aepps20
Supporter
- Feb 8, 2004
- 42,597
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WHICH IS WHY I VOTED FOR HIM IN 2020. Real leaders don't mind doing da dirty work.
School Me On This Russia/Ukraine Kerfuffle
WHICH IS WHY I VOTED FOR HIM IN 2020. Real leaders don't mind doing da dirty work.
- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
- 36,451
Thank you.
History didn't happen before the fall of the USSR according to some folks here. Let's disregard the fact that former Soviet republics joined NATO as soon as they could, in the 90s.
He actually believes that ****.
They don't sit down for a minute to realize that the only way the US is involved is due to its presence in NATO.
DC doesn't care that much about who supplies gas to Europe; Russia very much does, since it's one of the few ways they can exercise leverage over Western/Central Europe. The problem here is Russia being unable to keep control over its sphere of influence and blaming the US for it.
elpablo21
Supporter
- Feb 11, 2008
- 106,566
- 196,296
- Jan 3, 2013
- 29,399
- 27,922
Thank you.
History didn't happen before the fall of the USSR according to some folks here. Let's disregard the fact that former Soviet republics joined NATO as soon as they could, in the 90s.
He actually believes that ****.
They don't sit down for a minute to realize that the only way the US is involved is due to its presence in NATO.
DC doesn't care that much about who supplies gas to Europe; Russia very much does, since it's one of the few ways they can exercise leverage over Western/Central Europe. The problem here is Russia being unable to keep control over its sphere of influence and blaming the US for it.
just curious are you liberal? you're giving the US one hell of a benefit of the doubt.
- Apr 15, 2004
- 44,381
- 74,109
Girl is looking for a fellow soldiers head who was killed apparently
- Jun 15, 2013
- 26,218
- 23,184
Nevermind, can ask stupid questions back ....
**** is just stoopid!
**** is just stoopid!
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- Jan 3, 2013
- 29,399
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I said that? where?
- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
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Yes, I am.
How am I giving the US "one hell of a benefit of the doubt?"
aepps20
Supporter
- Feb 8, 2004
- 42,597
- 90,926
This is the real question that needs answering.
- Jan 3, 2013
- 29,399
- 27,922
I highlighted these points from your previous post.
Thank you.
History didn't happen before the fall of the USSR according to some folks here. Let's disregard the fact that former Soviet republics joined NATO as soon as they could, in the 90s.
He actually believes that ****.
They don't sit down for a minute to realize that the only way the US is involved is due to its presence in NATO.
DC doesn't care that much about who supplies gas to Europe; Russia very much does, since it's one of the few ways they can exercise leverage over Western/Central Europe. The problem here is Russia being unable to keep control over its sphere of influence and blaming the US for it.
also Russia asked to join NATO before the USSR fell, and Putin himself asked again in the 2000s
- Jul 22, 2015
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- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
- 36,451
Germany phased out much of their nuclear power generation in order to move towards renewables; they - and the US - knew it would make them more vulnerable to Russian influence due to the temporary increase in natural gas demand this move would entail, and they still went ahead with the decision to rely on them. That shows an effort to have a normal relationship with Russia, despite the long list of unethical and illegal behavior from the Russian government in international affairs (assassinations, sabotage, election meddling, cheating during the Olympics).
Despite legislative action against Nord Stream 2 during the Trump administration, the Biden administration did lift the sanctions prior to the conflict, hence the statement. The whole gas issue is primarily a European problem (Russia supplies about 40% of natural gas consumed in Europe and the second largest supplier, Norway comes in at 19%). Financial reasons notwithstanding, the US is only worried about European reliance on Russian gas to the extent that if Russia uses access to gas to threaten European security and European nations respond militarily, the US might be unwillingly dragged into a conflict because of prior defense agreements, and this is (was?) a remote possibility.
Ukrainians have not needed the US presence in Europe to aspire to the promise of economic development that comes with membership in the EU bloc. In addition, there is the history of the region to inform us of the long distrust that exists between Russia and many of its neighbors, so even if you take away NATO (and the US) from the European geopolitical equation, belonging to an economically strong and militarily and economically stable bloc like the EU would still have the kind of appeal that Russia can't match today.
