The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[beware the underdog]

MoNeyLiCiouS wrote:

---

So you're gonna sit here and go into history to laugh at the Lakers when we got swept in back to back years? Do you really wanna compare histories?

Um didn't you see CP1708's post? He  forgot that one year they got swept. I was just adding on.

  

 

[|A-Man|]

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

 

[|A-Man|]

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

None of them. We've covered this. No current NBA owner is going to start a competing league. It's up to billionaire basketball fanatics who want NBA teams but don't have them. They would be Larry Ellison and Steve Ballmer. That is the only way a competitive league gets started. Of course, they want NBA teams, and if they even dared start another league, you know they're never getting an NBA team in the future. In regards to a network that would be willing to pick it up, only Fox would. NBC has Olympic coverage (NBA tie-in), plus has a history with the NBA. Fox is the only feasible option. Even then it'd be relegated to regional Fox Sports networks. No national TV. Get those two things in place, and then you can move on to venues, travel, insurance, salaries, etc. It would take so long to actually get started that it'd never come to fruition before this all gets figured out.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

None of them. We've covered this. No current NBA owner is going to start a competing league. It's up to billionaire basketball fanatics who want NBA teams but don't have them. They would be Larry Ellison and Steve Ballmer. That is the only way a competitive league gets started. Of course, they want NBA teams, and if they even dared start another league, you know they're never getting an NBA team in the future. In regards to a network that would be willing to pick it up, only Fox would. NBC has Olympic coverage (NBA tie-in), plus has a history with the NBA. Fox is the only feasible option. Even then it'd be relegated to regional Fox Sports networks. No national TV. Get those two things in place, and then you can move on to venues, travel, insurance, salaries, etc. It would take so long to actually get started that it'd never come to fruition before this all gets figured out.

 

[nychiphophippo]

Word they woulda needed some infrastructure in place before the lockout even started

 

[nychiphophippo]

Word they woulda needed some infrastructure in place before the lockout even started

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

Stop with the 'creating their own league' talk. Every player would have to give up damn near half of what they have in the bank just to get approved for it.
NEVER. GONNA. HAPPEN.

*jackpot post*

 

[everysingletime]

All that alternative league talk is just hot air. The time, money, complexity, manpower, connections necessary to create such a league for 300 players, with venues, tv deals, sponsors, cities is just too much to do on a whim. 

If Hunter and the likes were serious about this, they should've been had a blueprint in place. 

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Never got all the fascination around Simmons, I was never fond of the guy, always just seemed like a douche to me.

exactly. why are people surprised?

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

All that Hunter and Smith talk about creating a new league got me thinking whihc big market owner would drop out of the association and support them.

None of them. We've covered this. No current NBA owner is going to start a competing league. It's up to billionaire basketball fanatics who want NBA teams but don't have them. They would be Larry Ellison and Steve Ballmer. That is the only way a competitive league gets started. Of course, they want NBA teams, and if they even dared start another league, you know they're never getting an NBA team in the future. In regards to a network that would be willing to pick it up, only Fox would. NBC has Olympic coverage (NBA tie-in), plus has a history with the NBA. Fox is the only feasible option. Even then it'd be relegated to regional Fox Sports networks. No national TV. Get those two things in place, and then you can move on to venues, travel, insurance, salaries, etc. It would take so long to actually get started that it'd never come to fruition before this all gets figured out.

Originally Posted by nYcHipHopHippo

Word they woulda needed some infrastructure in place before the lockout even started

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Stop with the 'creating their own league' talk. Every player would have to give up damn near half of what they have in the bank just to get approved for it.
NEVER. GONNA. HAPPEN.

*jackpot post*

Originally Posted by amel223

All that alternative league talk is just hot air. The time, money, complexity, manpower, connections necessary to create such a league for 300 players, with venues, tv deals, sponsors, cities is just too much to do on a whim. 

