The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Big J, Doo was the first to start crying about market size and some others agreed. Doo with the "its just not fair!!!!"

And when the og topic on Twitter started, it was brought up there. Allen and Osh make points, and I hear those, but some others have been blaming markets as unfair advantages and such, that's what I'm refuting.

Understood.

CosmicCanon wrote:

---

I understand Houston will have 2 extra picks that WON'T be lottery picks.
However, given the fact that you can't rule a player out til AFTER his 3rd or 4th year, they have a lot of players that are CHEAP and HAVE POTENTIAL.

Everyone on the Rockets' roster fits that description, sans Lowry/Scola/Martin/Dragic. So AT LEAST 7 of their players, have 3 years- of experience.

Also, let's not disregard 1st round picks outside of the lottery. In the past three drafts, we've had NUMEROUS players non-lottery that are good.

Those players are the following:

Taj Gibson

Jrue Holiday

Eric Bledsoe

Landry Fields

Jeff Teague

Darren Collison

Toney Douglas

 Rodrigue Beaubois

Dejuan Blair

Chase Budinger

That's 10 players bruh, and people wanna say "you can't find good players past the lottery". 

 So it's fathomable, for the Rockets to find a solid player. Whether it's a role player type starter, or key guy off the bench, the Rockets CAN find a player with those two late picks.

Also, the Rockets WILL have a top-5 worst record this year(or whenever the NBA resumes), so they WILL be in the running for the 1st pick in 2012. Maybe in 2013 as well, depending on where they pick next year. So AT WORST they'll have a top 6 draft pick in a GREAT draft next year. 

Finally, the extra picks and cheap talent, creates FLEXIBILITY for the Rockets. If Morey(Rockets' GM) wanted to, he could make a push for CP3 or Dwight. Very unlikely he does that(since the Rockets are rebuilding), but having a surplus of picks/young talent, allows teams to target big-time players through trades. Coincidentally, this franchise(Rockets) did that in acquiring Tracy McGrady(a superstar in 2004). My final point, is that small-mid markets WILL NEVER be able to draw FA like NY/Chicago/LA.  Simply because, small-mid markets aren't AS DESIRABLE like NY/Chicago/LA. However, they can get a type A talent through the draft, or by stockpiling on picks/young talent to TRADE for a type A talent.

So let's just end the "small markets can't win" nonsense. 

All of that, just fantastic stuff. You say 10 good players out of 3 years of non-lotto picks... that's not exactly a great percentage there. And why can't we rule out a player until his 3rd or 4th year? Where's that in the rules? Sure, it's possible, but do you actually think Jordan Hill will develop into a rotation player on a playoff team?, do you think Thabeet will pan out? Do you know anything about Motiejunas' game? I'll give you Lee, he's solid right now, but like I said, not that young. Sure, they could have "potential" but I'm speaking directly to this team right now.
You're not telling me anything I haven't said or agreed with. I directly say in there, I see what you're saying and in theory it works, but I'm speaking about the Rockets specifically as the model to follow and the benchmark. I know small markets aren't desirable, I've been repeating that myself the last few pages, but using the Rockets as an example of "small markets can't win" is illogical right now, because they haven't won using this  benchmark model you've described. 

Like I've said, when the Rockets trade their young "talent" for an established star and/or a higher pick and he pans out.. then I absolutely agree with you, but they haven't done that yet and I don't think their players are all that appealing at this point.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Big J, Doo was the first to start crying about market size and some others agreed. Doo with the "its just not fair!!!!"

And when the og topic on Twitter started, it was brought up there. Allen and Osh make points, and I hear those, but some others have been blaming markets as unfair advantages and such, that's what I'm refuting.

Understood.

CosmicCanon wrote:

---

I understand Houston will have 2 extra picks that WON'T be lottery picks.
However, given the fact that you can't rule a player out til AFTER his 3rd or 4th year, they have a lot of players that are CHEAP and HAVE POTENTIAL.

Everyone on the Rockets' roster fits that description, sans Lowry/Scola/Martin/Dragic. So AT LEAST 7 of their players, have 3 years- of experience.

