***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/8/16865730/national-review-stop-and-frisk-police

A conservative columnist admits it: “We were wrong about stop-and-frisk”
After stop-and-frisk ended, crime in New York City kept dropping

But, but, but .....

An NYC native told me that stop-n-frisk saved NYC, and black people should have been thankful that their civil rights were violated.

I mean I can't be possibly true that crime has gone down in NYC since this racist practiced program has ended. That goes against everything Papi Bloomberg and Giuliani warns us about.

Where are my brahs @wavycrocket and RIP sleazyy to help me make sense of dis.

And to all I have to say to these conservative journalist is............"Have you ever been a victim of armed robbery."

 

[elpablo21]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I could care less about white people within the Democratic Party. My concern is about poor people and yes, poor people are ignored within the Democratic Party. To me, nominating a billionaire with no clear policy goals or experience shows a degree of frivolity that signals much deeper issues.

Ya know we always get lectured about intersectionality by Democratic elites ( and some leftists do need those lectures) but there is very little introspection about the wealth off professionals and retirees who form the elite of the center left coalition. You cannot be intersectional without reckoning with social class. The rhetorical trick among the establishment is to call any mention of wealth, income and social class "marxist reductivism."

Within the discourse of the Democratic Party, a social class free dialectic has been so hegemonic that even modest inroads on the part of Marxist analysis are seen as a complete takeover of the discourse.

Now, I do not expect black and brown folks to rush to support Bernie, he has issues of his own. I understand or try to understand why black and brown folks tended to support Clinton. 2016 offered up a very limited range of choices. Going forward, with more choices, I wonder why people of color, who are not wealthy (and due to America History, you are more likely to be poor if you are not white) would preemptively lower expectations and accept a bundled package of neoliberalism and modest civil rights reforms when surely we can find someone who can be a whole lot better at both.

Your objection throughout this argument was that you and other leftists would abandon the Democratic party if a novice like Oprah is nominated.

Even if Oprah runs, we have no idea what her platform will be. You cannot call her an elite peddling neoliberalism and weak sauce civil rights policy because you do not know. You make a sweeping assumption regarding her and most importantly black voters. However, if you want to make that assumption based on recent events, fine. You already undermined your argument on “nonprofessional candidates” because you admitted that you would not have that objection if Oprah runs as a leftist. You don’t care about her competency; you care about her politics. That is fine, but that is not your original objection, now is it?

-You know the leftist coalition is a mainly white one. You also know the only path to a potential Oprah nomination. I didn’t claim you only care about white people. I told you to be honest about the racial implication of the argument you were making. You understand what racial politics are at play so please don’t run behind a, “it is not about race it is about class” argument now.

-You wanted to make sure it was clear you were not defending the shortcomings of any leftist candidates. But it now you seem comfortable too with attacking center-left ones like I am defending all their actions. I damn sure didn't advocate for Oprah, I just called out how entitled your comment sounded.

But since you opened that door about leftist thought being rejected, let me inform you of something I wonder about:

I wonder why leftist of all types, primarily white ones, sit back in amazement when black folk doesn’t support these crappy leftist candidates, who BTW pitch the same level of civil rights policy as liberals.

I wonder if anyone thinks back to Jesse Jackson’s leftist campaign, someone that was rejected all over the “white working class areas” (or as Bernie and Lizzy regard as the “da base”) but was welcomed in the black neoliberalism South. It is kind of like when black folk doesn't think they populism being sold to them is a finesse move; they are open to it. White poor and middle-class people would vote against their self-interest just because a black man was pushing it.

I wonder if Jackson is ignored openly said he was policies were to empower all poor people especially black people, while the leftist of today wants an implicit deal. That they don’t need to address justice (economics, social, civil, you name it) directly, for fear it scares away essential swing voters.

