School Me On This Russia/Ukraine Kerfuffle

[smedroc]

Spending almost a billion dollars one a single, tangible object is not something I can fathom.

Now if it was an NFT.....

 

[Coupé It]

 

[IATT]

 

[Fozz]

Man, what.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

PURE EVIL MAN

 

[elpablo21]

 

[trynafeelmink]

Media's power is wild, shouts to America for finding a way to use this as a springboard into pillaging Africa tho

#thegoodguys

 

[fluid hips]

All this could've been avoided if the west didn't dangle NATO membership like a carrot

 

[Coupé It]

Looks like a 15 year old Putin.

 

[sneeker]

All this could've been avoided if the west didn't dangle NATO membership like a carrot

nah, even without it, Putin's ambition was to reacquire some territories.

 

[Raji Lowenthal]

Putin survived an assination attempt?

 

[Smorgasbordgie]

Read an article last night about supposed "veteran" special forces going over there to fight and having a lil' too much dip on their chips. It's no joke over there.

Former US soldier now fighting in Ukraine tells of days trapped in 'house of horrors'

 

[fluid hips]

Good. He fell for the lies of the west

 

[John Wick]

Turning into another "Intelligence Failure"

U.S. Lacks a Clear Picture of Ukraine’s War Strategy, Officials Say (Published 2022)

Intelligence agencies know far more about Russia’s military, even as the United States ships billions of dollars in weapons to the Ukrainians.

www.nytimes.com

Zelensky: Ukraine may be losing up to 100 soldiers fighting in the east every day.

President Volodymyr Zelensky said during a press briefing on May 22 that 50-100 soldiers may be dying every day defending Ukraine in “the most difficult direction,” in the country's eastern regions. Ukraine doesn't publish its military casualties. As of April 16, Zelensky said that 2,500-3,000...

kyivindependent.com

 

[danikerhino]

Turning into another "Intelligence Failure"

U.S. Lacks a Clear Picture of Ukraine’s War Strategy, Officials Say (Published 2022)

Intelligence agencies know far more about Russia’s military, even as the United States ships billions of dollars in weapons to the Ukrainians.

www.nytimes.com

Zelensky: Ukraine may be losing up to 100 soldiers fighting in the east every day.

President Volodymyr Zelensky said during a press briefing on May 22 that 50-100 soldiers may be dying every day defending Ukraine in “the most difficult direction,” in the country's eastern regions. Ukraine doesn't publish its military casualties. As of April 16, Zelensky said that 2,500-3,000...

kyivindependent.com

You're right, we should be alot more accountable than that. Of course I still believe it's the right thing to do, but things are never black and white and personale are liable to go rogue, especially with a messy situation like this. People get selfish.

 

[John Wick]

You're right, we should be alot more accountable than that. Of course I still believe it's the right thing to do, but things are never black and white and personale are liable to go rogue, especially with a messy situation like this. People get selfish.

What personnel?

crazy about few months ago if you tried to say or mention what Ukraine/USA has been doing over the years to hold them accountable in this situation too, you were called a Putin Boy or Putin apologist when just stating facts.

Now these questions are coming to light and looks like Ukraine is going to end up in a stalemate which is the best situation for Russia.

Instead of negotiating we sent weapons billions of dollars with no road map ahead other than "Till the last Ukrainian" smh

 

[gry60]

All this could've been avoided if the west didn't dangle NATO membership like a carrot

I know a few older folks from Eastern Europe who grew up under Soviet rule; they are staunch supporters of western economic ideas and very resentful towards Russia. I'm pretty sure this is not an isolated sentiment, as most former soviet satellites have gotten close to the West as soon as they could. Without NATO (which is just a military alliance), I'd argue that those countries would probably seek a deeper integration in the West via the EU. The existence of NATO serves US hegemonic interests, but let's not pretend that DC is forcing or coercing Russian neighbors to be part of it.

nah, even without it, Putin's ambition was to reacquire some territories.

This; the other objective was to reestablish the legitimacy of Russia as geopolitical pole.

crazy about few months ago if you tried to say or mention what Ukraine/USA has been doing over the years to hold them accountable in this situation too, you were called a Putin Boy or Putin apologist when just stating facts.

I don't think you were stating "facts."