Also, let's not disregard 1st round picks outside of the lottery. In the past three drafts, we've had NUMEROUS players non-lottery that are good.

Those players are the following:

Taj Gibson

Jrue Holiday

Eric Bledsoe

Landry Fields

Jeff Teague

Darren Collison

Toney Douglas

 Rodrigue Beaubois

Dejuan Blair

Chase Budinger

That's 10 players bruh, and people wanna say "you can't find good players past the lottery". 

 So it's fathomable, for the Rockets to find a solid player. Whether it's a role player type starter, or key guy off the bench, the Rockets CAN find a player with those two late picks.

Also, the Rockets WILL have a top-5 worst record this year(or whenever the NBA resumes), so they WILL be in the running for the 1st pick in 2012. Maybe in 2013 as well, depending on where they pick next year. So AT WORST they'll have a top 6 draft pick in a GREAT draft next year. 

Finally, the extra picks and cheap talent, creates FLEXIBILITY for the Rockets. If Morey(Rockets' GM) wanted to, he could make a push for CP3 or Dwight. Very unlikely he does that(since the Rockets are rebuilding), but having a surplus of picks/young talent, allows teams to target big-time players through trades. Coincidentally, this franchise(Rockets) did that in acquiring Tracy McGrady(a superstar in 2004). My final point, is that small-mid markets WILL NEVER be able to draw FA like NY/Chicago/LA.  Simply because, small-mid markets aren't AS DESIRABLE like NY/Chicago/LA. However, they can get a type A talent through the draft, or by stockpiling on picks/young talent to TRADE for a type A talent.

So let's just end the "small markets can't win" nonsense. 

All of that, just fantastic stuff. You say 10 good players out of 3 years of non-lotto picks... that's not exactly a great percentage there. And why can't we rule out a player until his 3rd or 4th year? Where's that in the rules? Sure, it's possible, but do you actually think Jordan Hill will develop into a rotation player on a playoff team?, do you think Thabeet will pan out? Do you know anything about Motiejunas' game? I'll give you Lee, he's solid right now, but like I said, not that young. Sure, they could have "potential" but I'm speaking directly to this team right now.
You're not telling me anything I haven't said or agreed with. I directly say in there, I see what you're saying and in theory it works, but I'm speaking about the Rockets specifically as the model to follow and the benchmark. I know small markets aren't desirable, I've been repeating that myself the last few pages, but using the Rockets as an example of "small markets can't win" is illogical right now, because they haven't won using this  benchmark model you've described. 

Like I've said, when the Rockets trade their young "talent" for an established star and/or a higher pick and he pans out.. then I absolutely agree with you, but they haven't done that yet and I don't think their players are all that appealing at this point.

 

[dade b0y]

Hard cap or soft cap, small market or large, your terrible team will still be terrible due to it's inept management(owner and/or GM).

People love to have scapegoats, someone or something on the outside to blame so they don't have to come to terms with the fact that the reason their team is unsuccessful has very little to do with outside forces and everything to do with those making the decisions for their team.

 

[dade b0y]

Hard cap or soft cap, small market or large, your terrible team will still be terrible due to it's inept management(owner and/or GM).

People love to have scapegoats, someone or something on the outside to blame so they don't have to come to terms with the fact that the reason their team is unsuccessful has very little to do with outside forces and everything to do with those making the decisions for their team.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Dade B0Y

Hard cap or soft cap, small market or large, your terrible team will still be terrible due to it's inept management(owner and/or GM).

People love to have scapegoats, someone or something on the outside to blame so they don't have to come to terms with the fact that the reason their team is unsuccessful has very little to do with outside forces and everything to do with those making the decisions for their team.

Agreed. 