I wonder why leftist love to pat Bernie supporters on the back and say more of them voted for Clinton than Clinton 2008 voters voted for Obama. Failing to mention that the 2008 Clinton campaign's racial demographics mirror the Sanders' 2016 campaign. So maybe many voters felt more comfortable voting a white woman than they did a black man. Also, John McCain 2008 was white supremacy put not in the same vile form Trump 2016 was. Like I said, saying innocuous stuff and leaving out the racial aspect.

I wonder why leftist political imagination expands far and wide when it comes to every subject, except direct programs for minorities.

I wonder why leftist tolerate their outlets attacking so-called “liberal black elites” with other black elites that just share their point of view, and claim that it is for the good of poor blacks. I so adore the “Black elites like Barrack Obama are bad for black people, and I’m not racist saying this…..here is a black Ivy league educated college professor that agrees with me" articles. A play right out of the conservative handbook.

I wonder why when those clowns on Chapo are so popular when they basically say that the only good minorities are ones that are leftist. I mean what is the point of diversity if those minorities are going to disagree with you, right?

I wonder why unions are championed and panaceas to inequality when unions were known also be one of the biggest perpetrators of white supremacy back in the day. Like when is the last time you heard a leftist talk about sending the DOJ after unions to make sure they were not perpetrating acts of discriminations.

I wonder why leftist have no come out and said they were straight up wrong for trying to excuse the bigotry of voters with "economics anxiety."

I again wonder why they won’t even really try to win the minority vote beyond just smearing liberals.

I wonder why they want to rebuild their movement on the backs of racist voters that voted them out in the first place for warming up to Civil Rights policy.

I wonder why the engage in nostalgia politics so much

I wonder why the wax poetic about the New Deal, something draped in racial injustice

I wonder why they shallowly peddle their own version of MLK to gain favor with black voters. Another conservative favorite

I wonder why Barrack Obama is a neoliberal token who was secretly against black people, that black people should reject, and should stop using the race card to defend until they need to use Obama's race as a shield for criticism and attack the right.

And I wonder why they think minorities can't see them doing all of this.

And please don’t try to play it off as a couple of bad politicians, because this buffoonery is widespread on the “the left.” So I wonder why the conclusion is never "damn, American leftist are kinda tone deaf **** too" Nope, it falls all on minority voters I guess.

But you know what, you don’t have to answer a damn thing about anything I said. You don’t have to answer for the crimes and shortcomings of the modern day leftist movement because you are not guilty of everything they do, even though it seems I must do so for all the **** the center-left puts out there.

I just wonder when leftist will collectively get their heads out their asses, stop being so ******* lazy and petulant, and try for once to try to expand their coalition. And not cry that it isn't handed to them

But they, as I said, if the antagonization from black voters is too much to take come next cycle, I hope my Leftist Brothers live their best life in 2020 and....

Bounce

 

[RIP sleazyy]

But, but, but .....

A NYC native told me that stop-n-frisk saved NYC, and black people should have been thankful that their civil rights were violated.

I mean I can't be possibly true that crime has gone down in NYC since this racist practiced program has ended. That goes against everything Papi Bloomberg and Giuliani warns us about.

Where is my brahs @wavycrocket and RIP sleazyy to help me make sense of dis.

And all I have to say to these conservative journalist is............"Have you even been a victim of armed robbery"

"We tried to tell yall" strikes again

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I just wonder when leftist will collectively get their heads out their asses, stop being so ****ing lazy and petulant, and try for once to try to expand their coalition. Not cry that it isn't handed to them

It's almost like some kinda feeling of....... privilege is at play there

 

[d nice]

It's amazing how we're still having trouble building broad based coalitions despite the fact that people like Fred Hampton, Dubois, Angela Davis, Ella Baker and others gave us the blueprint to follow for future elections.

Left spaces are all too comfortable downplaying or outright ignoring the work black folks have historically and presently put in on the left. And make no mistake about it, this **** don't move without the mobilization of Black and POC period.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It's almost like some kinda feeling of....... privilege is at play there

Listen of all the people I rant about, I agree most with leftist.

