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Originally Posted by CP1708
^
Then how do you explain Bibby havin more balls than Hot Potato Webber?
The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap
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You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by CP1708
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
This. Besides the Detroit group of left overs who won,Boston's chip with the big 3 & La's with Pau everyone other squad was built through the draft, atleast the center pieces the role players we acquired through trades & fa. So 5/6th out of your champions were home grown fashion.
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You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by CP1708
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
This. Besides the Detroit group of left overs who won,Boston's chip with the big 3 & La's with Pau everyone other squad was built through the draft, atleast the center pieces the role players we acquired through trades & fa. So 5/6th out of your champions were home grown fashion.
I'm ending market size crap right here and now. #1 picks, Dwight, Lebron, Rose, Wall, Blake G. Bucks get the #1, Andrew Bogut. Market size or pure dumb luck? It's just how it goes sometimes. Sometimes you get Jake Long #1, sometimes you get Andrew Luck. Alllllll comes down to the players.
I'm ending market size crap right here and now. #1 picks, Dwight, Lebron, Rose, Wall, Blake G. Bucks get the #1, Andrew Bogut. Market size or pure dumb luck? It's just how it goes sometimes. Sometimes you get Jake Long #1, sometimes you get Andrew Luck. Alllllll comes down to the players.
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You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by CP1708
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
How many chips get won without Kareem?
Does Houston win the second championship without Drexler?
You don't think it's advantage to just add a hall of famer like Tiny Archibald to a core of Mchale, Brid and Parish, how many small market teams could afford to keep all three of those guys together? Let alone get Tiny?
You think Detroit wins those championships without Adrian Dantley?
The ability to take on extra salary to make trades, the advantage when it comes to luring free agents, the ability to KEEP good players once you draft them are all advantages that you can't minimize into nothing. Of course you have to draft well, but keeping and adding to that core is more difficult for small market teams.
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You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by CP1708
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
How many chips get won without Kareem?
Does Houston win the second championship without Drexler?
You don't think it's advantage to just add a hall of famer like Tiny Archibald to a core of Mchale, Brid and Parish, how many small market teams could afford to keep all three of those guys together? Let alone get Tiny?
You think Detroit wins those championships without Adrian Dantley?
The ability to take on extra salary to make trades, the advantage when it comes to luring free agents, the ability to KEEP good players once you draft them are all advantages that you can't minimize into nothing. Of course you have to draft well, but keeping and adding to that core is more difficult for small market teams.
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and sometimes you get Kareem or Shaq or Wilt to force a trade.
You are totally right small markets have to get mad lucky just to compete and unlike big markets they cna't get those blue chip players through free agency.
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and sometimes you get Kareem or Shaq or Wilt to force a trade.
You are totally right small markets have to get mad lucky just to compete and unlike big markets they cna't get those blue chip players through free agency.
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I'm posting vicariously through CP for the rest of this thread
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I'm posting vicariously through CP for the rest of this thread
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Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
How many chips get won without Kareem?Originally Posted by CP1708
You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?That ain't market size, that's cup size. They had small cups is all.
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
Does Houston win the second championship without Drexler?
You don't think it's advantage to just add a hall of famer like Tiny Archibald to a core of Mchale, Brid and Parish, how many small market teams could afford to keep all three of those guys together? Let alone get Tiny?
You think Detroit wins those championships without Adrian Dantley?
The ability to take on extra salary to make trades, the advantage when it comes to luring free agents, the ability to KEEP good players once you draft them are all advantages that you can't minimize into nothing. Of course you have to draft well, but keeping and adding to that core is more difficult for small market teams.
Dude just shut up.
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Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
How many chips get won without Kareem?Originally Posted by CP1708
You mean the Bucks that traded Dirk?Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
See this is my point, does Milwaukee get the gift trade? How about Sacramento? %+!# no, Boston gets it because it's Boston and players want to play their but if the cap is harder and things like sign and trades are abolished it makes it more difficult for things like that to happen.
Besides the spurs.
PHI, LA, CHI, BOS, HOU, DETROIT have won all the championships for the past 30 years is that coincidence?
The Kings that had a team full of talent, but no balls?That ain't market size, that's cup size. They had small cups is all.
Yeah, LA drafted Magic and Worthy, Bulls drafted MJ and Pip, Boston drafted Bird, and draft day trade for McHale and Chief. Houston drafted Dream, and Horry too for that matter, Detroit draft Isiah, Dumars, etc. Nail the draft, win titles. Duncan and David, drafted.......
Does Houston win the second championship without Drexler?