See I don't think the hard cap, soft cap, big cap, small cap will matter.  If all 30 teams have 50 mil to spend evenly, then GM's, agents, players, etc will find ways around it.  And it will be things like taking less money, to play where they want.  Colusion or whatever is trending now.  The Pacers won't magically get better because of some cap.  No freaking way.  clippers won't start dominating because of a cap.  So if your team sucks, it's going to suck.  Now, the turnover period for teams may be quicker, instead of sucking for 9 years, you may get back in 5, that I could see happening, but still gonna take smart GM's with good plans.  If the Bucks have 35 million to spend, but no players to play with, why go there?  If the Bucks have saaaaay a John Wall type kid, and then 2 lottery picks next year, plus 35 mil, now you have a shot at signing some folks.  I'm simplifying, but you see what I'm getting at. 

Memphis was once a laughing stock, and now they have a legit shot at doing something, and at least attempting to bring guys in later.  That's a start, and you build from there.  A place like Indiana, @#$% they could have had a chance, they just went into the stands and blew it.  But after the Reggie era, they should have tried to rebuild a little better and kept guys coming in there. 

Allen, you said no kids would go home in the midwest, but plenty of NBA'ers are from Memphis, Indy, Ohio St, Kansas, Michigan, etc.  I don't see why it's impossible for at least a few of them to go back and play near there someday.  Maybe someday they will, I don't have the time to go thru everyone and look.  

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Dade B0Y

Hard cap or soft cap, small market or large, your terrible team will still be terrible due to it's inept management(owner and/or GM).

People love to have scapegoats, someone or something on the outside to blame so they don't have to come to terms with the fact that the reason their team is unsuccessful has very little to do with outside forces and everything to do with those making the decisions for their team.

Agreed. 

See I don't think the hard cap, soft cap, big cap, small cap will matter.  If all 30 teams have 50 mil to spend evenly, then GM's, agents, players, etc will find ways around it.  And it will be things like taking less money, to play where they want.  Colusion or whatever is trending now.  The Pacers won't magically get better because of some cap.  No freaking way.  clippers won't start dominating because of a cap.  So if your team sucks, it's going to suck.  Now, the turnover period for teams may be quicker, instead of sucking for 9 years, you may get back in 5, that I could see happening, but still gonna take smart GM's with good plans.  If the Bucks have 35 million to spend, but no players to play with, why go there?  If the Bucks have saaaaay a John Wall type kid, and then 2 lottery picks next year, plus 35 mil, now you have a shot at signing some folks.  I'm simplifying, but you see what I'm getting at. 

Memphis was once a laughing stock, and now they have a legit shot at doing something, and at least attempting to bring guys in later.  That's a start, and you build from there.  A place like Indiana, @#$% they could have had a chance, they just went into the stands and blew it.  But after the Reggie era, they should have tried to rebuild a little better and kept guys coming in there. 

Allen, you said no kids would go home in the midwest, but plenty of NBA'ers are from Memphis, Indy, Ohio St, Kansas, Michigan, etc.  I don't see why it's impossible for at least a few of them to go back and play near there someday.  Maybe someday they will, I don't have the time to go thru everyone and look.  

  

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by Nike Jordan

Toronto is far from a small market.

Just sayin'.

It's like the clippers. A team in a big market that doesn't really matter and is treated like a small market

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by Nike Jordan

Toronto is far from a small market.

Just sayin'.

It's like the clippers. A team in a big market that doesn't really matter and is treated like a small market

 

[Clyde Frog]

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 

I don't know about anybody else but my point is that good management can overcome the limitations of a small market. the problem with the Bucks is that Michael Redd was taking up 96 mill in the first place. you're talking about a team that had Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, Glen Robinson and Mike Redd all on one team and then in the same breath saying the system is flawed and small markets aren't given a chance. Stern wants to make it so that anyone rich enough can buy a team and be guaranteed to at least break even which would be the worst thing for the quality of the game. it would invite a bunch of clowns that don't care about basketball as long as they make a profit...there are enough Donald Sterlings as is. there are all kinds of restrictions on who can play in the league but anyone with enough money can buy a team and run a franchise into the ground while laughing to the bank. and now they want to make it so that guys who are even less qualified and interested in basketball are able to go and swim in the pool of money. if you're buying into the illusion that the owners are in it to "fix the game" (after one of it's most successful seasons ever with Dallas, Memphis and OKC going deep into the playoffs....what's to fix?) then I don't know what to tell you. 

