The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by gangsta207therevolution,
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I mean I always see folks post OKC as todays model to follow but they were top 4 in the lottery 3 years.
Portland got Aldridge, Roy, & Oden in 2 drafts
I eluded earlier that I hope Jan Vesely pans out because the clock was ticking on John Wall in Washington.
Small markets that have to build through the draft have to be extremely lucky seeing how fickle the lottery can be. Pretty much got to be bottom 5 bad plus lucky.
Portland got Aldridge, Roy, & Oden in 2 drafts
I eluded earlier that I hope Jan Vesely pans out because the clock was ticking on John Wall in Washington.
Small markets that have to build through the draft have to be extremely lucky seeing how fickle the lottery can be. Pretty much got to be bottom 5 bad plus lucky.
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I mean I always see folks post OKC as todays model to follow but they were top 4 in the lottery 3 years.
Portland got Aldridge, Roy, & Oden in 2 drafts
I eluded earlier that I hope Jan Vesely pans out because the clock was ticking on John Wall in Washington.
Small markets that have to build through the draft have to be extremely lucky seeing how fickle the lottery can be. Pretty much got to be bottom 5 bad plus lucky.
Portland got Aldridge, Roy, & Oden in 2 drafts
I eluded earlier that I hope Jan Vesely pans out because the clock was ticking on John Wall in Washington.
Small markets that have to build through the draft have to be extremely lucky seeing how fickle the lottery can be. Pretty much got to be bottom 5 bad plus lucky.
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dude, you gonna claim CHI's chips are because of a big market?
seriously?
hakeem would have went nuts in a big market
seriously?
hakeem would have went nuts in a big market
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I actually agree that market doesn't matter but your argument is flawed. LA's owner might not be filthy rich compared to NJ's owner but the Lakers actually make a TON of money compared to NJ because of their market. LA owner is much more likely to spend if his team is top 2 in revenue year in and year out. Lakers probably make 10x as much on their TV deal as other teams. Same thing with the Knicks.
BUT I don't know how small market teams can complain. When you guys are in your season threads do you guys complain about the system? Or the weak GMs making decisions and the bad coaching? Milwaukee Bucks are a PERFECT example of a small market team making boneheaded decisions. 2 years ago, they were selling out every game, made a nice run into the playoffs with a nice core of Brandon Jennings and Andrew Bogut (surrounded by nice roleplayers like Salmons, Ilyasova, Delfino, etc.) They could've taken that team and let them grow together while maintaining flexibility just in case a crazy deal pops up. They wouldn't have been contenders but they'd still be young with room to improve. (OKC model) Offseason rolls around and what do they do? They acquire Drew Gooden and Corey Maggette (two notorious losers who put up stats on bad teams) who are owed about 16 million per season between the two of them.
In one offseason they make their team worse while getting rid of ALL flexibility they have plus making them AT BEST a 6-7th seed for the next couple years. It's hard to blame the system when teams that don't make dumb decisions generally end up doing fine. Portland has had the worst luck in the league with injuries and yet they put out a great product year in and year out because of good management. Please find me recent examples of the system screwing over small market teams and not stupid decisions.
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I actually agree that market doesn't matter but your argument is flawed. LA's owner might not be filthy rich compared to NJ's owner but the Lakers actually make a TON of money compared to NJ because of their market. LA owner is much more likely to spend if his team is top 2 in revenue year in and year out. Lakers probably make 10x as much on their TV deal as other teams. Same thing with the Knicks.
BUT I don't know how small market teams can complain. When you guys are in your season threads do you guys complain about the system? Or the weak GMs making decisions and the bad coaching? Milwaukee Bucks are a PERFECT example of a small market team making boneheaded decisions. 2 years ago, they were selling out every game, made a nice run into the playoffs with a nice core of Brandon Jennings and Andrew Bogut (surrounded by nice roleplayers like Salmons, Ilyasova, Delfino, etc.) They could've taken that team and let them grow together while maintaining flexibility just in case a crazy deal pops up. They wouldn't have been contenders but they'd still be young with room to improve. (OKC model) Offseason rolls around and what do they do? They acquire Drew Gooden and Corey Maggette (two notorious losers who put up stats on bad teams) who are owed about 16 million per season between the two of them.
In one offseason they make their team worse while getting rid of ALL flexibility they have plus making them AT BEST a 6-7th seed for the next couple years. It's hard to blame the system when teams that don't make dumb decisions generally end up doing fine. Portland has had the worst luck in the league with injuries and yet they put out a great product year in and year out because of good management. Please find me recent examples of the system screwing over small market teams and not stupid decisions.
