure quite a few libertarians have join the left because of their disgust over our drug laws and criminal justice system. But quite a many more are able to hate our criminal justice system yet still support a system of white supremacy. They just treat it like a insecure 30 something treats the January 1st. Instead of new year new me, it is new generation new system of oppression.

 

[RustyShackleford]

This Belgian dude breathing down our necks over our census. LOL
Like, isn't this one issue you can take a back seat on?

The joke went over your head b

 

[RustyShackleford]

General comment;

While Obama's infinite faith in America's institutions have frustrated me many times, I understand where it is coming from.

Barack Obama at his core wants America's institutions to perform well for citizens, all citizens. He constantly tells young kids that you can change the institutions to function better if you try change them. The right has succeeded in eroding the country's faith in what government intervention can do. Not only in the realm of civil rights but economic matters. And they are masterful at this. Cut money to a government agency, watch them struggle to make change, then tell people "Look how ineffective government is". This was their play with the ACA, the IRS, the INS, you name it. Then you have their overall hostility towards independent agencies that they can't bend to their will. And to that the abysmal amount of civics the commons citizen knows, and you have a massive problem.

Also, I can to say that liberals of all varieties have developed a daddy complex when it comes to the President in comparison to other branches of government. Yes it the big seat but people get way to comfortable when a liberal is in the White House. They allow the right to have Congress, and as a result the Supreme Court. Allow the right to control governor mansions, and State Houses and allow white supremacist to be state attorney generals. Black majority cities can't raise their minimum wage, increase voting access, or take down racist *** Confederate statues because the right control the State government.

The government conspiring in your favor can be a powerful thing. I wish everyone that leans left realized this. Have faith that our institutions can work for the middle class and poor if you have the right people in right places, and understand how the system works. Not let ignorance fuel your frustrations

 

[Belgium]

This Belgian dude breathing down our necks over our census. LOL
Like, isn't this one issue you can take a back seat on?

I'll refer you to the above comments in response ^
But on a broader note, I understand that a foreigner who spends a lot of time discussing US politics is occasionally gonna rub people the wrong way. That is not my intent and I try to be mindful of that. I have no objections to anyone commenting on my country if they wish to do so, and they should feel free to do so. Whether it's positive, negative, ...
As for the breathing down your neck part, I'd suggest not putting much value in my views/opinions if you feel that way and if necessary the block option is always there. It's always good to be upfront about it if you feel like I'm out of line. Again, I do try to be mindful of that.

 

[aepps20]

I'll refer you to the above comments in response ^
But on a broader note, I understand that a foreigner who spends a lot of time discussing US politics is occasionally gonna rub people the wrong way. That is not my intent and I try to be mindful of that. I have no objections to anyone commenting on my country if they wish to do so, and they should feel free to do so. Whether it's positive, negative, ...
As for the breathing down your neck part, I'd suggest not putting much value in my views/opinions if you feel that way and if necessary the block option is always there. It's always good to be upfront about it if you feel like I'm out of line. Again, I do try to be mindful of that.

Your EXCELLENT work on the COAL TRAIN IS WHY YOU ARE A REAL AMERICAN.

 

[Belgium]

Your EXCELLENT work on the COAL TRAIN IS WHY YOU ARE A REAL AMERICAN.

COAL is the universal key to unity Comrade

 

[aepps20]

COAL is the universal key to unity Comrade

FAX UPON FAX MACHINE UPON FACSIMILE UPON ALT FAX FAM

 

[whywesteppin]

This Belgian dude breathing down our necks over our census. LOL
Like, isn't this one issue you can take a back seat on?

fam is breathing COAL DUST down your neck. put some respeck on his name.

nobody takes a back seat on the COAL TRAIN. except for minorities and women, but at least they get to BOARD THE COAL TRAIN, unlike the libbies who aren't even human i don't think.

this train has the passing lane power and it will stop in Belgium or Colombia, or both, to pick up all our COMRADES. vroom vroom! you Soros-funded libbies have SUCH DELICIOUS TEARS.

 

[aepps20]

COMRADE COLUMBIA aka Da BELGIUM stays schooling LIBBIES IN HERE. COLUMBIA and I both were born and raised in Bluffington. He moved to Belgium after Obummer shut down the Honker Burger. We both worked the COAL MINES UNDER THE BLUFFINGTON SCHOOL. We lost a lot of COMRADES. REAL AMERICANS like Chalky Studebaker, Roger Klotz, Skeeter VALENTINE AND Mr. DINK. SMH WOW FOREVER.

 

[RustyShackleford]

COMRADE COLUMBIA aka Da BELGIUM stays schooling LIBBIES IN HERE. COLUMBIA and I both were born and raised in Bluffington. He moved to Belgium after Obummer shut down the Honker Burger. We both worked the COAL MINES UNDER THE BLUFFINGTON SCHOOL. We lost a lot of COMRADES. REAL AMERICANS like Chalky Studebaker, Roger Klotz, Skeeter VALENTINE AND Mr. DINK. SMH WOW FOREVER.

If OHSA was around, and y'all had a strong union, that would have never happened b.