If Hunter and the likes were serious about this, they should've been had a blueprint in place. 

  
 
^ all of this = a slaves mentality
 
....you're 100% correct in that starting a new league is beyond difficult.
 

....100% CORRECT.
 
 
 
.....and thats EXACTLY why you start off slow with a SERIES OF GAMES.....say, no more than 6 or so? just to test the waters and as a threat to the owners. something along the lines of what i proposed here: http://niketalk.com/topic/319674
 
- ive actually been saying this since the lockout started, but never brought it to NT because i knew dudes are too simple minded to be able to grasp a concept like this.
 
 
.....its basic business and negotiation tactics:
if YOU feel like you're the product and YOU'RE being treated unfairly....
if YOU feel like YOU'RE being treated like a slave.....
if YOU feel like the owners of your contract are acting like they own YOU....
if YOU feel like the owners arent being fair....
(NBA Players words/feelings not mine)
 
....then its up to YOU to do somthing in YOUR FAVOR.
NO ONE is going to do it for YOU.
NO ONE is going to feel sorry for you, well CP1708 will but still....
 
....yeah, um, those owners, and that commisioner that you hate so much? wont do anything for YOU until you try and force their hand. the ONLY way to do this as a NBA player/product is to threaten defection. to show them that YOU dont need THEM to make money off your talents.
 
 
....until then, the owners and commish WILL DO whatever the *@%@ they want to because what are you going to do about it?
 
 
 
....it may work, it may not work. afterall this is play money to some of these owners, but at least you stood up for yourselves and tried. you have to try. if you dont at least attempt to try to help yourself, then ill be damned if im going to feel sorry for you. especially when you have the resources to help yourself. but they have yet to do so. and thats why i say *@%@ the season, these players deserve everything they get (or dont get), and its their fault. the owners are being owners and good businessmen and i cant hate on that. get the players for everything you can.......

 
"its just too hard"
"it would take too much time, money, complexity, manpower, connections necessary to create such a league for 300 players "
 
^ yeah, thats EXACTLY what they want you to say/think, so they can keep doing what they want to. and people wonder how slaves stayed slaves for so many years 

 
 

  @  "just a bunch of hot air"  when the REAL hot air is sitting down to negotiate uneducated, with NO PLAN, and NO LEVERAGE. 
 
 
         

 

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by sooperhooper

I hope they spend all of their millions and are forced to join the working class like us. Then they'll appreciate what they've got.

i don't understand dudes like you.

 

[CP1708]

Vet, I get what you are hoping for, and saying, but it makes ZERO sense. 

The players have a great year, the money is there, the players and owners eventually got close (not sure how close, other agendas in play)  but somewhere close.  Something COULD be done.  That's close enough. 

What you are proposing would have had to have started DURING the NBA season, negotiate with a network, find owners, find venues, and while doing all this, still being negotiating with the NBA?  That seems likely to you? 

Say they get some of that addressed, say a network and 6 owners, plus a couple venues, can't squeeze 400 players in there, so who goes where?  Stars only?  Still don't work.  Refs?  Where they gettin those from? 

So while you're spoutin off at the mouth and sayin no plan no plan no leverage like you know somethin, the whole time your idea is full of a billion holes, and no time to fill them.  Could they "threaten" to do something of the ilk?  Sure.  Would that help?  Maybe, I'll give you it as an option to attempt something.  But viable?  You livin in a dream world and just backin the owners to sound smart, but you aren't.  Name a league in another sport that works.  That tapped into the main market and stole money.  Athletes, interest, owners, etc.  You are livin in a fantasy land if you think that's a plan of action they should have gone with. 

Did they screw up in the negotiations?  Yes probably.  But that was their best course of action.  Should they dissolve the union months ago?  Probably.  They screwed up then, but to act like they should have gone off and done all that other stuff while at the same time trying to get the real job back, then you're crazy.  But go on, act like you smart, dazzle me with your alter-league plans, I would love to hear more. 