You don't think it's advantage to just add a hall of famer like Tiny Archibald to a core of Mchale, Brid and Parish, how many small market teams could afford to keep all three of those guys together? Let alone get Tiny?
You think Detroit wins those championships without Adrian Dantley?
The ability to take on extra salary to make trades, the advantage when it comes to luring free agents, the ability to KEEP good players once you draft them are all advantages that you can't minimize into nothing. Of course you have to draft well, but keeping and adding to that core is more difficult for small market teams.
Dude just shut up.
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everysingletime
formerly amel223
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*sigh*
This is getting frustrating. Do any of you guys look at big pictures? Can you connect dots without hands being held? Here, I'll talk a lot slower for you, ok?
Owner X makes hundreds of millions off Lebron type player for first 4 years of Lebron's deal. Hundreds of mil. You with me?
Now, Owner X has to pay some other bums, 3-5-7-9 million as well, KNOWING that he makes hundreds of millions off just the Lebron type kid, for 4 years. Are you still with me? Do you see how much is being made still?
Yes, all Lebron's, Dwights, etc will get paid, no I do not worry about them. Cream will rise to the top. But those players DRIVE the money. Why would I need to worry about a Ronny Turiaf type guy that will only play 5-6 years and make what, 12-15 million his whole career? Owners don't give a @#$% about any of that. They can conceivably make what, 250 mil in 4 years of Lebron? More? 500 mil? Go low, say Lebron busts, owner makes 150 mil maybe, just off the initial buzz, and hope, and maybe next year etc etc. So 150 to 500 mil, Bron gets paid 25 mil. Pretty decent money was just made by that owner, no?
You can talk about an NBA player's shelf life all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that in the span of 10-12 years they make more than tons of hard working people make in a lifetime, and some of them earn that money doing literally nothing.
I work hard. But nobody buys a 9 dollar beer to watch me work. My daughters teacher works hard, but Transformers 3 doesn't pay add time on the side of her classroom. My wife's feet hurt at work, but Nike don't feel like puttin some high tech shoes on her feet, nobody will see them. You writin all this down? Because that's the way the world spins. It's how money is made/spent/earned. People want to come home from work, and be entertained. Be it sports, movies, wrestling, porn, what the hell ever. People spend their hard earned money on entertainment. And companies pay their money to advertise their products when people watch the most. Why you think infomercials are always on at 3 AM? Cuz everyone asleep dude. Ain't nobody watching. You don't see a lot of infomercials during halftime of the super bowl do you? Why is that? Go away with all the "make tons of money more than hard working poor souls", blah blah blah, grow up. World been this way for 100 years. People used to pay 700 dollars for VCR's, now they can't sell one for a twenty. Consumer money moves where the action is.
The lower teir'd guys salaries are paid by the big dogs earning potential. Damon Jones don't earn his money with the Cavs, Bron earn's Jones money, hence their importance. That may be simplyfying it a bit, but you get the point. Bron generates so much for the Cavs, they can pay X amount of salaries off him alone. (during the rookie deal that is)
Kevin Garnett in Minny. 4 year rook deal, Minnesota made a lot of money for a while, what if they kept Ray Allen instead of Marbury? Ray could have taken the big shots for KG, add another peice here or there, suddenly small market Minnesota has a longer shelf life. Instead they tried to home run with Marbury, dude was a head case, end of story.
Milwaukee, trades Dirk on draft day.Small market woes.
OKC isn't OKC if Portland doesn't take Oden. Small market advantage? No, plain and simple luck. Luck happens.
Clips get the #1 pick, take Olowakandi. Lakers get 10 pick few years later, take Bynum. One fails, other succeeds. Market? Or simply luck + coaching/talent eval?
People that try to place blame on market are scapegoating. In the end ALL OF IT, comes down to talent, players, and coaching/management moves. Size of the city, cost of the beers, amount of hats you sell, none of that garbage matters. It's the players.
For those small markets, they need to take the money they save off rookie contracts and re-invest it in scouting, personnel evaluators. My company invests all of it's free money into R & D, Research and Development, that's what small market clubs can do when they win a lottery and get a guy that generates far more than he is paid. Why is it the Spurs scout so well and take Tony Parker and Manu late, but the Bucks don't take them, or the Grizz (who have improved greatly) or the Warriors, etc etc? Better scouting departments, better scouts. Smarter GM's. People need to let the market stuff go already. Please.
You have a couple different arguments here :
1-small market vs. big
2-players are grossly underpaid compared to the money they generate, of which the owners are the largest beneficiaries. their draw drives teams, and it's what drives salaries for lower tiered players.