Now these questions are coming to light and looks like Ukraine is going to end up in a stalemate which is the best situation for Russia.

As opposed to have the Ukrainian capital completely overrun occupied by Russian forces?

As opposed to Poland, Moldova, and all other former Soviet states getting ready to be invaded by a Russian military galvanized by the lack of resistance they met as they got rid of an entire government that was against their interests? I don't think you're thinking this through.

The West's response to the invasion was a good thing to tame the expansionist desires of Putin; in addition, he also lost a lot of political and intelligence capital in the West, which will make his diplomats work harder to secure deals with foreign governments. By emerging as the boogeyman of Europe, he reinforced the perception that the EU was necessary, which will make it harder for him to fulfill his geopolitical ambitions. He turned his other neighbors (Sweden and Finland) against him and accelerated their rapprochement with NATO. And let's not even get started on how initiating this conflict backfired on them economically and socially.

I don't know where you see a win for Russia.

Instead of negotiating we sent weapons billions of dollars with no road map ahead other than "Till the last Ukrainian" smh

Without active resistance of the Ukrainian government, no negotiations from the get-go would have benefited them. To say that Russia had the upper hand at the beginning of the conflict is an understatement; their own incompetence failed them.

Unfortunately, Zelensky will have to live with the fact that the best course of action is to temporarily give up some territories and try to reacquire them diplomatically. It's longer, but weaker nations do not have the luxury to extend armed conflicts indefinitely, and most of them live and die by the concessions they make. The hardest part will be convincing his leadership and communicating this to the fighters in the Eastern regions in a way that doesn't appear like he's selling his people out.

 

[sneeker]

I know a few older folks from Eastern Europe who grew up under Soviet rule; they are staunch supporters of western economic ideas and very resentful towards Russia. I'm pretty sure this is not an isolated sentiment, as most former soviet satellites have gotten close to the West as soon as they could. Without NATO (which is just a military alliance), I'd argue that those countries would probably seek a deeper integration in the West via the EU. The existence of NATO serves US hegemonic interests, but let's not pretend that DC is forcing or coercing Russian neighbors to be part of it.


This; the other objective was to reestablish the legitimacy of Russia as geopolitical pole.


I don't think you were stating "facts."


As opposed to have the Ukrainian capital completely overrun occupied by Russian forces?

As opposed to Poland, Moldova, and all other former Soviet states getting ready to be invaded by a Russian military galvanized by the lack of resistance they met as they got rid of an entire government that was against their interests? I don't think you're thinking this through.

The West's response to the invasion was a good thing to tame the expansionist desires of Putin; in addition, he also lost a lot of political and intelligence capital in the West, which will make his diplomats work harder to secure deals with foreign governments. By emerging as the boogeyman of Europe, he reinforced the perception that the EU was necessary, which will make it harder for him to fulfill his geopolitical ambitions. He turned his other neighbors (Sweden and Finland) against him and accelerated their rapprochement with NATO. And let's not even get started on how initiating this conflict backfired on them economically and socially.

I don't know where you see a win for Russia.


Without active resistance of the Ukrainian government, no negotiations from the get-go would have benefited them. To say that Russia had the upper hand at the beginning of the conflict is an understatement; their own incompetence failed them.

Unfortunately, Zelensky will have to live with the fact that the best course of action is to temporarily give up some territories and try to reacquire them diplomatically. It's longer, but weaker nations do not have the luxury to extend armed conflicts indefinitely, and most of them live and die by the concessions they make. The hardest part will be convincing his leadership and communicating this to the fighters in the Eastern regions in a way that doesn't appear like he's selling his people out.

the Russia-Ukraine war pretty much exposed Russia's weakness as well. NATO countries and countries that were neutral becoming more aware if not for the resilience of Zelensky and the Ukrainians in general. nowadays, countries are calling off Putin's bluff and Putin cannot even push thru with his threats. this was different then when he was posturing and invading Georgia considering the country was unable to join NATO and NATO was reluctant to get involved with how Russia would react. this is also different from how Russia was able to get Crimea "illegally" due to connections from that former Ukrainian puppet president.

I would say that Putin overplayed his hand on this matter. and also believe that his mental/psychological condition might be suffering as well. he is sick and could have affected his decision making.