 

[CP1708]

Vet, I get what you are hoping for, and saying, but it makes ZERO sense. 

The players have a great year, the money is there, the players and owners eventually got close (not sure how close, other agendas in play)  but somewhere close.  Something COULD be done.  That's close enough. 

What you are proposing would have had to have started DURING the NBA season, negotiate with a network, find owners, find venues, and while doing all this, still being negotiating with the NBA?  That seems likely to you? 

Say they get some of that addressed, say a network and 6 owners, plus a couple venues, can't squeeze 400 players in there, so who goes where?  Stars only?  Still don't work.  Refs?  Where they gettin those from? 

So while you're spoutin off at the mouth and sayin no plan no plan no leverage like you know somethin, the whole time your idea is full of a billion holes, and no time to fill them.  Could they "threaten" to do something of the ilk?  Sure.  Would that help?  Maybe, I'll give you it as an option to attempt something.  But viable?  You livin in a dream world and just backin the owners to sound smart, but you aren't.  Name a league in another sport that works.  That tapped into the main market and stole money.  Athletes, interest, owners, etc.  You are livin in a fantasy land if you think that's a plan of action they should have gone with. 

Did they screw up in the negotiations?  Yes probably.  But that was their best course of action.  Should they dissolve the union months ago?  Probably.  They screwed up then, but to act like they should have gone off and done all that other stuff while at the same time trying to get the real job back, then you're crazy.  But go on, act like you smart, dazzle me with your alter-league plans, I would love to hear more. 

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by CP1708

What you are proposing would have had to have started DURING the NBA season, negotiate with a network, find owners, find venues, and while doing all this, still being negotiating with the NBA?  That seems likely to you?  
 

 
- very likely

.....if these players can muster up these rinky dink charity games, shot with camera phones posted on youtube, surely they can put on those same games...with the same players, just with broadcast network cameras and a deal with a major network and advertisers, in a larger venue for a few games.
 
 

Originally Posted by CP1708


Say they get some of that addressed, say a network and 6 owners, plus a couple venues, can't squeeze 400 players in there, so who goes where?  Stars only?  Still don't work.  Refs?  Where they gettin those from?
 

 

 @ 400 players....further proof that you arent READING

.
 
 
I AM NOT PROPOSING A NEW LEAGUE.....
 
WHAT I AM PROPOSING  IS THE THREAT OF A NEW LEAGUE by showcasing a series of games on a national network, with money made from advertising during those games. 
 
again: .....if these players can muster up these rinky dink charity games, shot with camera phones posted on youtube, surely they can put on those same games...with the same players, just with broadcast network cameras and a deal with a major network and advertisers, in a larger venue.
 
 

Originally Posted by CP1708


So while you're spoutin off at the mouth and sayin no plan no plan no leverage like you know somethin, the whole time your idea is full of a billion holes, and no time to fill them.  Could they "threaten" to do something of the ilk?  Sure.  Would that help?  Maybe, I'll give you it as an option to attempt something.  But viable?  You livin in a dream world and just backin the owners to sound smart, but you aren't.  Name a league in another sport that works.  That tapped into the main market and stole money.  Athletes, interest, owners, etc.  You are livin in a fantasy land if you think that's a plan of action they should have gone with. 

Did they screw up in the negotiations?  Yes probably.  But that was their best course of action.  Should they dissolve the union months ago?  Probably.  They screwed up then, but to act like they should have gone off and done all that other stuff while at the same time trying to get the real job back, then you're crazy.  But go on, act like you smart, dazzle me with your alter-league plans, I would love to hear more. 

 

 @ spouting off at the mouth when its CLEAR you arent even reading my posts, by STILL thinking im talking about starting a new league.
 
 
....let me get this straight. playing these same games in a bigger venue, with better cameras, on national network = a billion holes? jesus, i thought it just added up to 3? 
 