Honestly, that first argument I'm just going to leave alone ... My team is the Bulls and they are a big market team so I can see where you're coming from. You feel offended by the argument because it's like people are saying that the Lakers have an unfair competitive advantage due to their larger pockets. Ok. Understood.
As for argument two... Yes, I do understand the whole thing about how the big players are what drives the revenue for the nba. I'm just telling you those players are going to be fine. It's the "lower class" players that are going to feel the pinch.
And I say, rightfully so. It's not like those players drive the money right?
everysingletime
formerly amel223
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*sigh*
This is getting frustrating. Do any of you guys look at big pictures? Can you connect dots without hands being held? Here, I'll talk a lot slower for you, ok?
Owner X makes hundreds of millions off Lebron type player for first 4 years of Lebron's deal. Hundreds of mil. You with me?
Now, Owner X has to pay some other bums, 3-5-7-9 million as well, KNOWING that he makes hundreds of millions off just the Lebron type kid, for 4 years. Are you still with me? Do you see how much is being made still?
Yes, all Lebron's, Dwights, etc will get paid, no I do not worry about them. Cream will rise to the top. But those players DRIVE the money. Why would I need to worry about a Ronny Turiaf type guy that will only play 5-6 years and make what, 12-15 million his whole career? Owners don't give a @#$% about any of that. They can conceivably make what, 250 mil in 4 years of Lebron? More? 500 mil? Go low, say Lebron busts, owner makes 150 mil maybe, just off the initial buzz, and hope, and maybe next year etc etc. So 150 to 500 mil, Bron gets paid 25 mil. Pretty decent money was just made by that owner, no?
You can talk about an NBA player's shelf life all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that in the span of 10-12 years they make more than tons of hard working people make in a lifetime, and some of them earn that money doing literally nothing.
I work hard. But nobody buys a 9 dollar beer to watch me work. My daughters teacher works hard, but Transformers 3 doesn't pay add time on the side of her classroom. My wife's feet hurt at work, but Nike don't feel like puttin some high tech shoes on her feet, nobody will see them. You writin all this down? Because that's the way the world spins. It's how money is made/spent/earned. People want to come home from work, and be entertained. Be it sports, movies, wrestling, porn, what the hell ever. People spend their hard earned money on entertainment. And companies pay their money to advertise their products when people watch the most. Why you think infomercials are always on at 3 AM? Cuz everyone asleep dude. Ain't nobody watching. You don't see a lot of infomercials during halftime of the super bowl do you? Why is that? Go away with all the "make tons of money more than hard working poor souls", blah blah blah, grow up. World been this way for 100 years. People used to pay 700 dollars for VCR's, now they can't sell one for a twenty. Consumer money moves where the action is.
The lower teir'd guys salaries are paid by the big dogs earning potential. Damon Jones don't earn his money with the Cavs, Bron earn's Jones money, hence their importance. That may be simplyfying it a bit, but you get the point. Bron generates so much for the Cavs, they can pay X amount of salaries off him alone. (during the rookie deal that is)
Kevin Garnett in Minny. 4 year rook deal, Minnesota made a lot of money for a while, what if they kept Ray Allen instead of Marbury? Ray could have taken the big shots for KG, add another peice here or there, suddenly small market Minnesota has a longer shelf life. Instead they tried to home run with Marbury, dude was a head case, end of story.
Milwaukee, trades Dirk on draft day.Small market woes.
OKC isn't OKC if Portland doesn't take Oden. Small market advantage? No, plain and simple luck. Luck happens.
Clips get the #1 pick, take Olowakandi. Lakers get 10 pick few years later, take Bynum. One fails, other succeeds. Market? Or simply luck + coaching/talent eval?
People that try to place blame on market are scapegoating. In the end ALL OF IT, comes down to talent, players, and coaching/management moves. Size of the city, cost of the beers, amount of hats you sell, none of that garbage matters. It's the players.
For those small markets, they need to take the money they save off rookie contracts and re-invest it in scouting, personnel evaluators. My company invests all of it's free money into R & D, Research and Development, that's what small market clubs can do when they win a lottery and get a guy that generates far more than he is paid. Why is it the Spurs scout so well and take Tony Parker and Manu late, but the Bucks don't take them, or the Grizz (who have improved greatly) or the Warriors, etc etc? Better scouting departments, better scouts. Smarter GM's. People need to let the market stuff go already. Please.