You're right about Stern letting any doofus control any team and drilling it into the ground no denying that. Like I said to CP, its Stern and certain Owners, against small market owners, against the players. The whole situation is !@!%$#. The good management argument is a very good one. Your gonna give certain teams opportunites that other teams cant have but tell them to overcome it by having better management? How about all teams have the same opportunities and then see where management takes ya. 

 

[Clyde Frog]

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 

I don't know about anybody else but my point is that good management can overcome the limitations of a small market. the problem with the Bucks is that Michael Redd was taking up 96 mill in the first place. you're talking about a team that had Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, Glen Robinson and Mike Redd all on one team and then in the same breath saying the system is flawed and small markets aren't given a chance. Stern wants to make it so that anyone rich enough can buy a team and be guaranteed to at least break even which would be the worst thing for the quality of the game. it would invite a bunch of clowns that don't care about basketball as long as they make a profit...there are enough Donald Sterlings as is. there are all kinds of restrictions on who can play in the league but anyone with enough money can buy a team and run a franchise into the ground while laughing to the bank. and now they want to make it so that guys who are even less qualified and interested in basketball are able to go and swim in the pool of money. if you're buying into the illusion that the owners are in it to "fix the game" (after one of it's most successful seasons ever with Dallas, Memphis and OKC going deep into the playoffs....what's to fix?) then I don't know what to tell you. 

You're right about Stern letting any doofus control any team and drilling it into the ground no denying that. Like I said to CP, its Stern and certain Owners, against small market owners, against the players. The whole situation is !@!%$#. The good management argument is a very good one. Your gonna give certain teams opportunites that other teams cant have but tell them to overcome it by having better management? How about all teams have the same opportunities and then see where management takes ya. 

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 


Big J, may I present to you exhibit B? 

What a bunch of @#$%^&* @#$%^&^%  Cry me a God damn river dude, the Packers win, the Brewers win, how?  Smart moves, wise drafts.  Period.  You can make excuses about NBA players, cold winters, etc etc.  Yeah great.  Bottom line, if you get Lebron with the #1 instead of Bogut, suddenly the Bucks are a player.  It's that simple.  Are they done?  No, of course not, they still have a lot of work to do with Lebron, but they are in it. 

Look at you, you cryin about havin NINETY SIX MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! 

  Redd broke down, oh well, nobody told ya'll to sign that deal.  How the @#$% you gonna blame your market on that deal?  Serious? 

Let me see if I'm catchin you right, NBA players are prima donnas, but other athletes work hard at their craft.  That what you sayin?  NFL guys work HARD, and NBA guys are a bunch of tools.  Something like that? 

Tell me, why should the Lakers give money for their tv deal to the Bucks?  Why exactly is that?  Should we give your team money for our beer concessions?  Jersey sales?  Ticket prices?  Should the Bucks get that money as well?  If I buy a Laker hat, should some of that money go to the Bucks too?  So you can give 96 million to Michael Redd? 

Ok, that sounds awfully fair now.  Glad you came in to show me the light, I'm a changed man now. 

 


Big J, you were saying dude.........? 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 


Big J, may I present to you exhibit B? 

What a bunch of @#$%^&* @#$%^&^%  Cry me a God damn river dude, the Packers win, the Brewers win, how?  Smart moves, wise drafts.  Period.  You can make excuses about NBA players, cold winters, etc etc.  Yeah great.  Bottom line, if you get Lebron with the #1 instead of Bogut, suddenly the Bucks are a player.  It's that simple.  Are they done?  No, of course not, they still have a lot of work to do with Lebron, but they are in it. 

Look at you, you cryin about havin NINETY SIX MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! 

  Redd broke down, oh well, nobody told ya'll to sign that deal.  How the @#$% you gonna blame your market on that deal?  Serious? 

Let me see if I'm catchin you right, NBA players are prima donnas, but other athletes work hard at their craft.  That what you sayin?  NFL guys work HARD, and NBA guys are a bunch of tools.  Something like that? 