They are fundamentally right about what is wrong with this country on nearly everything.

Yet they insist they must not be asked to do the fundamental work of coalition building.

Like to sit back and wonder "Why do black people act this way" and get frustrated is some right wing sucka sit. Even worst some of the conclusion they present mirror right wing talking points.

They need to come off that.

 

[hipstermike]

I wouldn't vote Jedi for ****. Tone def, arrogant and inept.

dont you wish for more variety?

why focus on just jedi? the point is more than just 2 viewpoints exist

 

[rexanglorum]

Rusty, I mostly agree and yes, it is unfair for you to have to defend everything that the center left does when your policy views are often times to the left of them. When I read your views on public education, labor markets, human capital, higher education, housing, healthcare etc. you are no where near neoliberalism.

The one area where I disagree is the idea that Sanders, Warren et al. are nefarious when they mention the New Deal or the decades after World War II. I am sure that you know that a popular conservative tactic is to claim that a fairer society is simply impossible and that while they might like to make jobs pay more or to make education more affordable, there simply isn't ever going to be enough money to do so. When you mentions the New Deal, it is a way of reminding conservatives "if you want to see affordable schooling, housing and higher wages you need not look to Europe or to some utopian future, you can look back into out own history, to a time that you guys lionize as being better, a tougher, more elegant and more authentic time, in your estimation, was capable of cheaply delivering those pillars of middle class life for large swaths of the population."

Now in discourse among the left, we are quick to qualify the New Deal and mid Century with the fact that, large swaths of America was left out and that they were deliberately left out because of who they were.

When I mention 1950's America it is tell conservatives that the magical muscle car era was under girded by cheap housing, well funded schools, expanding infrastructure and high wages for a majority of whites. Vroom, vroom, b.



What you said about Jesse Jackson got me thinking. Conventional wisdom is that George HW Bush's walloping of Dukakis in the general election of 1988 changed our politics for a generation because Democrats saw it as necessary to adopt right wing policy positions. Perhaps it is the case that the white working class abandonment of the party due to Jesse Jackson's ascendancy is what really caused so much of the Democratic Party to abandon working class politics. I can see the thinking, non college whites had backed Republicans in three straight elections ('80, '84 and '8.

Lately, I have been saying that in a saner, more rational America, the white working class may have voted for Reagan in 1980 but they would have given Mondale major support in 1984 and during his reelection bid in 1988. If working class whites had not been enthrall to white supremacy and stayed in the Democratic Party, in may have been the case that in 1991-1992, the Democrat's rising star would have been Bernard Sanders, newly elected House member and firebrand from Vermont.

In a better and saner Universe, Bernie is thought of as a very effective President, a champion for the downtrodden and when he left office in January of 2001, he opened us up to a 21st Century which already has seen its first black and women president and the election of 2020 is seen as relatively low stakes event to see who America permanent governing coalition selects to continue the thirty years of good work on the part of our political class.

 

[aepps20]

Your objection throughout this argument was that you and other leftists would abandon the Democratic party if a novice like Oprah is nominated.

Even if Oprah runs, we have no idea what her platform will be. You cannot call her an elite peddling neoliberalism and weak sauce civil rights policy because you do not know. You make a sweeping assumption regarding her and most importantly black voters. However, if you want to make that assumption based on recent events, fine. You already undermined your argument on “nonprofessional candidates” because you admitted that you would not have that objection if Oprah runs as a leftist. You don’t care about her competency; you care about her politics. That is fine, but that is not your original objection, now is it?

-You know the leftist coalition is a mainly white one. You also know the only path to a potential Oprah nomination. I didn’t claim you only care about white people. I told you to be honest about the racial implication of the argument you were making. You understand what racial politics are at play so please don’t run behind a, “it is not about race it is about class” argument now.