You have a couple different arguments here :
1-small market vs. big
2-players are grossly underpaid compared to the money they generate, of which the owners are the largest beneficiaries. their draw drives teams, and it's what drives salaries for lower tiered players.
Honestly, that first argument I'm just going to leave alone ... My team is the Bulls and they are a big market team so I can see where you're coming from. You feel offended by the argument because it's like people are saying that the Lakers have an unfair competitive advantage due to their larger pockets. Ok. Understood.
As for argument two... Yes, I do understand the whole thing about how the big players are what drives the revenue for the nba. I'm just telling you those players are going to be fine. It's the "lower class" players that are going to feel the pinch.
And I say, rightfully so. It's not like those players drive the money right?
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Uhh. Can we get a title change
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Uhh. Can we get a title change
I actually laugh at people who keep claiming the Lakers are filthy rich because of LA. Buss is a doctor, rich, yes, well off, yes, but dirty rich? No. Not close.
Paul Allen is dirty rich. Mark Cuban is dirty rich. New Jersey dude is dirty rich. But they don't win like LA does, for the 400th time, it ain't money, it's players.
Buss spent enough money to pay Shaq, and Kobe, and 10 other 5 million dollar dudes. Allen paid 12 dudes top free agent dollar, and which team won 3 years in row over the other? Oh, the 2 big salary guys.
Stop using market/money as the basis of why teams fail or succeed. It's ridiculous.
Paul Allen is dirty rich. Mark Cuban is dirty rich. New Jersey dude is dirty rich. But they don't win like LA does, for the 400th time, it ain't money, it's players.
Buss spent enough money to pay Shaq, and Kobe, and 10 other 5 million dollar dudes. Allen paid 12 dudes top free agent dollar, and which team won 3 years in row over the other? Oh, the 2 big salary guys.
Stop using market/money as the basis of why teams fail or succeed. It's ridiculous.
I actually laugh at people who keep claiming the Lakers are filthy rich because of LA. Buss is a doctor, rich, yes, well off, yes, but dirty rich? No. Not close.
Paul Allen is dirty rich. Mark Cuban is dirty rich. New Jersey dude is dirty rich. But they don't win like LA does, for the 400th time, it ain't money, it's players.
Buss spent enough money to pay Shaq, and Kobe, and 10 other 5 million dollar dudes. Allen paid 12 dudes top free agent dollar, and which team won 3 years in row over the other? Oh, the 2 big salary guys.
Stop using market/money as the basis of why teams fail or succeed. It's ridiculous.
Paul Allen is dirty rich. Mark Cuban is dirty rich. New Jersey dude is dirty rich. But they don't win like LA does, for the 400th time, it ain't money, it's players.
Buss spent enough money to pay Shaq, and Kobe, and 10 other 5 million dollar dudes. Allen paid 12 dudes top free agent dollar, and which team won 3 years in row over the other? Oh, the 2 big salary guys.
Stop using market/money as the basis of why teams fail or succeed. It's ridiculous.
big j 33
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[h1]NBA is forgetting about key group of players[/h1]
2011 LOCKOUT, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT | COMMENTS
Blake Griffin is worth much more than he'll receive in his first five years on a rookie deal. (Matthew Emmons/US PRESSWIRE)
It’s easy for even hardcore fans to get lost amid the detailed changes owners would like in the salary cap, luxury tax, Bird Rights, contract length and other nitty-gritty “system issues.
2011 LOCKOUT, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT | COMMENTS
Blake Griffin is worth much more than he'll receive in his first five years on a rookie deal. (Matthew Emmons/US PRESSWIRE)
It’s easy for even hardcore fans to get lost amid the detailed changes owners would like in the salary cap, luxury tax, Bird Rights, contract length and other nitty-gritty “system issues.
big j 33
Supporter
- 35,968
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[h1]NBA is forgetting about key group of players[/h1]
2011 LOCKOUT, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT | COMMENTS
Blake Griffin is worth much more than he'll receive in his first five years on a rookie deal. (Matthew Emmons/US PRESSWIRE)
It’s easy for even hardcore fans to get lost amid the detailed changes owners would like in the salary cap, luxury tax, Bird Rights, contract length and other nitty-gritty “system issues.
2011 LOCKOUT, COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT | COMMENTS
Blake Griffin is worth much more than he'll receive in his first five years on a rookie deal. (Matthew Emmons/US PRESSWIRE)
It’s easy for even hardcore fans to get lost amid the detailed changes owners would like in the salary cap, luxury tax, Bird Rights, contract length and other nitty-gritty “system issues.