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jpzx
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Are you really in a position to speak, though? Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Michael Sweetney, Renaldo Balkman, Mardy Collins, etc. 5 of your last 8 first round picks are complete scrubs and/or didn't live up to their draft position...
^ This is why CP. The New York Knicks %@%! up drafts on the reg, but lures Amare Stoudemire through free agency despite having awful management, and has Carmelo Anthony literally BEGGING to get traded to New York despite awful management. Reason: Big market. People want to play in New York. People want to play in Los Angeles, and people want to play in Chicago. Set aside your bias for a second, and open your eyes.
jpzx
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Are you really in a position to speak, though? Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Michael Sweetney, Renaldo Balkman, Mardy Collins, etc. 5 of your last 8 first round picks are complete scrubs and/or didn't live up to their draft position...
^ This is why CP. The New York Knicks %@%! up drafts on the reg, but lures Amare Stoudemire through free agency despite having awful management, and has Carmelo Anthony literally BEGGING to get traded to New York despite awful management. Reason: Big market. People want to play in New York. People want to play in Los Angeles, and people want to play in Chicago. Set aside your bias for a second, and open your eyes.
Basically what I was refering too with Buss was how automatic decsions to us, he can't simply do. Like how he haggled with Lamar Odom, we all wanted him signed quick, as people say, our "market" dictates we have endless money, but Buss wasn't sure he could afford it. He isn't a blank check owner like people seem to think the Lakers are. That tv deal we signed may bring more money in, but it hasn't been there all along now.
Buss has been cautious with his money, always, see Shaquille O'Neal if you aren't sure. And THAT'S what it comes down too, smart business moves with players. Not willy nilly free spending cuz you live in a big city.
Small markets like the Jazz, the Pacers, the Cavs, the Magic all made the finals, the Spurs won, and the Pistons aren't huge either. They come up short, based off big time players, and there aren't a ton of those to go around. That's bottom line.
Buss has been cautious with his money, always, see Shaquille O'Neal if you aren't sure. And THAT'S what it comes down too, smart business moves with players. Not willy nilly free spending cuz you live in a big city.
Small markets like the Jazz, the Pacers, the Cavs, the Magic all made the finals, the Spurs won, and the Pistons aren't huge either. They come up short, based off big time players, and there aren't a ton of those to go around. That's bottom line.
Basically what I was refering too with Buss was how automatic decsions to us, he can't simply do. Like how he haggled with Lamar Odom, we all wanted him signed quick, as people say, our "market" dictates we have endless money, but Buss wasn't sure he could afford it. He isn't a blank check owner like people seem to think the Lakers are. That tv deal we signed may bring more money in, but it hasn't been there all along now.
Buss has been cautious with his money, always, see Shaquille O'Neal if you aren't sure. And THAT'S what it comes down too, smart business moves with players. Not willy nilly free spending cuz you live in a big city.
Small markets like the Jazz, the Pacers, the Cavs, the Magic all made the finals, the Spurs won, and the Pistons aren't huge either. They come up short, based off big time players, and there aren't a ton of those to go around. That's bottom line.
Buss has been cautious with his money, always, see Shaquille O'Neal if you aren't sure. And THAT'S what it comes down too, smart business moves with players. Not willy nilly free spending cuz you live in a big city.
Small markets like the Jazz, the Pacers, the Cavs, the Magic all made the finals, the Spurs won, and the Pistons aren't huge either. They come up short, based off big time players, and there aren't a ton of those to go around. That's bottom line.
What players have begged to go to Chicago?
So because Amare and Melo wanted to join a 3some like in Miami, suddenly it's all about NY? Where the @#$% were all the signings the becades before that? You all actin like NY gets players every year like they the Yankees. The hell are you guys talking about?
Bias, what bias? Over a city? You think I care cuz I like the Lakers, serious right here?
I've given 55 examples in here, none of them mean a GOD DAMN THING to what city I watch, root for, enjoy, etc. Jesus Christ, I live a half hour from Portland guys, and they have more money than any team out there, WHAT BIAS???????
Ya'll minds are locked up, I swear. Stern got mind control over you dudes.
So because Amare and Melo wanted to join a 3some like in Miami, suddenly it's all about NY? Where the @#$% were all the signings the becades before that? You all actin like NY gets players every year like they the Yankees. The hell are you guys talking about?