-You wanted to make sure it was clear you were not defending the shortcomings of any leftist candidates. But it now you seem comfortable too with attacking center-left ones like I am defending all their actions. I damn sure didn't advocate for Oprah, I just called out how entitled your comment sounded.

But since you opened that door about leftist thought being rejected, let me inform you of something I wonder about:

I wonder why leftist of all types, primarily white ones, sit back in amazement when black folk doesn’t support these crappy leftist candidates, who BTW pitch the same level of civil rights policy as liberals.

I wonder if anyone thinks back to Jesse Jackson’s leftist campaign, someone that was rejected all over the “white working class areas” (or as Bernie and Lizzy regard as the “da base”) but was welcomed in the black neoliberalism South. It is kind of like when black folk doesn't think they populism being sold to them is a finesse move; they are open to it. White poor and middle-class people would vote against their self-interest just because a black man was pushing it.

I wonder if Jackson is ignored openly said he was policies were to empower all poor people especially black people, while the leftist of today wants an implicit deal. That they don’t need to address justice (economics, social, civil, you name it) directly, for fear it scares away essential swing voters.

I wonder why leftist love to pat Bernie supporters on the back and say more of them voted for Clinton than Clinton 2008 voters voted for Obama. Failing to mention that the 2008 Clinton campaign's racial demographics mirror the Sanders' 2016 campaign. So maybe many voters felt more comfortable voting a white woman than they did a black man. Also, John McCain 2008 was white supremacy put not in the same vile form Trump 2016 was. Like I said, saying innocuous stuff and leaving out the racial aspect.

I wonder why leftist political imagination expands far and wide when it comes to every subject, except direct programs for minorities.

I wonder why leftist tolerate their outlets attacking so-called “liberal black elites” with other black elites that just share their point of view, and claim that it is for the good of poor blacks. I so adore the “Black elites like Barrack Obama are bad for black people, and I’m not racist saying this…..here is a black Ivy league educated college professor that agrees with me" articles. A play right out of the conservative handbook.

I wonder why when those clowns on Chapo are so popular when they basically say that the only good minorities are ones that are leftist. I mean what is the point of diversity if those minorities are going to disagree with you, right?

I wonder why unions are championed and panaceas to inequality when unions were known also be one of the biggest perpetrators of white supremacy back in the day. Like when is the last time you heard a leftist talk about sending the DOJ after unions to make sure they were not perpetrating acts of discriminations.

I wonder why leftist have no come out and said they were straight up wrong for trying to excuse the bigotry of voters with "economics anxiety."

I again wonder why they won’t even really try to win the minority vote beyond just smearing liberals.

I wonder why they want to rebuild their movement on the backs of racist voters that voted them out in the first place for warming up to Civil Rights policy.

I wonder why the engage in nostalgia politics so much

I wonder why the wax poetic about the New Deal, something draped in racial injustice

I wonder why they shallowly peddle their own version of MLK to gain favor with black voters. Another conservative favorite

I wonder why Barrack Obama is a neoliberal token who was secretly against black people, that black people should reject, and should stop using the race card to defend until they need to use Obama's race as a shield for criticism and attack the right.

And I wonder why they think minorities can't see them doing all of this.

And please don’t try to play it off as a couple of bad politicians, because this buffoonery is widespread on the “the left.” So I wonder why the conclusion is never "damn, American leftist are kinda tone deaf **** too" Nope, it falls all on minority voters I guess.

But you know what, you don’t have to answer a damn thing about anything I said. You don’t have to answer for the crimes and shortcomings of the modern day leftist movement because you are not guilty of everything they do, even though it seems I must do so for all the **** the center-left puts out there.

I just wonder when leftist will collectively get their heads out their asses, stop being so ****ing lazy and petulant, and try for once to try to expand their coalition. And not cry that it isn't handed to them

But they, as I said, if the antagonization from black voters is too much to take come next cycle, I hope my Leftist Brothers live their best life in 2020 and....

