***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

^ he got it

 

[RustyShackleford]

Respect, RustyShackleford

Let me also clarify that I wasn't trying to conflate what you and Belgium said with what Fargin offered. And your response is exactly what I was hoping for in asking for a bit more analysis instead of flippant remarks.

When it comes to opinion polls, I want to have my cake and eat it, too. On the one hand, I recognize polling as an acceptable barometer for measuring popular opinion. On the other hand, polling can never fully capture what its wielders claim to know. The basic point is that polling is political, deployed by left and right to make the case in ways they see fit. I'm guilty of this, but I always try to foreground the tactical aspect of polls. It is my way of relating to that seemingly neutral form of knowledge production.

I suspect that where you and I might disagree is around posture. That is, we probably agree on social democracy, perhaps even antiracist economic democracy. But we disagree on the political posture candidates should assume vis-a-vis oligarchs and their parliamentary lackeys. That confrontational posture is one major reason why I support Bernie. It is also why I don't think Corbyn is an obstacle as you suggested. Between he and other roadblocks, Corbyn is the 'pink bunny shaped' road block used in Narita, Japan. The conservative party and those hell-bent on obstructing Labour's 2019 Manifesto are the roadblocks of the West Bank: numerous, permanent, and suffocating of progressive reform.

I respect you opinion, and we definitely agree on social democracy and antiracist economic democracy (even though our visions of what they may look like might differ a little) but I think he is a road block because Labour is kinda floundering with him as leader. They are gonna lose the second straight election under him, it looks like worst than before. And I found this startling...

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...remy-corbyn-party-leader-brexit-boris-johnson

The Labour leader has the lowest poll numbers of any leader of the opposition since records began. His net satisfaction rating is minus 60, outstripping the previous negative record held since 1982 by Michael Foot. He is less popular than Boris Johnson among both men and women, in every socioeconomic category, whether richer or poorer, in London and Scotland as well as the Midlands and Wales and, remarkably, in every age group. Perhaps it’s no surprise that the over-65s prefer Johnson to Corbyn by 62% to 8%, but it’s arresting that even among the youngest voters, aged 18 to 24, those once seen as the Labour leader’s base, Corbyn is less popular than the prime minister, albeit by three points.

Form my understanding too that since Corbyn has been very anti-EU in the past, and because of his compromise Brexit stance, that the "stay" coalition of his party has fled to the Liberal Dems.

Then I read about Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and the Jewish communities concerns with Corbyn. Of course the right are way more bigoted but this is still not a good look....

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/21/world/europe/britain-election-antisemitism.html

Rabbis used to joke that when young Jews became a bar or bat mitzvah, tradition held that they be given lifelong membership in the Labour Party. But no longer. Many Jews now feel sharply at odds with Labour, and politically homeless in Britain.

A number of Labour lawmakers have quit the party over the issue since February. The Jewish Labour Movement, a 100-year-old socialist group, decided not to campaign nationally for Labour for the first time in its history. And the Jewish Chronicle, Britain’s most influential Jewish newspaper, ran a front-page editorial beseeching non-Jews to heed the paper’s fears of a Corbyn government.

But British Jews, some of whom were already drifting rightward in recent decades, have accelerated their retreat from Labour since Mr. Corbyn became leader in 2015.

An ardent anticapitalist and anti-imperialist, Mr. Corbyn once defended a mural featuring grotesque caricatures of hooknosed Jewish bankers. He accused longtime Britons who were Zionists of failing to “understand English irony.” And several whistle-blowers have accused Corbyn allies of interfering in the party’s anti-Semitism complaints process.

Labour is now under investigation by Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission.

In recent weeks, one Labour candidate quit after being accused of calling a Jewish colleague “Shylock,” a reference to the moneylender in Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice,” and another left the race after revelations that she compared Israel to “an abused child who grows up to become an abusive adult.”