Tell me, why should the Lakers give money for their tv deal to the Bucks?  Why exactly is that?  Should we give your team money for our beer concessions?  Jersey sales?  Ticket prices?  Should the Bucks get that money as well?  If I buy a Laker hat, should some of that money go to the Bucks too?  So you can give 96 million to Michael Redd? 

Ok, that sounds awfully fair now.  Glad you came in to show me the light, I'm a changed man now. 

 


Big J, you were saying dude.........? 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

Your favorite team traded Dirk for a player nicknamed "Tractor".  Market made you do that?  Guys nicknamed Tractor don't usually balloon up to 350 pounds do they?  You knew you  wouldn't be able to pay Dirk someday?  Really liked the kid, but figured it would be better to have the guy that would be out of the league in a couple years, ya know, cuz it would cost less probably, help ya save up that 96 million for Redd. 

These darn unfair NBA rules that are out there, maaaaaan.  Life is so unfair sometimes.  If only a dumb GM could work in a big market and show people that failure happens everywhere, hi Isiah, and that their little teams do have hope.  If only........

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Jay02

Your favorite team traded Dirk for a player nicknamed "Tractor".  Market made you do that?  Guys nicknamed Tractor don't usually balloon up to 350 pounds do they?  You knew you  wouldn't be able to pay Dirk someday?  Really liked the kid, but figured it would be better to have the guy that would be out of the league in a couple years, ya know, cuz it would cost less probably, help ya save up that 96 million for Redd. 

These darn unfair NBA rules that are out there, maaaaaan.  Life is so unfair sometimes.  If only a dumb GM could work in a big market and show people that failure happens everywhere, hi Isiah, and that their little teams do have hope.  If only........

  

 

[PatRiley]

Expert: Virtually No Correlation Between Payroll And Win Percentage
Oct 12, 2011 11:41 AM EDT


As the NBA league office continues the lockout in an apparent bid to create more parity among teams, a professor of economics at Smith College who has studied the issue says there is almost no relationship between the size of a team's payroll and its success.

“The statistical correlation between payroll and win percentage is practically nonexistent,

 

[PatRiley]

Expert: Virtually No Correlation Between Payroll And Win Percentage
Oct 12, 2011 11:41 AM EDT


As the NBA league office continues the lockout in an apparent bid to create more parity among teams, a professor of economics at Smith College who has studied the issue says there is almost no relationship between the size of a team's payroll and its success.

“The statistical correlation between payroll and win percentage is practically nonexistent,

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, so I just spent some time looking at their drafts, the Bucks traded Dirk, picked one pick before Hedo, passed on Boozer, traded out of the exact spot that Josh Smith went, took Bogut in the Chris Paul-Deron Williams draft, the following year traded out of a pick that could have netted Rondo, didn't take Noah, and on and on and on.........


Market size tho, that woulda fixed all that, smarter, wiser moves if only a few more families live in Wisconsin. 

That's years and years of stupidity, not the size of your market.  Find another excuse. 

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, so I just spent some time looking at their drafts, the Bucks traded Dirk, picked one pick before Hedo, passed on Boozer, traded out of the exact spot that Josh Smith went, took Bogut in the Chris Paul-Deron Williams draft, the following year traded out of a pick that could have netted Rondo, didn't take Noah, and on and on and on.........


Market size tho, that woulda fixed all that, smarter, wiser moves if only a few more families live in Wisconsin. 

That's years and years of stupidity, not the size of your market.  Find another excuse. 

 

[everysingletime]

Well, this is the most entertaining S&T has been in a while.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Jay02

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 

Big J, may I present to you exhibit B? 

What a bunch of @#$%^&* @#$%^&^%  Cry me a God damn river dude, the Packers win, the Brewers win, how?  Smart moves, wise drafts.  Period.  You can make excuses about NBA players, cold winters, etc etc.  Yeah great.  Bottom line, if you get Lebron with the #1 instead of Bogut, suddenly the Bucks are a player.  It's that simple.  Are they done?  No, of course not, they still have a lot of work to do with Lebron, but they are in it. 