This tendency to blame the US for Ukraine misses the fact that if Putin was right that the 2014 Ukrainian revolution had been orchestrated by a minority of pro-Western Ukrainians with active support from foreign spies, Russian forces would have effectively been welcomed with open arms by the silent, pro-Russian majority, and Zelenskyy would have fled just like in Afghanistan, where the entire government literally had no popular support.
So I have to ask, one month after the beginning of hostilities: where is that silent, pro-Russian majority outside of the regions of Luhansk and Donetsk controlled by pro-Russian separatists?
The way I see it, NATO (specifically, the US) provides a convenient excuse to focus the eyes of Putin's people away from domestic failures of their president. If North Korea is not scared of an invasion by the US because of their nuclear capabilities, Russia has no reason to fear NATO at its doorsteps (and NATO is already at its doorsteps).
The real problem that Russia has is its loss of influence abroad and the rising discontentment of the Russian population, and Putin's answer to his problems at home is war abroad.
HNL HI
- Jul 17, 2017
- 595
- 857
Germany phased out much of their nuclear power generation in order to move towards renewables; they - and the US - knew it would make them more vulnerable to Russian influence due to the temporary increase in natural gas demand this move would entail, and they still went ahead with the decision to rely on them. That shows an effort to have a normal relationship with Russia, despite the long list of unethical and illegal behavior from the Russian government in international affairs (assassinations, sabotage, election meddling, cheating during the Olympics).
Despite legislative action against Nord Stream 2 during the Trump administration, the Biden administration did lift the sanctions prior to the conflict, hence the statement. The whole gas issue is primarily a European problem (Russia supplies about 40% of natural gas consumed in Europe and the second largest supplier, Norway comes in at 19%). Financial reasons notwithstanding, the US is only worried about European reliance on Russian gas to the extent that if Russia uses access to gas to threaten European security and European nations respond militarily, the US might be unwillingly dragged into a conflict because of prior defense agreements, and this is (was?) a remote possibility.
Ukrainians have not needed the US presence in Europe to aspire to the promise of economic development that comes with membership in the EU bloc. In addition, there is the history of the region to inform us of the long distrust that exists between Russia and many of its neighbors, so even if you take away NATO (and the US) from the European geopolitical equation, belonging to an economically strong and militarily and economically stable bloc like the EU would still have the kind of appeal that Russia can't match today.
This tendency to blame the US for Ukraine misses the fact that if Putin was right that the 2014 Ukrainian revolution had been orchestrated by a minority of pro-Western Ukrainians with active support from foreign spies, Russian forces would have effectively been welcomed with open arms by the silent, pro-Russian majority, and Zelenskyy would have fled just like in Afghanistan, where the entire government literally had no popular support.
So I have to ask, one month after the beginning of hostilities: where is that silent, pro-Russian majority outside of the regions of Luhansk and Donetsk controlled by pro-Russian separatists?
The way I see it, NATO (specifically, the US) provides a convenient excuse to focus the eyes of Putin's people away from domestic failures of their president. If North Korea is not scared of an invasion by the US because of their nuclear capabilities, Russia has no reason to fear NATO at its doorsteps (and NATO is already at its doorsteps).
The real problem that Russia has is its loss of influence abroad and the rising discontentment of the Russian population, and Putin's answer to his problems at home is war abroad.
That's what's I'm saying. The few who come in to talk about how horrible Ukraine is, spewing Russian talking points because a small (like 2% of their government and armed forces out of a population of over 44 mil) has nazi like attributes and did some horrible things is supposed to delegitmize all of Ukraine from protecting themselves against Russian aggression. While just handwaving all the horrible things Russia has done and STILL IS DOING (along with being aligned with Russian nazis-wagner group) in country and abroad. Examples of which you stated- assassination on forgein soil, Olympic cheating, invading sovereign countries and election meddling to name a few. That doesn't mean the people here who support Ukraine can't, at the same time, detest what Azov battalion is doing is just stupid. Noone is saying the nazi elements are right. There's way more to this.
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- Apr 8, 2009
- 12,710
- 12,094
Ship that was hit couple days ago about to become a submarine.
Still no mention of what caused it. Either it's so that Russians can't defend whatever it for future attacks or the Russians did it themselves accidentally.