Scholars say certain strains of anticapitalism have historically risked casting Jews as a class of rich conspirators oppressing working people. Some of Mr. Corbyn’s supporters also stridently oppose Israel, occasionally resorting to anti-Semitic tropes to make their points.

Unless I have been missing something, the Tories have kinda been a mess during the last couple years, so it is hard for me how Labour can't convince people to vote them out.

If Corbyn stays, fine, but he has to do better with coalition building because under a parliamentary system people have more freedom to go elsewhere if they are upset with the party. Being a confrontational leftist fighting for the people is definitely a positive for Corbyn, but dude gotta tighten up his game because it seem people, many on the left, just don't to vote for a party ran by him. So maybe it is time to look for a new confrontational leftist to lead the party.

They have time though, I doubt after this the UK will see another election until the 5 year deadline is up in 2024.

 

[flyeed]

mr 5 pinocchios:

just seen this on da gramb

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[aepps20]

HANDSOME

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Apparently that is a group protesting at the Warren event.

 

[elpablo21]

Edit: I was mistaken

 

[elpablo21]

Apparently that is a group protesting at the Warren event.

 

[wavycrocket]

Man, I just hope 80% of the corruption transnational crime Trump and his associates have engaged in over decades is revealed within the next 5 years. Then I pray the whole movie of what went down comes out in the next 15 years, and is directed by Scorsese or someone .

But yeah. The RNC dropped damn near $100K on Don Jr bull**** book. Asterisk #1.

 

[noskey]

Bet anything that Mayo Peter on the phone trying to find a single black friend after this hits the streets.

 

[noskey]

Also, I finally had time to watch Adam Schiff's closing speech today. That man is a master orator, and his speech was one of the best I've ever heard. When he closed the speech and the hearings by quoting Elijah Cummings I teared up. Absolutely beautiful delivery of some of the strongest words from one of the most important men (Cummings) in modern American history. While most of us will reflect on these hearings as the week that Trumps presidency dissolved, culminating with a historic speech from Schiff, it's unfortunate that some people so blinded by partisan hatred/willful ignorance will continue to defend a man that would do nothing but ruin them if he could, or potentially already has. This may not be the day Trumps presidency ends but it damn sure was the day that historians will remember this presidency lost it legitimacy.

**** Gym "Rape Coverups" Jordan and Devin "Russian Asset" Nunes.

 

[rexanglorum]

You're my guy Rex but this is wild wrong. It's def a supply problem. The Big cities that have artificially restricted supply have the most insane housing prices.

No amount of financial sector speculation is going to hold a candle San Francisco basically making it illegal to build appartment buildings or Washington DC dumb *** height of building act ect ect.

You can't look at these big as cities with booming economies and tell me they are building enough housing.


It's def a supply problem.

Housing is mainly a supply problem.

Bernie concedes the supply problem is his proposal

From my understanding the DSA has too in the past as well.

I have heard the dude that started the Jacobin say that as well interviews

rexanglorum you too have discussed the supply problem numerous times. I remember when Houston flooded you made a post basically saying while you worry about where they build you are happy that a city is allowing housing to be built where it can.

So that is why I posted the Tweet. It is just a convenient flip flop to attack Warren on something there is nearly universal consensus on, on the left. Sure you can have other effects going on at the same time but housing is mainly a supply problem.

Look how people responded on Twitter to it, they called bull**** right away...


And he is right, Bernie's first point in about increasing supply...
https://berniesanders.com/issues/housing-all/

I went back and rewatched Warren's reply as well as the other responses about housing. Warren's reply was actually very good. Supply is a big part of the problem, especially the fact that housing has become more heterogeneous than ever due to the proliferation of luxury housing which has ever more stringent credit checks and enforcement of prohibitions against subletting and having roommates.

The owners of the buildings do not have a big incentive to rent a unit to multiple low to moderate income people. They would rather rent to college students with wealthy parents or very well paid professionals. If they cannot adequately fill up a property with those affluent renters, the owner will just wait to sell it and in major metro areas there is a huge amount of demand that comes from the finance sector rather than from actual residents.

