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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
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A pressure campaign to get a foreign government to criminally investigate the Bidens is not opposition research though. Looking into what Hunter Biden did over there is opposition research. Asking a foreign government to publicly announce a criminal investigation is not.
Giuliani, who works at the direction of the president, has always been abundantly clear about his attempts to pressure Ukraine into investigating the Bidens. He said it would be "very, very helpful to my client."
In the July 25 call, Trump asked Zelensky to "talk to Rudy."
Giuliani was also involved in drafting a proposed statement where Zelensky would cave to the demands. According to witnesses, Giuliani insisted that the statement had to include Burisma (code for Bidens).
Ukainians were told a WH meeting was conditioned on complying with Trump's demand about announcing the investigations in public.
Even back in July, Ukrainians already contacted US officials with concerns that the aid could be in jeopardy. Giuliani had been pressuring them for weeks already. Lev Parnas's lawyer claims that, at the direction of Giuliani, Parnas explicitly told a Ukrainian official that the military aid would be frozen and that Pence would not attend the inauguration if Ukraine didn't commit to investigating the Bidens.
Both of Parnas' alleged threats ended up happening.
The Politico article in August is when Ukraine conclusively confirmed the aid was being held up but they had clear suspicions since at least July.
Given what they were hearing from Giuliani, Sondland, Bill Taylor, ... it's not hard to draw a conclusions. The Ukrainians aren't stupid.
They also complained to US officials that Zelensky did not want to be "used as a pawn for a US elections."
Eventually, Zelensky did cave to the pressure. On September 8, Gordon Sondland told Bill Taylor that Zelensky told him in a call that he was ready to give in to the demands. Zelensky would announce Trump's requested investigations during a CNN interview scheduled for September 13.
In short, Zelensky committed to his end of the bargain on or about September 8.
On September 10, Congress issues a public letter to Acting DNI Maguire in which the existence of the whistleblower complaint is disclosed, along with a demand for answers from Maguire why he was blocking the complaint from going to Congress, contrary to the ICWPA statute.
By that time, Trump already knew the content of the whistleblower complaint. WH lawyers learned in late August and Trump was briefed on it after they thoroughly reviewed it.
2 days later, Trump lifts the hold on the aid.
Finally some luck for Zelensky, who then of course backed down from his earlier commitment.
One of Trump's key defenses is he supposedly cares about corruption. Strangely he never showed any concern for any of the rampant corruption by his administration officials and his close associates.
Paul Manafort? Nothing but praise, and what a brave man for "refusing to break, unlike Michael Cohen."
He rightfully says that the only reason Hunter Biden was on that Burisma board was because of his last name, which is obvious to anyone, but he employs Kushner in a top position. Kushner had to revise his security clearance application over and over and over again because time and again, he ommitted meetings, primarily with Russians. He filed at least 40 incomplete SF-86's.
A whistleblower testified that her rejection of Kushner's top secret security clearance was overruled by her superior. Kushner privately met with Citigroup officials at the WH, afterwards Citigroup loaned out millions of dollars to Kushner's company.
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I would first take issue with the characterization of a “pressure campaign.” Yes, Trump asked the Ukrainians to look into corruption involving Hunter Biden. The rest of what you write, which could certainly plausibly be a quid quo pro with pressure from Trump and his team, is not the only reasonable deduction.
Zelensky not only said he didn’t feel pressured but he also states there was no quid pro quo. As a result, it’s either believe both presidents (with first hand knowledge), or make assumptions based on the feelings of several others who were indirectly involved. If an experienced politician made the comments Trump made they would likely be asking for a quid pro quo. Trump isn’t that sophisticated of a politician. And, based on how dumb many in here assert he is, he probably didn’t (read doesn’t) understand the reasonable assumptions people can make based on it.
At the end of the day, it simply hasn’t risen to the level of an impeachable offense in my opinion. But I can respect disagreement on that issue.
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The hostage, who will remain a hostage until at least November 3 2020, says he didn't feel pressured, case closed.
Zelensky is in a tough position. He's a new president, new to politics and the eastern part of his country is engulfed in a hot war with Russia.
While he has to depend on crucial security assistance and relationships with the EU and the US, it is also important for Zelensky that they don't come off as "beggars", as he recently said himself in an interview.
Zelensky also does not want to look weak, as that would play right in Putin's hands. 'He's a US puppet', they would say.
Zelensky clearly did not want to be used as a pawn for a US election but he was forced into that position nonetheless. As much as he tries to maintain an image of strength, he ultimately committed to doing what he felt he needed to do to get the US' assistance. He committed to issuing the public statement about announcing the investigations, showing just how important the assistance is both to him and his country.
A number of witnesses like Bill Taylor, George Kent and Fiona Hill pointed this out but the war in Ukraine's Donbas region has already cost 13000 lives, a number that continues to rise. The last thing anyone should be asking from Zelensky is to use him as a pawn for a US re-election campaign. As Zelensky himself said, "If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us."
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Nike Jordan
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"Don't Know" is polling higher with Black voters than Mayo Peter and Goonberg combined.
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It's really gonna be Bernie or Biden for the nomination huh
America let's not make this mistake again and just vote for the white woman this time
America let's not make this mistake again and just vote for the white woman this time
RustyShackleford
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Like I said, I will support the nominee for the general regardless.
But I really wish these two clowns were not running.
The prospect of a self centered old white man being the nominee is kinda depressing. Especially since both of them a delusional about America's race problem in their own way.
Nike Jordan
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Biden will be name-dropping Obama at the same rate Doug Collins likes to mention that he coached Michael Jordan.
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Just look at the numbers......Bernie Sanders doesn’t stand a chance in hell. Which works for me.
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It's high time you leave this thread and take your primary school yard level understanding of politics, geopolitics, and economics with you. Be generous this Christmas and stop insulting our intelligence with your nonsensical hot takes. If you can't understand why Zelensky would say publicly he wasn't pressured, you won't ever get what is happening. If you, Mr Lawyer, are going to argue that we should take Trump or Z at their word with no consideration of the context in which they are talking, I'm gonna say a prayer for your clients because they are being represented by an avocado.
aepps20
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It was also his understanding that Roy Moore isn't a pedo but he gave his underage relatives a run a sight order when they see Roy.
RustyShackleford
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An avacado would definitely by an improvement over that troll.
It contains more integrity, morals, common sense and essential fatty acids than DWalk.
It contains more integrity, morals, common sense and essential fatty acids than DWalk.
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Dude is the worst lawyer I've ever come across in a political thread. He has to be a bankruptcy attorney.
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Both need to have a seat, but I trust Bernie’s mental capacity wayyy more than Biden’s. I just can’t believe we’re seriously considering two people that will be in their 80s come re-election.
aepps20
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Just win back the senate and keep the house.
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RustyShackleford
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Yeah, if is between the two it is Prime easily. But that is not saying much.
Both are bottom tier for me.
RustyShackleford
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Da party of free speech doe