Bounce

I wonder why Leftist Libbie Losers don't have a clue?

I wonder why Leftist like OBUMMER and BERNARD Neon Deion SANDERS ruin everything?

I wonder why Leftist eat Veggie Wraps?

I wonder why Leftist aren't used to this Conservative's Smash Mouth politics style?

I wonder why the media isn't talking about the ALT LEFT?

I wonder why Jadakiss is as hard as it gets?

I wonder why Rock Deep still scamming people?

I wonder why fighters don't work off the jab in the early rounds?

 

[whywesteppin]

edit:

Alsup didn't reference the meeting in his decision, but he did say there were signs that the administration's decision to wind down DACA was not the product of legal necessity but rather an attempt to improve the White House's bargaining position.

The judge, an appointee of President Bill Clinton, said Trump gave "credence" to that claim when he tweeted last month: “The Democrats have been told, and fully understand, that there can be no DACA without the desperately needed WALL at the Southern Border and an END to the horrible Chain Migration & ridiculous Lottery System of Immigration etc. We must protect our Country at all cost!”

 

[boris]

Where's Team Trump to explain why this Fusion GPS testimony is a bunch of nothingburgers?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I wonder why Leftist Libbie Losers don't have a clue?

I wonder why Leftist like OBUMMER and BERNARD Neon Deion SANDERS ruin everything?

I wonder why Leftist eat Veggie Wraps?

I wonder why Leftist aren't used to this Conservative's Smash Mouth politics style?

I wonder why the media isn't talking about the ALT LEFT?

I wonder why Jadakiss is as hard as it gets?

I wonder why Rock Deep still scamming people?

I wonder why fighters don't work off the jab in the early rounds?

I though the only thing Sheriff Clarke and Barson wonder about is if the cashier remembered to put the extra butter and honey, for the biscuits, in the bag

 

[aepps20]

I though the only thing Sheriff Clarke and Barson wonder about is if the cashier remembered to put the extra butter and honey, for the biscuits, in the bag

U BETTA bring your hard hat. Them fighting words.

 

[Mr.Guy]

Are butter biscuits fattening?

 

[aepps20]

 

[rexanglorum]

I though the only thing Sheriff Clarke and Barson wonder about is if the cashier remembered to put the extra butter and honey, for the biscuits, in the bag

Why they surpress the truth the truth about the pyramids?

Why you got to ask for your packet of honey?

Why are young black men still robbing Popeyes organizations?

Why they let Doug Jones win the election?

Why do they still let some black men get GEDs in jail?

Why don't you have winning mindset since poverty is just a mindset?

Why Jesus not teach you biochem in your dreams before the final exam, son?

Why is Ben Barson the only one who talks to Arc Angel Barachael?



Edit: This David Clarke guy is like the best aepps impersonator ever. He goes so deep into character. When you go so deep into character that you become a Sheriff and murder people in your jail just to spoof NT's greatest conservative poster, we got to respect that method acting.

 

[Nike Jordan]

I thought the House Sheriff got suspended from Twitter.

 

[storm2006]

Bruh...Does he not understand how government works? This is legit infuriating and if I some Alt Right dude ever says this to me in person they are catching the fade on sight

Edit: Matter of fact, I’m saving this for 2020 and/or Impeachment Day. ******* idiot

 

[Mr.Guy]

That ancestors need to send this biscuit boy to an early death.

 

[IATT]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Rusty, I mostly agree and yes, it is unfair for you to have to defend everything that the center left does when your policy views are often times to the left of them. When I read your views on public education, labor markets, human capital, higher education, housing, healthcare etc. you are no where near neoliberalism.