Get the finance induced demand out because the residential demand is already overwhelming the lack of supply. The added bonus is that owners of luxury developments will have to convert their hitherto idle housing stock into accessible and usable housing supply for the non affluent.

We do need to build more housing stock but even if we didn't add any new housing stock, we could create more supply from the housing stock that is currently idle due to the corrosive influence of capital driven demand for housing in major metropolitan areas.

On reflection Warren did a great job, in the short time that candidates were afforded of not only talking about supply but about the fact that so much the new housing stock is off limits for most potential buyers and renters. Now, if she were asked to give an hour long, comprehensive talk and didn't give any mention to the negative effects of financial speculation, then she'd be wrong.


As far as NIMBYs are concerned, most of them suck. Most of them are selfish incumbent home owners who are also frequently motivated by white supremacy. I just think that most YIMBYs are equally cynical, they don't care about housing crisis and they are only saying yes to luxury developments.

 

[mplsdunk]

There is no shortage of housing here. Condos have had vacancies for years.

none of it is affordable though. That’s the problem.

 

[whywesteppin]

Another soulcrushing day for libs. This impeachment thing is going nowhere. Tesla just unveiled their new lib-crusher coal-powered triple-hemi monster truck for the masses, and it comes with the passing lane power BUILT IN. What a great day all around!

President Trump, Mitch "the Turtle" McConnell, Mayor Rudy, and Bill "I got" Barrs were in quite the happy mood at the local Bluffington bar and grill:

WOW!

 

[fargin]

Yeah? Well make the argument, then. Don't just spout off reckless comparisons only to hide behind your opinion when pushed.

To highlight a few examples, Corbyn and Labour have proposed:

1. Extending access to public services without regressive taxation
2. A universal basic income
3. Expanding the investment stake of workers in the companies for which they work.
4. The dramatic expansion of broadband access across the country.

Read more here: https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/

Since you want to make comparisons, I'll leave it to you to make the case for why Johnson--a racist liar invested in leveraging right-wing populism to entrench inequality still further--is 'arguably' better than Corbyn.

Corbyn is "trash," its been said. Corbyn is "extremely disliked across the board," its been mentioned. No detailed, rigorous analysis of multiple opinion polls. Just anecdotal evidence passing for some general pattern.

If you don't agree with the kind of redistributionary agenda Labour has proposed then say so. If you don't think that Britain can engage in expansive deficit spending at a moment of relatively low interest rates, then say so.

At the very least, it's fair to ask those of you who have educated NT on the recent dealings in the criminality of 45 to bring that same rigor to bear on other political dynamics.

I consider Johnson to be the British Trump equivalent and I'd pick Corbyn over him any day. I'd pick a carrot with googly eyes over Johnson. If I had a choice between Corbyn and a carrot, I'd need more time to think about it.

Corbyn de-excites me, but I hope the electorate is more easily impressed.

 

[KHUFU]

 

[Belgium]

Trump sounded all kinds of nuts in that latest Fox and Friends interview

This moron still thinks firing Comey, which resulted in Mueller's appointment and the obstruction probe, was a smart move.




Sondland and Holmes testified about the call. Lying indicates consciousness of guilt.

 

[Belgium]

Can't make this stuff up. Couldn't get his war with Iran so he had to settle for 'liberating' his Twitter account instead. A battle well fought.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Obeezy's skin always looks like it has been touched by the finest African Shea Butters

Glowin on these fools

 

[Christian Pulisic]

This disgusts me.

 

[IATT]

 

[KHUFU]

Obeezy's skin always looks like it has been touched by the finest African Shea Butters

Glowin on these fools

He is the one President that does not look as if he's been through hell, after his terms were over. He does seem to not be worried about anything, no stress, no drama.

 

[IATT]

This disgusts me.