I believe Putin is incapable of waging war against everybody. He just postures and tries to make everyone believe that the present day Russia is still the superpower USSR of the past. the only viable threat that he could do is backstab countries, espionage, and assassinations. that's how he was able to suppress the Chechen revolution. not militarily but thru assassinations.

 

[sneeker]

I know a few older folks from Eastern Europe who grew up under Soviet rule; they are staunch supporters of western economic ideas and very resentful towards Russia. I'm pretty sure this is not an isolated sentiment, as most former soviet satellites have gotten close to the West as soon as they could. Without NATO (which is just a military alliance), I'd argue that those countries would probably seek a deeper integration in the West via the EU. The existence of NATO serves US hegemonic interests, but let's not pretend that DC is forcing or coercing Russian neighbors to be part of it.


This; the other objective was to reestablish the legitimacy of Russia as geopolitical pole.


I don't think you were stating "facts."


As opposed to have the Ukrainian capital completely overrun occupied by Russian forces?

As opposed to Poland, Moldova, and all other former Soviet states getting ready to be invaded by a Russian military galvanized by the lack of resistance they met as they got rid of an entire government that was against their interests? I don't think you're thinking this through.

The West's response to the invasion was a good thing to tame the expansionist desires of Putin; in addition, he also lost a lot of political and intelligence capital in the West, which will make his diplomats work harder to secure deals with foreign governments. By emerging as the boogeyman of Europe, he reinforced the perception that the EU was necessary, which will make it harder for him to fulfill his geopolitical ambitions. He turned his other neighbors (Sweden and Finland) against him and accelerated their rapprochement with NATO. And let's not even get started on how initiating this conflict backfired on them economically and socially.

I don't know where you see a win for Russia.


Without active resistance of the Ukrainian government, no negotiations from the get-go would have benefited them. To say that Russia had the upper hand at the beginning of the conflict is an understatement; their own incompetence failed them.

Unfortunately, Zelensky will have to live with the fact that the best course of action is to temporarily give up some territories and try to reacquire them diplomatically. It's longer, but weaker nations do not have the luxury to extend armed conflicts indefinitely, and most of them live and die by the concessions they make. The hardest part will be convincing his leadership and communicating this to the fighters in the Eastern regions in a way that doesn't appear like he's selling his people out.

I would believe that lost Ukrainian territories are only temporary. Ukraine knew that Russia won't be able to hold and secure the territory indefinitely. the guerilla warfare tactics that Ukraine is doing is effective to harrass or destroy any military installation that is sitting within the territory. I believe this is also the reason why Russia are putting out obsolete military hardware in those territories since they would most likely be destroyed. drone warfare pretty much changed the scale of war. nowadays, Russia won't even fly their planes, choppers and use their ships to attack. I believe their resources are exhausted or scared to lose more of their military capability.

 

[John Wick]

As opposed to have the Ukrainian capital completely overrun occupied by Russian forces?

As opposed to Poland, Moldova, and all other former Soviet states getting ready to be invaded by a Russian military galvanized by the lack of resistance they met as they got rid of an entire government that was against their interests? I don't think you're thinking this through.

The whole effort of this conflict was to secure eastern Ukraine the part where Putin claimed sovereignty for the separatist in easter Ukraine. I dont think they wanted the capital other than to wreck it. The could drone strike the capital all day.

The West is pushing this notion of Putin wanting to rebuild the USSR, He will never regain countries like Estonia Latvia, Lithuania...

 

[John Wick]

 

[calibeebee]

“We got McDonald’s at home.”

 

[RustyShackleford]

So mans back to argue that the bad actors in this situation are the people that didn't roll over and give a murderous mad man what he wanted.

And hope he doesn't ask for more

 

[fluid hips]

It's wild how people overseas treat fast food like it's special. And yes I'm aware the menu items are different from what we get

 

[(*Fin)]

The whole effort of this conflict was to secure eastern Ukraine the part where Putin claimed sovereignty for the separatist in easter Ukraine. I dont think they wanted the capital other than to wreck it. The could drone strike the capital all day.

The West is pushing this notion of Putin wanting to rebuild the USSR, He will never regain countries like Estonia Latvia, Lithuania...

No it wasn’t. Russia don’t even got drones that work.