The one area where I disagree is the idea that Sanders, Warren et al. are nefarious when they mention the New Deal or the decades after World War II. I am sure that you know that a popular conservative tactic is to claim that a fairer society is simply impossible and that while they might like to make jobs pay more or to make education more affordable, there simply isn't ever going to be enough money to do so. When you mentions the New Deal, it is a way of reminding conservatives "if you want to see affordable schooling, housing and higher wages you need not look to Europe or to some utopian future, you can look back into out own history, to a time that you guys lionize as being better, a tougher, more elegant and more authentic time, in your estimation, was capable of cheaply delivering those pillars of middle class life for large swaths of the population."

Now in discourse among the left, we are quick to qualify the New Deal and mid Century with the fact that, large swaths of America was left out and that they were deliberately left out because of who they were.

When I mention 1950's America it is tell conservatives that the magical muscle car era was under girded by cheap housing, well funded schools, expanding infrastructure and high wages for a majority of whites. Vroom, vroom, b.



What you said about Jesse Jackson got me thinking. Conventional wisdom is that George HW Bush's walloping of Dukakis in the general election of 1988 changed our politics for a generation because Democrats saw it as necessary to adopt right wing policy positions. Perhaps it is the case that the white working class abandonment of the party due to Jesse Jackson's ascendancy is what really caused so much of the Democratic Party to abandon working class politics. I can see the thinking, non college whites had backed Republicans in three straight elections ('80, '84 and '8.

Lately, I have been saying that in a saner, more rational America, the white working class may have voted for Reagan in 1980 but they would have given Mondale major support in 1984 and during his reelection bid in 1988. If working class whites had not been enthrall to white supremacy and stayed in the Democratic Party, in may have been the case that in 1991-1992, the Democrat's rising star would have been Bernard Sanders, newly elected House member and firebrand from Vermont.

In a better and saner Universe, Bernie is thought of as a very effective President, a champion for the downtrodden and when he left office in January of 2001, he opened us up to a 21st Century which already has seen its first black and women president and the election of 2020 is seen as relatively low stakes event to see who America permanent governing coalition selects to continue the thirty years of good work on the part of our political class.

It is not my intention to try to paint leftist as nefarious; it sincerely is not. I genuinely believe that Bernie, Warren and nearly all of the leftist movement doesn't have the appetite to sell minorities out to ensure the return of social democracy, and would consider their movement a failure if it does. I cape for these people too much in real life to other black people for me to genuinely believe this.

But they need to be weary some people do, and that when power is handed over to new people, that those people may not share the same thirst for racial justice as they do.

Use the New Deal it to attack conservatives, beat them down with it, I sure do. And yes I will admit that leftist do qualify their comments regarding it, but not all the time, and the times that they don't are very important. It sit well with me when leftist politicians stand in front crowds of white faces are wax poetic about it without qualification, or when leftist pundits get mealy-mouthed about how ****** up it was. Not only that, I don't like how they tacitly blame the breaking up of the New Deal coalition on Centrist Dems. When the truth of the matter they know is the passing of Civil Rights policy did that.

 

[Mr.Guy]

Damn I just rode an Amtrak train last week.

 

[boris]

Maybe we can finally start calling white people terrorists.

 

[storm2006]

So I got a Trump supporter story. There's a guy I know from college that is a massive troll so naturally he's drawn to DJT and his bombastic ways. White,super fratty investment banker so he's reasonably intelligent. So today he screencaps the picture below with the caption "Damn. DJT is the worst racist ever."



I think to my self, hold up wait a minute....and go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. AA unemployment was at it's peak in August 2011 at 16.3 This is how the Dems who did nothing handled it:

Trump only took off a point which Obama did in three months when employment was double! Then he asked what it was when Obama entered which was 12.7% but he was obviously handed the recession so that's why it swelled to 16.4% but he more than cut it in half and here Trump is trying to act like he did nothing and take credit for it?!?! After breaking it down for him, he said nothing but it really boils my blood that people, even those who are well-educated, that will look at things he says, take them at face value and then say some stupid **** like "Trump is doing a lot for African Americans. They are just ungrateful and lazy". **** them and **** Donald Trump and his entire administration. Sickening.