Look at you, you cryin about havin NINETY SIX MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! 

  Redd broke down, oh well, nobody told ya'll to sign that deal.  How the @#$% you gonna blame your market on that deal?  Serious? 

Let me see if I'm catchin you right, NBA players are prima donnas, but other athletes work hard at their craft.  That what you sayin?  NFL guys work HARD, and NBA guys are a bunch of tools.  Something like that? 

Tell me, why should the Lakers give money for their tv deal to the Bucks?  Why exactly is that?  Should we give your team money for our beer concessions?  Jersey sales?  Ticket prices?  Should the Bucks get that money as well?  If I buy a Laker hat, should some of that money go to the Bucks too?  So you can give 96 million to Michael Redd? 

Ok, that sounds awfully fair now.  Glad you came in to show me the light, I'm a changed man now. 

 


Big J, you were saying dude.........? 

  
The Bucks potentially get Lebron for what? So he can leave because being a celebrity is more important than being a ball player? Its hard to draft and develop when you gots guys demanding where they wanna be drafted. You damn well know its the same story every year, is this person gonna wanna play for this team. Too many times I hear about players not wanting to come to Milwaukee, denying workout invitations and what not. So YES you did catch me right, the NBA is full of a ton of tools. Anyone who cant see this is friggin blind. Again people dont realize any of this due to fan bias (most likely your case), because they dont know what real basketball is, or they are having too much fun arguing who is better Kobe or Lebron so they d ride them to any city they go to. Like why the hell do i go to bucks games and hear cheering when Kobe hits a GW shot. Sterns got these fans brainwashed. 
Perhaps we signed Redd to that contract because thats what the market limited us to. Player A went to New York, Player B went to LA, Player C went to Miami, Players D and E also went to new york, player F also goes to LA. Milwaukees only chance is to get Player O with the money they have.

As of now, compared to other pro sports leagues, the NBA lags far behind when it comes to sharing the wealth. Major League Baseball teams share around $450 million annually. In the NFL, teams share about 80% of all revenue from media deals, national sponsorships and merchandise sales, along with 34% of ticket sales after the home team has collected 66% of the gate. That has allowed the Green Bay Packers to continue to thrive in a league with the Giants and Jets and other major-market teams.

But in the NBA, the Lakers and Knicks get to keep all of their revenue from ticket sales and broadcast revenues, giving them an enormous advantage over small-market teams.

Like all 32 NFL teams, the Packers depend on the league's national revenues, shared equally. The Packers' piece of the league's $4.2 billion in TV deals is $131 million, or 51% of Green Bay's revenues last year. As a member of the NFL's ten-person executive committee, Murphy knew his top priority was making sure the revenue-sharing regimen didn't get diluted during summer negotiations among owners.

Tell me CP do like parity in sports or no? How can you like the NBA and the NFL when they are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Ik its gonna be tough for you but for one second your not a Laker fan. Do you wanna see the same 4 teams in the conference finals every year, or do you wanna go into the year saying wow theres alot of good teams, any one of them could win this year.
The NBA needs more revenue sharing its that simple. Small market teams should have the same opportunities as big markets and it should be up to management from there. Thats not the case in the NBA, the small market teams management are severely limited to what they can manage while the big market teams try to find what mix of superstars will work the best.

Arguing with a Laker fan on this topic 

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by Jay02

What are you talking 96 million opened up? Where are you getting that number from? Over how many years?