Bias, what bias? Over a city? You think I care cuz I like the Lakers, serious right here?
Ya'll minds are locked up, I swear. Stern got mind control over you dudes.
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partially agree
a few faults
1- knicks haven't had a top 4 pick in ages. maybe even top 6 or 7 im lazy and would appreciate someone telling me
2- more importantly Sarver tried to give amare a football contract. out of his own mouth he would be on the suns if they paid what the knocks paid.
,elo i cant argue. that was all market and money. But you gotta keep wifey happey
just wanna take a timeout and applaud everyone for the good discussion. every other site i know of sucks when it comes to proper conversation on intense wedge issues
lawdog1
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^^^ I think one argument is that smaller market teams feel pressure to make those kind of moves (i.e. the Maggettee and Gooden signings in Miluakee) just to have a chance a staying competitive. They are most likely not going to be able to sign the top tier guys, so they have to go after 2nd and 3rd tier guys. They do that because the feel like they have to be able to field a winning team to keep their current players happy to have some kind of insurance against their best players bolting for other opportunities the minute they become free agents. Some guys get sick of being in the lottery year after year and would rather go elsewhere, then stick a team and hope that a few draft picks really pan out. Yes, Portland and OKC are good, recent examples of teams building successfully through the draft. But there are also teams like Golden State and Sacramento that seem to have lottery picks every year and not get anywhere.
So, in my opinion, market does matter. It can be overcome by good ownerhsip and savvy management, like has happened in San Antonio, but it does make a difference. At least in the current NBA, bigger market teams generally have better chances of being able to sign the best, most highly sought after FAs.
So, in my opinion, market does matter. It can be overcome by good ownerhsip and savvy management, like has happened in San Antonio, but it does make a difference. At least in the current NBA, bigger market teams generally have better chances of being able to sign the best, most highly sought after FAs.
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Milwaukee
talk about a small market really screwing themselves last summer.
Edit:
I'm positive I posted an article awhile back comparing the parity in the NBA to the parity in the NFL and MLB. Champions wise, there isn't much parity, but comparing conference finalists, there was parity in the NBA.
Edit:
I'm positive I posted an article awhile back comparing the parity in the NBA to the parity in the NFL and MLB. Champions wise, there isn't much parity, but comparing conference finalists, there was parity in the NBA.
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Yup. Others may not see eye to eye but man this thread has help MANY understand view points from both the players and owners.
Wish we didn't have to talk about this stuff tho. I want NBA/SPURS bastketball.
big j 33
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Originally Posted by CP1708
What players have begged to go to Chicago?
So because Amare and Melo wanted to join a 3some like in Miami, suddenly it's all about NY? Where the @#$% were all the signings the becades before that? You all actin like NY gets players every year like they the Yankees. The hell are you guys talking about?
Bias, what bias? Over a city? You think I care cuz I like the Lakers, serious right here?I've given 55 examples in here, none of them mean a GOD DAMN THING to what city I watch, root for, enjoy, etc. Jesus Christ, I live a half hour from Portland guys, and they have more money than any team out there, WHAT BIAS???????
Ya'll minds are locked up, I swear. Stern got mind control over you dudes.
You're letting other things influence you right now CP, I'm not a Stern fan nor siding with the owners... but I can admit small markets have a disadvantage, in fact, Stern has nothing to do with this conversation.
The Knicks haven't had enough cap space to really attract top guys because of awful trades and players eating up our space. Maybe they were influenced by the Big 3 in Miami, but that's irrelevant, Amare went to NY because we had money and because it's New York. Melo wanted here because of the big stage. If we were in Kansas City and had the same situation.. we do not get both of those players, bottomline.
Big markets have and will continue to attract big free agents because of their location. The Lakers have benefited from it, that's probably where people are talking about bias for you. If the Lakers weren't in LA, their history is not the same and they do not win as many titles. Do I think this advantage is enough to claim small markets are being unfairly treated in the NBA by big ones? No, not at all. But I do think there's a difference between a big and small market. Ownership, drafting, the signings you do make, etc. all contribute to your team's success. Both small and big markets have to deal with those same issues, but the difference is big markets will get better free agents because of their location.