 
....simpletons. *@%%#*@ simpletons, i swear.

 
 
 
....go back and read my man, read, comprehend, then reply. simple.
 
 

 




  

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by CP1708

What you are proposing would have had to have started DURING the NBA season, negotiate with a network, find owners, find venues, and while doing all this, still being negotiating with the NBA?  That seems likely to you?  
 

 
- very likely

.....if these players can muster up these rinky dink charity games, shot with camera phones posted on youtube, surely they can put on those same games...with the same players, just with broadcast network cameras and a deal with a major network and advertisers, in a larger venue for a few games.
 
 

Originally Posted by CP1708


Say they get some of that addressed, say a network and 6 owners, plus a couple venues, can't squeeze 400 players in there, so who goes where?  Stars only?  Still don't work.  Refs?  Where they gettin those from?
 

 

 @ 400 players....further proof that you arent READING

.
 
 
I AM NOT PROPOSING A NEW LEAGUE.....
 
WHAT I AM PROPOSING  IS THE THREAT OF A NEW LEAGUE by showcasing a series of games on a national network, with money made from advertising during those games. 
 
again: .....if these players can muster up these rinky dink charity games, shot with camera phones posted on youtube, surely they can put on those same games...with the same players, just with broadcast network cameras and a deal with a major network and advertisers, in a larger venue.
 
 

Originally Posted by CP1708


So while you're spoutin off at the mouth and sayin no plan no plan no leverage like you know somethin, the whole time your idea is full of a billion holes, and no time to fill them.  Could they "threaten" to do something of the ilk?  Sure.  Would that help?  Maybe, I'll give you it as an option to attempt something.  But viable?  You livin in a dream world and just backin the owners to sound smart, but you aren't.  Name a league in another sport that works.  That tapped into the main market and stole money.  Athletes, interest, owners, etc.  You are livin in a fantasy land if you think that's a plan of action they should have gone with. 

Did they screw up in the negotiations?  Yes probably.  But that was their best course of action.  Should they dissolve the union months ago?  Probably.  They screwed up then, but to act like they should have gone off and done all that other stuff while at the same time trying to get the real job back, then you're crazy.  But go on, act like you smart, dazzle me with your alter-league plans, I would love to hear more. 

 

 @ spouting off at the mouth when its CLEAR you arent even reading my posts, by STILL thinking im talking about starting a new league.
 
 
....let me get this straight. playing these same games in a bigger venue, with better cameras, on national network = a billion holes? jesus, i thought it just added up to 3? 
 
 
....simpletons. *@%%#*@ simpletons, i swear.

 
 
 
....go back and read my man, read, comprehend, then reply. simple.
 
 

 




  

 

[orsrt8]

I read that Stern wants the Union and owners to get back to the negotiating table , but no calls have been made yet... Well, wth is stopping them?

 

[orsrt8]

I read that Stern wants the Union and owners to get back to the negotiating table , but no calls have been made yet... Well, wth is stopping them?

 

[dmbrhs]

Stop yelling.

 

[dmbrhs]

Stop yelling.

 

[PatRiley]

why couldn't they just make a condensed league with 100 players (10 teams), fantasy draft style, less games, and shorter games? Imagine the competition.

 

[PatRiley]

why couldn't they just make a condensed league with 100 players (10 teams), fantasy draft style, less games, and shorter games? Imagine the competition.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by ORSRT8

I read that Stern wants the Union and owners to get back to the negotiating table , but no calls have been made yet... Well, wth is stopping them?

Pride

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by ORSRT8

I read that Stern wants the Union and owners to get back to the negotiating table , but no calls have been made yet... Well, wth is stopping them?

Pride

 

[bigpunoy]

I don't know why they organize a better "charity" circuit. Like each city that is hosting has their local/former college stars versus a traveling "select" squad or something like that. No point of forming a new league because it would never work or last, but there could be something in a more organized charity game structure.