 

[rexanglorum]

Look, you make some good points but you're missing the big picture.

Democrats simply practice bad politics by telling their people to expect very little even when they win elections. It feels like elections have major consequences when Republicans win and they have very limited consequences when Democrats win.

This assymetry in pardons drives it all home. This Arpaio pardon is a huge deal. He is telling his base "thank you, here's a reward." He is also rewriting immigration enforcement with this pardon.

I see how bold Trump is with his pardoning power and I cannot help but think of how self restrained President Obama was with his. And BTW how was Barack Obama rewarded? Did Republicans soften their stance, did he get any political capital in exchange for short changing his base?

BTW, if Obama's use of the pardon power is what we can expect from future Democratic President, then let's just be honest that "criminal justice" is just another establishment ruse used to avoid talking about the economy. We were told that Wall Street was "just a street" and that the real priority was "criminal justice reform." When the Democratic establishment talks of criminal justice reform what they really means is "shut up about the economy and just be satisfied with a few hundred pardons, also please send us more money."

 

[IATT]

 

[aepps20]

If OHSA was around, and y'all had a strong union, that would have never happened b.

EXCELLENT post as usual Suspects COMRADE. RUSTY fooling LIBBIES. We all saw his DAPPER pic with Tomi.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Look, you make some good points but you're missing the big picture.

Democrats simply practice bad politics by telling their people to expect very little even when they win elections. It feels like elections have major consequences when Republicans win and they have very limited consequences when Democrats win.

This assymetry in pardons drives it all home. This Arpaio pardon is a huge deal. He is telling his base "thank you, here's a reward." He is also rewriting immigration enforcement with this pardon.

I see how bold Trump is with his pardoning power and I cannot help but think of how self restrained President Obama was with his. And BTW how was Barack Obama rewarded? Did Republicans soften their stance, did he get any political capital in exchange for short changing his base?

BTW, if Obama's use of the pardon power is what we can expect from future Democratic President, then let's just be honest that "criminal justice" is just another establishment ruse used to avoid talking about the economy. We were told that Wall Street was "just a street" and that the real priority was "criminal justice reform." When the Democratic establishment talks of criminal justice reform what they really means is "shut up about the economy and just be satisfied with a few hundred pardons, also please send us more money."

Excuse me what big picture I'm I missing. It seems like you just moved the goal post again, to tell me I'm missing the point.

-Trump promised the world and the realities of politics slapped him back mostly, same thing happened to Obama to a degree. Trump's pardon is a symbolic victory for his base, sure, but argue your point by still acting like Obama not being some revolutionary makes him fall short of Trump.The asymmetry also drives home the point you are holding Obama to a higher standard, and trying your best to deny that you are..

And I don't give two real ****s about the GOP but let us not act like that is the only groups that will have a bad reaction to your suggestion. The same white working class voter in the Midwest that the far left love to fawn over will also react poorly. This economic anxiety talking point has not aged well, more and more it is looking like those flip voters had bigoted views and Trump's rhetoric prime them to look for scapegoats not solutions. These people are the ones that I should believe would have been energized by Obama doing what you suggested? If that is the case then you got way more faith in white people than I do.

You want me to put that aside for the moment, fine. We will just not fine common ground on this

-Let me keep it real. The far left likes to practice its own brand of bad politics. One that mirrors the GOP, forever comfortable in the minority position, conveniently ignoring the realities of actually governing when the time comes. Acting like solutions are so simple, and that the Democrats just for some reason refuse to do them. Sorry I forgot, they are all corrupt, of neoliberals, or naive, coward technocrats, whatever.

The far left wants to speak of this world were Democrats only feed pragmatism their base over what they can do is just an excuse to short change them. When the facts remains most systemic changes hinge on the 60th, or 51st in Congress. (and don't come back with you are talking about pardon and executive power because you already expanded the discussion beyond that by bring up the Democratic Party). When push comes to shove, often times it looks like the far left seems to value purity over actually helping people.

-And if criminal justice reform is such a ******* ruse by the establishment then why was the far left scrambling to catch up to the establishment on the issue. Why did the far left even bother if the real problem was the economy anyway. Both Obama and Clinton both messaged on the economy more that anything else in their campaigns, they also acknowledged the criminal justice system is ****** up. These tons of woke white folk you claim to be walking around didn't give two ****s when their preferred candidate last cycle acted oblivious to the plight of minorities. When those woke white folk were sending off those $26 donations I wonder how many stopped to think about that.

But of course, that was just a ruse to tell the voting base don't worry about the economy, because the implication here is all people like Obama feel all that is sufficient is a couple of pardons (that is bs implication too). So it this is so important to progressives, how about for a change they actually take the lead on this, because I don't see it. You condemn one faction of the coalition, yet let the other side off when they are just as complicit.

-If you want some populist left wing strong man that will give no dambs are the political cost of his actions to further the left wing cause, then fine, that is you right, and after Trump that is somewhat more reasonable to request. But I am not going to indulge you in some alternative reality game of find the point, because you are upset Barrack Obama was the pragmatic liberal he presented himself to be, and not the far left Moses you wanted him to be, scratch that, you now wish he was.