Redd had a 96 million dollar contract over 7 years that just expired this past season. When he got that contract I knew he wasnt worth that much from the beginning but the point is now that its gone the Bucks simply dont have anything to do with it. We have 0 chance at getting anyone who is actually worth that much money. It's frustrating as hell...The NBA has serious issues. These players care about everything but basketball. Coaching is irrelevant, the stars walk all over them. The Bucks have Skiles? A hard #+!? Even more reason not to go there, cause he actually coaches. Only warm weather 3-4 months out of the year? Not happening..Does Milwaukee help my odds of getting into a GQ magazine, advertise my shoeline, let me play in front of Spike, Jack, and Lil Wayne so I can hit up the after party with them after the game? Nope, not going there. These players are all egotistical squares and its ruining basketball. They look at every incentive to play somewhere thats anything but related to basketball. The only chance a small market team has is if they get the first or second pick in a rigged draft and land a high character person like Rose or Durant, two types of personalities that are very rare to come by. I get that your a Lakers fan so you get to cheer on a stacked team year in and year out, but think of how it is to love the game of basketball while knowing your hometown team will never have the advantages that the rest get. And Stern the commissioner is the one letting this happen. The NBA sucks, its a terribly run league with 0 parity, egotistical self righteous **** holes for players, and it will always be that way unless something is done about it. Why do you think the NFL is great? Every player plays to EARN the contract, and EARN the spot on the team. Every player is humbled for the fact that they are in the NFL period. The freaking superbowl champs are a powerhouse and they're located in the middle of a suburb with a population of 30,000 people 

. But no the NBA players think they're entitled to everything they have, and are soo above everyone else including coaching and management that they can pick and choose where they wanna go and Stern encourages this for whatever reason. Its the small market teams that are losing the money. There needs to be a bigger revenue sharing plan. The NFL and MLB distribute the wealth wayyyy more than the NBA. Why do you think the Packers are thriving while theres the Jets and Giants. The revenue is shared. In the NBA, smh..the Lakers signed a 3 billion dollar deal with Time Warner and dont have to share ONE PENNY.  Sorry for the rant but god the NBA grinds my gears. The NBA has more problems than just owners vs players. Its Stern + Owners vs Owners vs Players. 

Big J, may I present to you exhibit B? 

What a bunch of @#$%^&* @#$%^&^%  Cry me a God damn river dude, the Packers win, the Brewers win, how?  Smart moves, wise drafts.  Period.  You can make excuses about NBA players, cold winters, etc etc.  Yeah great.  Bottom line, if you get Lebron with the #1 instead of Bogut, suddenly the Bucks are a player.  It's that simple.  Are they done?  No, of course not, they still have a lot of work to do with Lebron, but they are in it. 

Look at you, you cryin about havin NINETY SIX MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND!!!! 

  Redd broke down, oh well, nobody told ya'll to sign that deal.  How the @#$% you gonna blame your market on that deal?  Serious? 

Let me see if I'm catchin you right, NBA players are prima donnas, but other athletes work hard at their craft.  That what you sayin?  NFL guys work HARD, and NBA guys are a bunch of tools.  Something like that? 

Tell me, why should the Lakers give money for their tv deal to the Bucks?  Why exactly is that?  Should we give your team money for our beer concessions?  Jersey sales?  Ticket prices?  Should the Bucks get that money as well?  If I buy a Laker hat, should some of that money go to the Bucks too?  So you can give 96 million to Michael Redd? 

Ok, that sounds awfully fair now.  Glad you came in to show me the light, I'm a changed man now. 

 


Big J, you were saying dude.........? 

  
The Bucks potentially get Lebron for what? So he can leave because being a celebrity is more important than being a ball player? Its hard to draft and develop when you gots guys demanding where they wanna be drafted. You damn well know its the same story every year, is this person gonna wanna play for this team. Too many times I hear about players not wanting to come to Milwaukee, denying workout invitations and what not. So YES you did catch me right, the NBA is full of a ton of tools. Anyone who cant see this is friggin blind. Again people dont realize any of this due to fan bias (most likely your case), because they dont know what real basketball is, or they are having too much fun arguing who is better Kobe or Lebron so they d ride them to any city they go to. Like why the hell do i go to bucks games and hear cheering when Kobe hits a GW shot. Sterns got these fans brainwashed. 
Perhaps we signed Redd to that contract because thats what the market limited us to. Player A went to New York, Player B went to LA, Player C went to Miami, Players D and E also went to new york, player F also goes to LA. Milwaukees only chance is to get Player O with the money they have.