Drafting well is as much luck as proper scouting, coaching, etc. Not just getting that #1 superstar, but you need to get another good-great player for his #2... then maybe another 3rd player who is a contributor in your rotation. So it's easy to say teams should follow the SA or OKC model... well that's the model every team has, get top lotto picks and make the right choices that pan out. Small market teams have been successful and gotten to the Finals, and for reasons unrelated to their location might lose. OKC, Cleveland, and Orlando losing in the playoffs has nothing to do with their location, I don't think anyone is arguing against that... but rather there does exist a difference between the two, whether or not it's a big problem is up to the individual.
big j 33
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Originally Posted by CP1708
What players have begged to go to Chicago?
So because Amare and Melo wanted to join a 3some like in Miami, suddenly it's all about NY? Where the @#$% were all the signings the becades before that? You all actin like NY gets players every year like they the Yankees. The hell are you guys talking about?
Bias, what bias? Over a city? You think I care cuz I like the Lakers, serious right here?I've given 55 examples in here, none of them mean a GOD DAMN THING to what city I watch, root for, enjoy, etc. Jesus Christ, I live a half hour from Portland guys, and they have more money than any team out there, WHAT BIAS???????
Ya'll minds are locked up, I swear. Stern got mind control over you dudes.
You're letting other things influence you right now CP, I'm not a Stern fan nor siding with the owners... but I can admit small markets have a disadvantage, in fact, Stern has nothing to do with this conversation.
The Knicks haven't had enough cap space to really attract top guys because of awful trades and players eating up our space. Maybe they were influenced by the Big 3 in Miami, but that's irrelevant, Amare went to NY because we had money and because it's New York. Melo wanted here because of the big stage. If we were in Kansas City and had the same situation.. we do not get both of those players, bottomline.
Big markets have and will continue to attract big free agents because of their location. The Lakers have benefited from it, that's probably where people are talking about bias for you. If the Lakers weren't in LA, their history is not the same and they do not win as many titles. Do I think this advantage is enough to claim small markets are being unfairly treated in the NBA by big ones? No, not at all. But I do think there's a difference between a big and small market. Ownership, drafting, the signings you do make, etc. all contribute to your team's success. Both small and big markets have to deal with those same issues, but the difference is big markets will get better free agents because of their location.
Drafting well is as much luck as proper scouting, coaching, etc. Not just getting that #1 superstar, but you need to get another good-great player for his #2... then maybe another 3rd player who is a contributor in your rotation. So it's easy to say teams should follow the SA or OKC model... well that's the model every team has, get top lotto picks and make the right choices that pan out. Small market teams have been successful and gotten to the Finals, and for reasons unrelated to their location might lose. OKC, Cleveland, and Orlando losing in the playoffs has nothing to do with their location, I don't think anyone is arguing against that... but rather there does exist a difference between the two, whether or not it's a big problem is up to the individual.
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The last time the Knicks had cap space or room to maneuver, they landed Allan Houston and worked out a trade for Larry Johnson.
They missed on LeBron, had to settle for Amare. Miss on Reggie Miller, settle for Allan Houston. Smaller markets in free agency just don't have those fall back options.
They missed on LeBron, had to settle for Amare. Miss on Reggie Miller, settle for Allan Houston. Smaller markets in free agency just don't have those fall back options.
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The last time the Knicks had cap space or room to maneuver, they landed Allan Houston and worked out a trade for Larry Johnson.
They missed on LeBron, had to settle for Amare. Miss on Reggie Miller, settle for Allan Houston. Smaller markets in free agency just don't have those fall back options.
They missed on LeBron, had to settle for Amare. Miss on Reggie Miller, settle for Allan Houston. Smaller markets in free agency just don't have those fall back options.
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i got a question
would the miami heat trio happen if it wasn't by a beach?
miami isnt a big market as much as you guys like to gloss over the fact
would the miami heat trio happen if it wasn't by a beach?
miami isnt a big market as much as you guys like to gloss over the fact
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i got a question
would the miami heat trio happen if it wasn't by a beach?
miami isnt a big market as much as you guys like to gloss over the fact
would the miami heat trio happen if it wasn't by a beach?
miami isnt a big market as much as you guys like to gloss over the fact
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We $!!+*% up worse than Minny, trust me. Besides for LA, NY, and maybe Dallas i dont see any other teams being a big market team that would attract superstars.
Most superstars choose the best place to win before they choose the best place to live.
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We $!!+*% up worse than Minny, trust me. Besides for LA, NY, and maybe Dallas i dont see any other teams being a big market team that would attract superstars.
Most superstars choose the best place to win before they choose the best place to live.