All they can resort to is just heavy bombardment. They're loosing the ground game and are not comfortable at all in the air.
- May 27, 2017
- 20,225
- 26,552
That clout chasing gonna get him clipped
- Jan 3, 2013
- 29,399
- 27,922
Germany phased out much of their nuclear power generation in order to move towards renewables; they - and the US - knew it would make them more vulnerable to Russian influence due to the temporary increase in natural gas demand this move would entail, and they still went ahead with the decision to rely on them. That shows an effort to have a normal relationship with Russia, despite the long list of unethical and illegal behavior from the Russian government in international affairs (assassinations, sabotage, election meddling, cheating during the Olympics).
Despite legislative action against Nord Stream 2 during the Trump administration, the Biden administration did lift the sanctions prior to the conflict, hence the statement. The whole gas issue is primarily a European problem (Russia supplies about 40% of natural gas consumed in Europe and the second largest supplier, Norway comes in at 19%). Financial reasons notwithstanding, the US is only worried about European reliance on Russian gas to the extent that if Russia uses access to gas to threaten European security and European nations respond militarily, the US might be unwillingly dragged into a conflict because of prior defense agreements, and this is (was?) a remote possibility.
Ukrainians have not needed the US presence in Europe to aspire to the promise of economic development that comes with membership in the EU bloc. In addition, there is the history of the region to inform us of the long distrust that exists between Russia and many of its neighbors, so even if you take away NATO (and the US) from the European geopolitical equation, belonging to an economically strong and militarily and economically stable bloc like the EU would still have the kind of appeal that Russia can't match today.
This tendency to blame the US for Ukraine misses the fact that if Putin was right that the 2014 Ukrainian revolution had been orchestrated by a minority of pro-Western Ukrainians with active support from foreign spies, Russian forces would have effectively been welcomed with open arms by the silent, pro-Russian majority, and Zelenskyy would have fled just like in Afghanistan, where the entire government literally had no popular support.
So I have to ask, one month after the beginning of hostilities: where is that silent, pro-Russian majority outside of the regions of Luhansk and Donetsk controlled by pro-Russian separatists?
The way I see it, NATO (specifically, the US) provides a convenient excuse to focus the eyes of Putin's people away from domestic failures of their president. If North Korea is not scared of an invasion by the US because of their nuclear capabilities, Russia has no reason to fear NATO at its doorsteps (and NATO is already at its doorsteps).
The real problem that Russia has is its loss of influence abroad and the rising discontentment of the Russian population, and Putin's answer to his problems at home is war abroad.
yeah to be honest you did little if anything to speak on the US involvement that you said was just due to the fact that they were in NATO.
like I said you're giving a lot of benefit to the US and NATO and what they have done to participate in this war.
I won't say anything about the Russia finger pointing(the North Korea reference was particularly silly tho), because I don't really care and i'm not here to argue for any side other than all the people being affected around the world.
- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
- 36,451
I don't think you understood what I said, which was that the only reason the ire of some folks is directed towards the US is because they are a NATO member and an easy actor to demonize (due to their own history of failed interventions and their ability to financially hit most countries on the planet).
And what have the US and NATO done to participate in this war, other than stand aside, sanction Russia, and arm Ukrainians?
- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
- 36,451
- Jan 16, 2011
- 15,009
- 36,451
EU signs US gas deal to curb reliance on Russia
The liquefied natural gas deal with US is part of EU attempts to reduce reliance on Russian energy.
www.bbc.co.uk
- Jun 6, 2006
- 4,787
- 660
This is not gonna end well for Russia. Death toll will skyrocket if these children don’t surrender at first fight on the field.
- Jun 21, 2009
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- 51,242
Late.
But this James Vasquez guy is a character
But this James Vasquez guy is a character
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- Sep 6, 2012
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elpablo21
Supporter
- Feb 11, 2008
- 106,566
- 196,296
Wtf
- Jun 21, 2009
- 49,830
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This is like the 8th or 9th commander.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
- Jun 21, 2009
- 49,830
- 51,242
Sucks for the Ukrainians tho. Russia keeps getting their a** kicked on the ground which means they’ll keep shelling cities more and more like cowards.
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