As of now, compared to other pro sports leagues, the NBA lags far behind when it comes to sharing the wealth. Major League Baseball teams share around $450 million annually. In the NFL, teams share about 80% of all revenue from media deals, national sponsorships and merchandise sales, along with 34% of ticket sales after the home team has collected 66% of the gate. That has allowed the Green Bay Packers to continue to thrive in a league with the Giants and Jets and other major-market teams.

But in the NBA, the Lakers and Knicks get to keep all of their revenue from ticket sales and broadcast revenues, giving them an enormous advantage over small-market teams.

Like all 32 NFL teams, the Packers depend on the league's national revenues, shared equally. The Packers' piece of the league's $4.2 billion in TV deals is $131 million, or 51% of Green Bay's revenues last year. As a member of the NFL's ten-person executive committee, Murphy knew his top priority was making sure the revenue-sharing regimen didn't get diluted during summer negotiations among owners.

Tell me CP do like parity in sports or no? How can you like the NBA and the NFL when they are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Ik its gonna be tough for you but for one second your not a Laker fan. Do you wanna see the same 4 teams in the conference finals every year, or do you wanna go into the year saying wow theres alot of good teams, any one of them could win this year.
The NBA needs more revenue sharing its that simple. Small market teams should have the same opportunities as big markets and it should be up to management from there. Thats not the case in the NBA, the small market teams management are severely limited to what they can manage while the big market teams try to find what mix of superstars will work the best.

Arguing with a Laker fan on this topic 

 

[everysingletime]

Well, this is the most entertaining S&T has been in a while.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Yeah, so I just spent some time looking at their drafts, the Bucks traded Dirk, picked one pick before Hedo, passed on Boozer, traded out of the exact spot that Josh Smith went, took Bogut in the Chris Paul-Deron Williams draft, the following year traded out of a pick that could have netted Rondo, didn't take Noah, and on and on and on.........


Market size tho, that woulda fixed all that, smarter, wiser moves if only a few more families live in Wisconsin. 

That's years and years of stupidity, not the size of your market.  Find another excuse. 

Lol Dirk was a diamond in the roughest of ROUGH. 

 at you calling that bad management. Thats 100 luck on dallas part, and 100% unlucky on the Bucks part. Talented 7 footers are very hard to come by, Bogut was needed. Noah refused to play with Milwaukee back to my OG argument!!

Again though I pose this question Tell me CP do like parity in sports or no? How can you like the NBA and the NFL when they are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Ik its gonna be tough for you but for one second your not a Laker fan. Do you wanna see the same 4 teams in the conference finals every year, or do you wanna go into the year saying wow theres alot of good teams, any one of them could win this year.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]f you prefer watching the same 4 teams at the end of the year that I cant argue that. Thats what you prefer. Personally I find that boring hence the reason the NFL is so great.
[/font]

 

[Clyde Frog]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Yeah, so I just spent some time looking at their drafts, the Bucks traded Dirk, picked one pick before Hedo, passed on Boozer, traded out of the exact spot that Josh Smith went, took Bogut in the Chris Paul-Deron Williams draft, the following year traded out of a pick that could have netted Rondo, didn't take Noah, and on and on and on.........


Market size tho, that woulda fixed all that, smarter, wiser moves if only a few more families live in Wisconsin. 

That's years and years of stupidity, not the size of your market.  Find another excuse. 

Lol Dirk was a diamond in the roughest of ROUGH. 

 at you calling that bad management. Thats 100 luck on dallas part, and 100% unlucky on the Bucks part. Talented 7 footers are very hard to come by, Bogut was needed. Noah refused to play with Milwaukee back to my OG argument!!

Again though I pose this question Tell me CP do like parity in sports or no? How can you like the NBA and the NFL when they are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Ik its gonna be tough for you but for one second your not a Laker fan. Do you wanna see the same 4 teams in the conference finals every year, or do you wanna go into the year saying wow theres alot of good teams, any one of them could win this year.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]f you prefer watching the same 4 teams at the end of the year that I cant argue that. Thats what you prefer. Personally I find that boring hence the reason the NFL is so great.
[/font]

 

[2morrowbegins2day]

What's the difference between a hard cap and a soft cap?